[Darksinister]

Second read through of this book. This time through I have taken some time to really absorb the various characters and how they develop, even over the course of just this book. I have to say SE is a brilliant character writer! Just reading about Trull's ongoing internal battles and how he worries about the fate of the Edur and his family fascinates me. It's seems so well thought out and really gives the Edur story line substance. I really felt for Trull. Throw in Udinass, Seren, Brys and Fear (although not told from his point of view but his internal battles seem obvious) and it really is a epic book.
Tehol ang Bugg just top it off!
Just wondering if anyone else feels the same or if I'm over thinking?

[James Hutton]

 Darksinister, on 20 July 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Second read through of this book. This time through I have taken some time to really absorb the various characters and how they develop, even over the course of just this book. I have to say SE is a brilliant character writer! Just reading about Trull's ongoing internal battles and how he worries about the fate of the Edur and his family fascinates me. It's seems so well thought out and really gives the Edur story line substance. I really felt for Trull. Throw in Udinass, Seren, Brys and Fear (although not told from his point of view but his internal battles seem obvious) and it really is a epic book.
Tehol ang Bugg just top it off!
Just wondering if anyone else feels the same or if I'm over thinking?

Yes, I'm a big fan of SE's character writing. It's like you pulled this piece of text right out of my brain. Abyss, is this your alt?

[Darksinister]

Nope not an alt. The original mate. Glad to see that someone shares my views. Great book.

This post has been edited by Darksinister: 20 July 2017 - 12:35 PM

[Abyss]

 Darksinister, on 20 July 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Second read through of this book. This time through I have taken some time to really absorb the various characters and how they develop, even over the course of just this book. I have to say SE is a brilliant character writer! Just reading about Trull's ongoing internal battles and how he worries about the fate of the Edur and his family fascinates me. It's seems so well thought out and really gives the Edur story line substance. I really felt for Trull. Throw in Udinass, Seren, Brys and Fear (although not told from his point of view but his internal battles seem obvious) and it really is a epic book.
Tehol ang Bugg just top it off!
Just wondering if anyone else feels the same or if I'm over thinking?

Agreed, in fact i think MT was where SE raised his game considerably (which is saying a LOT).
It's a ballsy writer who, five books into a deep deep series, does a massive setting and cast shift, and can still draw readers well entrenched with the existing cast into the whole new one.

 James Hutton, on 20 July 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

Yes, I'm a big fan of SE's character writing. It's like you pulled this piece of text right out of my brain. Abyss, is this your alt?

Keep in mind that some of my alts are semi-independent digitised consciousness nodes who don't actually know they are up until recall is triggered.
Some are also just me drunk.
But no, Darksinister isn't either of those.

Maybe.

 Darksinister, on 20 July 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Nope not an alt. The original mate. Glad to see that someone shares my views. Great book.

Yes, exactly.

As far as you know.

[Darksinister]

Never thought of it like that Abyss but I guess your right. It was a massive shift in the setting. It defiantly paid off. People alway talk about how slow the first 150 pages are but they are needed to set a completely new scene and start the character development. its been a while since I read the last five books. I'm going to take it slow and see if by doing so, it brings hidden traits ( missed by me first time through) out from the main characters. Doing this has made me appreciate MT that much more!
Any tips to finding out if I'm really an Alt? I seem ok to me, but there may me a tell tale sign I'm missing lol.

[Gorefest]

Well,do you like cats?

And do you regularly wake up around 3am with a vague sense of foreboding and unrest, but you're not really sure why?



Of course you're not. Give it no further thought.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 21 July 2017 - 02:15 PM
Reason for edit: Edit? What edit?

[Abberon]

Midnight Tides was one of the best books in the series to me, but I'd have to say that I don't at all agree with SE being a good character writer. He's good at building mystery and anticipation with his characters, but aside from a few exceptions he does very little to provide them with empathetic personalities or insight into their motivations. I'd argue that he barely even tries, at least not until the later books when things start to meander.

I LIKE (perhaps even love) a lot of the characters, but it's in a comic-book sort of way.

This post has been edited by Abberon: 02 August 2017 - 06:23 PM

[nicetrout]

Yeah I agree. He's a good character writer in like broad strokes for the most part, however I actually think in MT is the closest we get (only to TTH r n) to some really fleshed out and interesting characters. I think Trull and Udinaas, Rhulad in someways, are some really interesting characters I adore reading about. I think Udinaas stands out to me as one of the most alive and real people in the series to me, I was very disappointed in how I feel like he is sidelined in RG.

Tehol is I think a better example of SE more typical character style where is fun and we all love him but he is not particular deep or compelling, he is some what just the smart goofy dude who does the smart goofy things. Still love Tehol though, just don't think it's a character study or nothing.

Midnight Tides to me is the strongest entry in the series.

(Once again only on TTH)

[Abberon]

I agree on the Udinaas part. I don't LIKE the character and never really did, but he was at least fundamentally human. The only other one I could compare him to would be Ganoes Paran, at least in GotM before he back MotD.

Where a lot of this comes from is just the writing style and structure. MBotF is absolutely all over the place, with (probably) over a hundred different perspectives branching out in countless directions. SE writes these in a very third-person observer sort of way, rather than on a more typical third-person omniscient basis where you're meant to know exactly what the character is thinking and given as much information about their feelings and memories as necessary. SE ides all of these details and keeps everything a mystery. There are a occasional exceptions, but after reading GotM all the way to the end of DoD, Quick Ben, Kalam, Icarium, Tavore etc. are about as vague as they were when I first encountered them.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just that I think the characters being interesting/mysterious/entertaining/cool is very different from them actually being deep.

[nicetrout]

Totally agreed, I think that's my biggest gripe whenever I criticize the kind of broad characters that many people in MBOTF are. It doesn't mean they are bad or weak, it just means they are not deep. Things can be not deep and still be terrific. Not all books are all things. These books aren't character studies and that's fine.

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

 nicetrout, on 02 August 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

Totally agreed, I think that's my biggest gripe whenever I criticize the kind of broad characters that many people in MBOTF are. It doesn't mean they are bad or weak, it just means they are not deep. Things can be not deep and still be terrific. Not all books are all things. These books aren't character studies and that's fine.

It's hard to dedicate so much space to a single character when there are so many of them that play important roles throughout the series. That has never bothered me, and I don't find the character development weak , it just doesn't depend on long exposition pieces, where we get to know characters from the ground up. Instead, they are defined by their actions.

[Salt-Man Z]

 BlackMoranthofDoom, on 11 September 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

I don't find the character development weak , it just doesn't depend on long exposition pieces, where we get to know characters from the ground up. Instead, they are defined by their actions.

This. SE is almost literally "show don't tell" when it comes to developing characters, which is frankly rather refreshing.

[worry]

Frankly I like that the two main character complaints are "too many characters are thinly drawn" and "too many characters are too deep and insightful, so much philosophizing for the lowly soldier class".