[Aptorian]

I've begun watching Dragon Ball Z. I've never watched more than a handful of episodes and a bunch of clips on youtube before now. I decided to finally get into the show after Giant Bomb started a podcast on Dragon Ball Z after Dragon Ball Fighter Z came out. Two of them are watching 5 episodes a week.

https://www.giantbom...u-01/1600-2218/

It's fun because, like me, they've never really been into the show. But they're enjoying it quite a bit.

They're watching Dragon Ball Kai, which I believe is a sort of re-edited version that has been updated a bit. I'm watching a restored version of the original run I borrowed from a friend, so the episodes I am watching seem to be a slightly off from theirs.

However it's surprisingly good. All the episodes I've ever seen have consisted off people standing around taunting one another while they power up. There's a bit of that in the opening episodes where the first Sayian warrior comes to Earth, but the rest so far have been surprisingly good. I'm about 18 episodes in and the show has really pulled me in. This is a real fantasy show. Goku is travelling through Heaven and Hell, while his son Gohan is on an epic childhood adventure. It's really fun and weird and oddly inventive.

I don't understand who half the cast is or what they are doing but it sure is entertaining.

Do any of you think it will be worth it to stop after the first season and go back and watch the first Dragon Ball show if I can find them some where? I feel like it would go a long way towards appreciating all these strange characters, like the old lecherous guy, the three eyed guy, the weird racist black face arabian, the little china doll guy, etc.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

I've begun watching Dragon Ball Z. I've never watched more than a handful of episodes and a bunch of clips on youtube before now. I decided to finally get into the show after Giant Bomb started a podcast on Dragon Ball Z after Dragon Ball Fighter Z came out. Two of them are watching 5 episodes a week.

https://www.giantbom...u-01/1600-2218/

It's fun because, like me, they've never really been into the show. But they're enjoying it quite a bit.

They're watching Dragon Ball Kai, which I believe is a sort of re-edited version that has been updated a bit. I'm watching a restored version of the original run I borrowed from a friend, so the episodes I am watching seem to be a slightly off from theirs.

However it's surprisingly good. All the episodes I've ever seen have consisted off people standing around taunting one another while they power up. There's a bit of that in the opening episodes where the first Sayian warrior comes to Earth, but the rest so far have been surprisingly good. I'm about 18 episodes in and the show has really pulled me in. This is a real fantasy show. Goku is travelling through Heaven and Hell, while his son Gohan is on an epic childhood adventure. It's really fun and weird and oddly inventive.

I don't understand who half the cast is or what they are doing but it sure is entertaining.

Do any of you think it will be worth it to stop after the first season and go back and watch the first Dragon Ball show if I can find them some where? I feel like it would go a long way towards appreciating all these strange characters, like the old lecherous guy, the three eyed guy, the weird racist black face arabian, the little china doll guy, etc.

Oh apt, so much to cover here. First off welcome to the goodness. DBZ is the reason I got into anime in the first place, You unlock a lot just following the show.

Ok as you know the best place to start is Dragon ball. Yes, half the cast, if not a full 80% of them are initially introduced in that show but I wouldn't worry too much. I'd look up a summary on youtube and then just stick with DBZ because in all honesty that's where the fun really started.

You will get a whole bunch of Tropes thrown at you in the first season. Here's what you need to know to enjoy the show.

1. There ALWAYS a stronger opponent. ALWAYS.
2. Fights can last nearly 20 episodes. not because they are long, more because there's a lot going on away from the fights, the show tries to build tension this way, not always successfully.
3. The Dragonballs are McGuffins that allow wishes. as a result, expect some plot saves and just roll with it.


As for the Dragon ball Kai vs Dragonball Z argument, I found Kai was decent, although I think if you intend to move on to Dragon ball Super I'd suggest you stick with the original and maybe attempt Dragonball GT for comparison.

Where are you at now?

As an aside:

I am not sure if this is wise to suggest this early in your watch but a great place to go back to after watching the original run is Teamfourstars Dragonball Z abridged on youtube. You will thank me.

[worry]

All you need to know the back story is:

[Aptorian]

I've actually watched quite a few of the abridged comedy versions of Dragon Ball Z on youtube. They're hilarious.

I am happy to skip the original Dragon Ball episodes considering there's 9 seasons of Dragon Ball Z + what ever else comes after. I just imagine, from what we hear in the opening episodes, that what ever contest that took place would be cool to see. It feels like there's this epic rivalry between Goku and Picolo that we are seeing the tail end of in the start of the show.

Am I right in understanding that Picolo is an evil version of Wise elder picolo guy on that floating temple thing? Actually come to think of it, what is Picolo? Are there some kind of green bug people on Earth or are they Aliens?

[JPK]

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 10:01 PM, said:

Am I right in understanding that Picolo is an evil version of Wise elder picolo guy on that floating temple thing? Actually come to think of it, what is Picolo? Are there some kind of green bug people on Earth or are they Aliens?

Piccolo and Kami are closely linked, but there's a bit more to it than good and evil versions. They cover their exact relationship during an arc not super far in.

They are indeed aliens - Namekian to be exact. You'll see MUCH more of that race before long.

This post has been edited by JPK: 17 February 2018 - 10:20 PM

[D'rek]

Cool!

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

They're watching Dragon Ball Kai, which I believe is a sort of re-edited version that has been updated a bit. I'm watching a restored version of the original run I borrowed from a friend, so the episodes I am watching seem to be a slightly off from theirs.

Kai or remastered DBZ, I think you're fine either way. There's some sections of DBZ that you might find overly long, but it's really not *that* bad, and I think maybe the parts where they re-used a lot of animation got re-done in the remastered version so that's no longer a problem either way. Stick with DBZ for now, you can always switch over to Kai later.

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

I don't understand who half the cast is or what they are doing but it sure is entertaining.

Do any of you think it will be worth it to stop after the first season and go back and watch the first Dragon Ball show if I can find them some where? I feel like it would go a long way towards appreciating all these strange characters, like the old lecherous guy, the three eyed guy, the weird racist black face arabian, the little china doll guy, etc.

...

I am happy to skip the original Dragon Ball episodes considering there's 9 seasons of Dragon Ball Z + what ever else comes after. I just imagine, from what we hear in the opening episodes, that what ever contest that took place would be cool to see. It feels like there's this epic rivalry between Goku and Picolo that we are seeing the tail end of in the start of the show.

Yeah, the original Dragon Ball is quite long, and most of it is a very different show from DBZ. The original is much more of a roaming adventure comedy, with even a lot of the martial arts fights being more comedy than serious (e.g. there's one tournament opponent who no one can beat because he smells so bad, until Krillin beats him because he has no nose). Around the last couple seasons of original Dragon Ball there's a time-skip and for those last few arcs things take a more dramatic turn with bigger stakes, character deaths, etc. Then Dragon Ball Z keeps that tone with serious fights against world-threatening villains and such.

If you don't want to watch the original, I can write up a quick summary of the characters and plots from the original that are relevant to DBZ without any spoilers for DBZ.

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

Am I right in understanding that Picolo is an evil version of Wise elder picolo guy on that floating temple thing? Actually come to think of it, what is Picolo? Are there some kind of green bug people on Earth or are they Aliens?

Earth always has a Guardian, or God, who lives on the Lookout (the floaty temple thing) and tries their best to watch over and protect the Earth. Hundreds of years ago there was a powerful green creature that was the apprentice of the current Guardian. The Guardian wanted to appoint this nameless green creature as his successor, but found that the green guy was too selfish and corruptable. So green guy did a bunch of meditation and tried to prise away his own vices, which worked but he ended up splitting his whole body and personality into two people - King Piccolo (evil) and Kami (good).

Since they are the same person split in two, if either Kami or King Piccolo were to die, the other would also die. Furthermore, Kami is the one who created the dragon balls, and if he dies the dragon balls disappear.

Kami became the new Guardian, but King Piccolo went on a rampage destroying entire civilizations. Eventually, Master Mutaito (the martial arts master of Master Roshi, among others) sealed away King Piccolo before himself dying.

Three hundred years later, during Dragon Ball, King Piccolo breaks out of his seal and tries to conquer the Earth again. Eventually he is killed by Goku, with help from Kami and the other characters. With the last of his lifeforce, King Piccolo created Piccolo Jr, a pseudo-son/reincarnation of himself.

With Piccolo Jr being a pseudo-reincarnation of King Piccolo, now Kami and Piccolo Jr are bonded and will die if the other one dies. Piccolo Jr isn't as automatically evil as his father/previous incarnation was, though. He has his own personality, though at the start he was pretty much just always out for revenge against Goku and the others because they killed his "dad".

As for what are they - there's no other green antenna people like Kami/Piccolo on Earth. In Dragon Ball they're just called some kind of demon, but this is sort of retconned later in DBZ.

[Abyss]

95% of DBZ, summarized:

Bad Guy: I am bad and will do bad things.
Good Guys: We will stop you.
*everybody screams for seventeen episodes, powers up a lot, good guys win*

[Aptorian]

D, on 17 February 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

Cool!

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

They're watching Dragon Ball Kai, which I believe is a sort of re-edited version that has been updated a bit. I'm watching a restored version of the original run I borrowed from a friend, so the episodes I am watching seem to be a slightly off from theirs.

Kai or remastered DBZ, I think you're fine either way. There's some sections of DBZ that you might find overly long, but it's really not *that* bad, and I think maybe the parts where they re-used a lot of animation got re-done in the remastered version so that's no longer a problem either way. Stick with DBZ for now, you can always switch over to Kai later.

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

I don't understand who half the cast is or what they are doing but it sure is entertaining.

Do any of you think it will be worth it to stop after the first season and go back and watch the first Dragon Ball show if I can find them some where? I feel like it would go a long way towards appreciating all these strange characters, like the old lecherous guy, the three eyed guy, the weird racist black face arabian, the little china doll guy, etc.

...

I am happy to skip the original Dragon Ball episodes considering there's 9 seasons of Dragon Ball Z + what ever else comes after. I just imagine, from what we hear in the opening episodes, that what ever contest that took place would be cool to see. It feels like there's this epic rivalry between Goku and Picolo that we are seeing the tail end of in the start of the show.

Yeah, the original Dragon Ball is quite long, and most of it is a very different show from DBZ. The original is much more of a roaming adventure comedy, with even a lot of the martial arts fights being more comedy than serious (e.g. there's one tournament opponent who no one can beat because he smells so bad, until Krillin beats him because he has no nose). Around the last couple seasons of original Dragon Ball there's a time-skip and for those last few arcs things take a more dramatic turn with bigger stakes, character deaths, etc. Then Dragon Ball Z keeps that tone with serious fights against world-threatening villains and such.

If you don't want to watch the original, I can write up a quick summary of the characters and plots from the original that are relevant to DBZ without any spoilers for DBZ.

Alternative Goose, on 17 February 2018 - 07:10 PM, said:

Am I right in understanding that Picolo is an evil version of Wise elder picolo guy on that floating temple thing? Actually come to think of it, what is Picolo? Are there some kind of green bug people on Earth or are they Aliens?

Earth always has a Guardian, or God, who lives on the Lookout (the floaty temple thing) and tries their best to watch over and protect the Earth. Hundreds of years ago there was a powerful green creature that was the apprentice of the current Guardian. The Guardian wanted to appoint this nameless green creature as his successor, but found that the green guy was too selfish and corruptable. So green guy did a bunch of meditation and tried to prise away his own vices, which worked but he ended up splitting his whole body and personality into two people - King Piccolo (evil) and Kami (good).

Since they are the same person split in two, if either Kami or King Piccolo were to die, the other would also die. Furthermore, Kami is the one who created the dragon balls, and if he dies the dragon balls disappear.

Kami became the new Guardian, but King Piccolo went on a rampage destroying entire civilizations. Eventually, Master Mutaito (the martial arts master of Master Roshi, among others) sealed away King Piccolo before himself dying.

Three hundred years later, during Dragon Ball, King Piccolo breaks out of his seal and tries to conquer the Earth again. Eventually he is killed by Goku, with help from Kami and the other characters. With the last of his lifeforce, King Piccolo created Piccolo Jr, a pseudo-son/reincarnation of himself.

With Piccolo Jr being a pseudo-reincarnation of King Piccolo, now Kami and Piccolo Jr are bonded and will die if the other one dies. Piccolo Jr isn't as automatically evil as his father/previous incarnation was, though. He has his own personality, though at the start he was pretty much just always out for revenge against Goku and the others because they killed his "dad".

As for what are they - there's no other green antenna people like Kami/Piccolo on Earth. In Dragon Ball they're just called some kind of demon, but this is sort of retconned later in DBZ.

Wait, if either Kami or Piccolo die, then the other dies? But Goku killed original King Piccolo. So why didn't Kami die? Was it because King Piccolo re-incarnated into Piccolo Light?

This also sounds strange. Is Kami then an ascended God of Earth? He doesn't seem very god like. Currently he's training a bunch of rejects to attempt to fight (delay) the Sayian warriors coming to Earth. If he really is a god and (if I understand the correctly) the wish dragons are creations of the guardian, then why doesn't Kami just wish away Vegeta and his buddy?

Or is this one of those "Gods can't directly interfere" things like Raiden in Mortal Kombat?

Abyss, on 18 February 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

95% of DBZ, summarized:

Bad Guy: I am bad and will do bad things.
Good Guys: We will stop you.
*everybody screams for seventeen episodes, powers up a lot, good guys win*

This doesn't actually appear to hold true from what I've seen so far. Maybe it becomes more like that later on but currently the story is pretty varied.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 18 February 2018 - 05:27 AM

[Dolmen 2.0]

Alternative Goose, on 18 February 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

Wait, if either Kami or Piccolo die, then the other dies? But Goku killed original King Piccolo. So why didn't Kami die? Was it because King Piccolo re-incarnated into Piccolo Light?

This also sounds strange. Is Kami then an ascended God of Earth? He doesn't seem very god like. Currently he's training a bunch of rejects to attempt to fight (delay) the Sayian warriors coming to Earth. If he really is a god and (if I understand the correctly) the wish dragons are creations of the guardian, then why doesn't Kami just wish away Vegeta and his buddy?

Or is this one of those "Gods can't directly interfere" things like Raiden in Mortal Kombat?

Think of these guys as cells. One cell splits itself into two cells reducing its ability in half but allowing it to develop twice as fast. Kami did this and then his split half cloned itself preserving its ability. That's what Piccolo is. An important note here is that these guys reproduce asexually.

Piccolo and Kami have a special relationship compared to other Namekians and I think the mantle of 'Kami' has something to do with that. Kami is effectively a guardian deity and is restricted in his action to a certain extent because of this mantle. Piccolo has no such obligation and is free to act.

Kami can provide tools to help the earthbound but not use them for himself. He is in effect just managing these items and their use. Keep in mind there are several rungs of existence and there are different Kami's so yeah, very similar to Raiden. There's also a hierarchy in place with higher level guardians having larger 'jurisdiction'.

[D'rek]

Alternative Goose, on 18 February 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

Wait, if either Kami or Piccolo die, then the other dies? But Goku killed original King Piccolo. So why didn't Kami die? Was it because King Piccolo re-incarnated into Piccolo Light?

King Piccolo created Piccolo Jr at pretty much the same time as he died, so he basically just transferred his essence into Piccolo Jr, and Kami survived because that was still intact.

Alternative Goose, on 18 February 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

This also sounds strange. Is Kami then an ascended God of Earth? He doesn't seem very god like. Currently he's training a bunch of rejects to attempt to fight (delay) the Sayian warriors coming to Earth.

Or is this one of those "Gods can't directly interfere" things like Raiden in Mortal Kombat?

It's a bit of "God doesn't usually directly interfere", a bit of "God only helps those who earn it (i.e. those who can manage to get to The Lookout)", and a bit of "God isn't all that strong, really". Kami's role as Guardian seems to be more about preserving the natural order of things then literal defense of the Earth - there are rooms in The Lookout that manage the flow of time, and Kami can supernaturally see everything happening on the Earth or contact other deity-like creatures, but Goku and Piccolo Jr are both (by the end of Dragon Ball) physically stronger than Kami, as will many of the other fighters be relatively early on in DBZ.

Alternative Goose, on 18 February 2018 - 05:26 AM, said:

If he really is a god and (if I understand the correctly) the wish dragons are creations of the guardian, then why doesn't Kami just wish away Vegeta and his buddy?

There's a few limitations on what wishes Shenron will grant:

--Shenron won't force anything on a creature that is stronger than Kami (which would include the Saiyans)
--He won't revive someone who has died naturally (e.g. from old age or ordinary sickness)
--When they wish for a "multi-res" revival (e.g. "bring back everyone that some villain killed") Shenron will only bring back those who have been dead for a year or less
--He won't revive the same person twice
--After the Dragon Balls are used to summon Shenron (whether you actually make a wish or not), they turn to stone and cannot be used again for one year, though Kami can overwrite this if he feels like it (and Kami definitely won't let this loophole be used for the same group of people to use it twice in one year)

[Maark Abbott]

Rule 1) of DBZ: LORD YAMCHA IS THE ONE TO WHOM WORSHIP MUST BE PAID

[Dolmen 2.0]

Maark Abbott, on 19 February 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

Rule 1) of DBZ: LORD YAMCHA IS THE ONE TO WHOM WORSHIP MUST BE PAID

fairly accurate.

[Maark Abbott]

Dolmen 2.0, on 19 February 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 19 February 2018 - 08:43 AM, said:

Rule 1) of DBZ: LORD YAMCHA IS THE ONE TO WHOM WORSHIP MUST BE PAID

fairly accurate.

Side note: It's surprising how good Tien is in FighterZ considering how often he gets boinked in DBZ.

Android 16 too. Dunk memes for days. D O W N Y O U G O

[D'rek]

Oh, and don't mix up the talking cats. One is an immortal hero of legend who grows beans and loves Yajirobi, the other is a shapeshifter who loves Yamcha.

[Morgoth]

I miss DM. He would know how to respond to all this in an appropriate manner.

[End of Disc One]

Hell yes DBZ. I just started watching Dragon Ball Super.

The version you're watching, I recall it being really good until they changed localization around ~50 episodes in. The voices and music changed, and it was like they stopped editing it. It slowed down a ton, but the show slowly started to find its feet and became quite good again. Still much slower than it was at the start, but good.

I haven't watched Kai. It's a shame they couldn't use the old music because there were some really great songs. But I've heard Kai has a solid soundtrack as well.

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 19 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

[Maark Abbott]

I'm wondering now if we have any Keenan and Cell memes kicking about.

[Aptorian]

I watched through season 1... if you can call it a season, a while ago and it nearly killed me, it was that long. So instead I ordered a copy of the abbreviated Dragonball Kai. I am clearly going to lose some details but I appreciate the fat getting cut away.

Finally started on season 2 with Frieza last week and now I am somewhere around the ending of season 2. Frieza just did his second transformation and shit is getting ridiculous.

Everybody are getting so many power upgrades it's just plain silly. It's entertaining but the rate of power inflation at this point is completely over the top. I wonder if anyone has bothered to do a spreadsheet or graph of the character's capabilities at various power levels and comparing individual characters to later upgraded power levels.

At the start of season 1, vegeta blows up an entire planet just by pointing a finger at it and going bang. Since then Vegeta has approached Super Sayian levels of power. Like, he was around 32,000 now he's in the hundreds of thousands and Picolo and Frieza must be in the millions. What the hell does this even mean.

If a level 32,000 can destroy a planet with a flick of their finger, how the hell does a planet not just evaporate when ever a level 100,000+ actually uses all their power, fires a plasma ball and misses the target?

I mean, are we to believe this is some kind of magical "Non-blowing up" kinda planet? Please. A little consistency here!

Anyway Dragonball is super fun. It's incredibly stupid but it really appeals to the kid in me. If they reached this much power by season 2, what the hell is going on in later seasons? Like, is that Cell character that shows up later on just a God?

[D'rek]

======================================================================================================

Alternative Goose, on 29 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Please. A little consistency here!

Consistency? In Dragon Ball?

Alternative Goose, on 29 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

I watched through season 1... if you can call it a season, a while ago and it nearly killed me, it was that long. So instead I ordered a copy of the abbreviated Dragonball Kai. I am clearly going to lose some details but I appreciate the fat getting cut away.

Probably a good idea. I honestly don't think you'll be missing much.

Alternative Goose, on 29 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Everybody are getting so many power upgrades it's just plain silly. It's entertaining but the rate of power inflation at this point is completely over the top. I wonder if anyone has bothered to do a spreadsheet or graph of the character's capabilities at various power levels and comparing individual characters to later upgraded power levels.

Oh, I'm suuuure there's many spreadsheets/graphs out there.

But yes, it is absolutely ridiculous/silly. And hence, after the Frieza arc you'll see the creators start to drift away from the numeric power levels... because really once you've hit the millions does anyone really feel the impact of 2 million versus 3 million? A billion?

The first bit of Vegeta blowing up the insect planet is apparently filler that wasn't in the original story so canonically Vegeta couldn't actually blow up a whole planet at that time, but by the end of season 2 yeah they can pretty much all blow up a planet if they want to. They just... don't Goku always shoots his kamehameha horizontally or upwards so it doesn't hit the planet and blow it up. Krillin's destructo disk could cut the planet in half, but he doesn't. Etc. They're super-powered, but they also have super control, and magic ki energy's destructive power is contained so it doesn't set the atmosphere on fire or whatever.

Alternative Goose, on 29 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Anyway Dragonball is super fun. It's incredibly stupid but it really appeals to the kid in me. If they reached this much power by season 2, what the hell is going on in later seasons?

Glad to hear you're still enjoying it! It really is stupid but fun!

What's going on in later seasons? Punching people even harder, of course!

Alternative Goose, on 29 April 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

Like, is that Cell character that shows up later on just a God?

No. But Beerus is...

[Morgoth]

Giantbomb have a new podcast, All Systems Goku, which is just Jeff Gerstman and Dan Ryckert (neither of whom have ever watched any anime) watching through Dragonball Kai. It's pretty fun!