[QuickTidal]

Ugh, Hoffman is a pervy, FUCKWAD. Jeezus.

[worry]

Go easy on him, QT.

[Nevyn]

QuickTidal, on 08 December 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

Well, Hoffman has been accused by another woman.

Safe to say these aren't going to be isolated incidents now. If Hoffman wasn't yet on the list of scumbags (he probably already was)...he is now, especially because he refuses to admit wrongdoing.

Yes, this accusation is far worse, far less ambiguous as to his intent and frame of mind, and cast his later behaviour in a much darker light.

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 08 December 2017 - 07:39 PM, said:

Go easy on him, QT.

This is the kind of micro-aggression sexist shit that men in power roles have done for years...and the thing is...in Hoffman's head...he probably thinks this was no big deal and a joke....while this poor woman was traumatized by being treated like this.

If I saw someone do this to a woman in my vicinity, I would call that piece of shit out hard. This is unacceptable.

Also, I'm sad to find out that Ron Perlman (who I respected) came out and said that Oliver should not have used this venue to call out Hoffman's behaviour.

And I'm like "Every other interview or chit chat in Hollywood is 100% scripted/vetted out beforehand". If you think that when a talk show host asks a guest a random question and it seems like a surprise? It's not. It's NEVER a surprise. The actor's manager will root out what questions will and won't be asked. As such, the forum in which Oliver asked Hoffman about it was probably one of the ONLY places he COULD ask that line of questions without having to have it vetted by both the actor and their manager for content beforehand...so that is EXACTLY the place to ask Hoffman about this stuff, otherwise you don't get to the truth.

[worry]

100% with you on that, QT. I mean what other consequences are there going to be? At worst, there's a slim chance that after decades (half a century even) of getting to do the thing he loves, and getting paid millions of dollars for it, and being one of the most honored and respected figures in his field, and having an industry and wider culture devoted to insulating him for all that time from seemingly any consequences for his predation on women/girls, he might have to retire earlier than he wanted to (at the age of 80).

[Mezla PigDog]

amphibian, on 08 December 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Macros, on 08 December 2017 - 06:07 PM, said:

It comes back to the old problem, rich people can afford the fines.

Which is why I put it as a variable percentage. The sliding scale can go pretty high.

The rich getting better results from justice systems is an endemic problem in pretty much any justice system ever invented, so I don't think that's a system killer here.

I'm not sure you have thought through the viewpoint of the victim here. I get sexually assaulted and at the end I get a cash payout? There's a word for receiving cash for sexual favours.... What is it again?

It's more about being heard and taking a predator off the streets I would think.

I haven't read any of the Hoffman stuff but I saw him on a chat show probably around 10 years ago now and he creeped me right out. I haven't been able to watch anything with him in since. Except Tootsie.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 08 December 2017 - 10:45 PM

[amphibian]

What is the proper recompense for being sexually assaulted then?

The cost of speaking up in terms of social effects is massive for a survivor of sexual assault, especially when it's within a professional field or personal circle. Doors close, people shut the survivor out, and the past, present, and future existence of the person is questioned, assessed, and fought over. The physical costs are long lasting and the emotional/mental costs are also significant.

I wish to mitigate these costs to survivors, to damage offenders, and speed up the all too arduous processes - if the survivor wishes to do so. A parallel track in the criminal justice system is also possible in my model. If the survivors want money, do this track with the option of publicizing the result at the end. If they want the person in prison, go the criminal justice route. If they want both, they can pursue both. A deprivation of liberty will face a higher standard of evidence and almost certainly will take longer to go through the whole process.

My thinking about money is similar to that after disasters happen. The various aid organizations say to not donate things as it takes time and resources to sort, trash, and transport those things. Donate money, so that whatever is needed can be bought fresh and at what time they're needed. A survivor can use the money as needed to get whatever they wish or need.

I also think that prostitution should be legalized and those who wish to engage in it protected with the same laws and spirit used to protect other people.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 08 December 2017 - 11:52 PM

[amphibian]

I should also state that I want there to be zero sexual assault situations ever and am occasionally working through professional and personal avenues to lessen the likelihood of them.

I am an attorney for people who have disabilities in my state and one of the awful parts of the job is facing how many people with disabilities are specifically targeted for sexual assault. The costs that people without significant barriers to daily life have regarding sexual assault are usually magnified for my organization's clients.

It fills us with rage and sadness and desire to work to ensure they never happen, which is a little tilting at windmills, but has to happen.

[Malankazooie]

[Malankazooie]

Whelp, now Mario Batali (celebrity chef) has been accused.

Do you guys think we will see this thing slow down or stop? I mean, I guess there probably is a backlog of decades of this behavior across all professions, right? So this could be the new norm, right?

[amphibian]

I guarantee it will slow and stop. That's how these things go.

But what may be changing is the lessened brunt of social disapproval and fault finding in those who speak up about their harassment, assault, or poor treatment. That's still considerable and not likely to be a non issue anytime soon, but I do think it's a bit easier for people to have these conversations now.

There is a person who existed mostly on the peripheral of my MMA writing circles. Editor, sportswriter etc. Last week I found out he sexually assaulted someone and then intimidated her with a weapon to coerce silence - and that he may have done this before to other people. Really bad stuff. She spoke up only to a degree that a few dozen people knew about it and made it clear that she does not want this to be public beyond backstage discussions and anonymous talks. He's gone offline and is hiding out.

Anyways, I made sure several people in who have hiring/firing sway in my circles knew about the circumstances and he'll never find a job with several companies that are major in that field now. I know that's scant recompense, but it is something and the survivors don't have to be involved for that to happen. I believe her, all those I spoke to believe her, and she is getting the support she wants.

[Abyss]

I'm still waiting for it to penetrate the music industry... Kesha was barely the tip of the iceberg I expect.

[worry]

Yah, I do think it's strangely quiet. Dr. Luke. R. Kelly is always floating there beneath the surface. LA Reid much earlier in the year. But post-Weinstein? A few niche dudes outside of the pop music world (like an opera conductor and some indie notables). And...Melanie Martinez? A particularly awful story, but pre-celebrity and not really industry gatekeeper status even now.

Russell Simmons is a big name, but he's more of a general mogul nowadays anyway.

[Malankazooie]

Yah, one of the members of INXS (are they even relevant anymore?), says he misses the days sexual harassment was taken as a compliment. Google it.

Oh wait here, I'll do it for you: LINK

[Macros]

For some reason I keep thinking Noel Edmunds will be called out

[Abyss]

Malankazooie, on 12 December 2017 - 02:22 AM, said:

Yah, one of the members of INXS (are they even relevant anymore?), says he misses the days sexual harassment was taken as a compliment. Google it.

Oh wait here, I'll do it for you: LINK

No, they aren't. Even less so after the whole 'Rockstar: INXS' farce. Less less with quotes like that.

About the only band from that 'era' still relevant is U2, and i think that has more to do with sheer size and inertia than actual relevance.
(that said if any member of U2 gets called out for this i will die a little inside.)

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 12 December 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

About the only band from that 'era' still relevant is U2, and i think that has more to do with sheer size and inertia than actual relevance.
(that said if any member of U2 gets called out for this i will die a little inside.)

U2 is not really relevant anymore either....they get by on largely Nostalgia. I doubt fans could even name more than a few songs off their last few records, and less "hits".

This was proven with the fact that the last tour revisited Joshua Tree...since that's one of their great albums.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 December 2017 - 04:53 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 December 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 December 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

About the only band from that 'era' still relevant is U2, and i think that has more to do with sheer size and inertia than actual relevance.
(that said if any member of U2 gets called out for this i will die a little inside.)

U2 is not really relevant anymore either....they get by on largely Nostalgia. I doubt fans could even name more than a few songs off their last few records, and less "hits".

This was proven with the fact that the last tour revisited Joshua Tree...since that's one of their great albums.

Heh... i did not even know the last tour revisited The Joshua Tree and i more or less know (knew) that album (and Achtung Baby) by heart.

.

[Malankazooie]

Well, here's a new twist. Morgan Spurlock confessed himself before any women could. Smart move. I suppose he can maybe save face and professional cred doing so. Depending how it works out for him I can see more creeps following his lead.

[Macros]

3 more accusing hoffman