[Galain]

Some thoughts on things from the last couple of days:

Merrid, on 09 June 2017 - 04:48 AM, said:

So looking back, I find that Denul withdrew his vote on Ampelas in a hurry as soon as someone else voted for him.

We know Denul was a vampire. If Amp wasn't on his team, Denul could have let that vote stay and we might have had a day one Amp train. But he withdrew. Which makes me suspicious of Amp.

This would suggest that vampires know each other, which is possible, but something I remain sceptical of. Mainly because, based on my own circumstances, it would make this a town/scum game, *maybe* with a cult mechanic, but definitely not a faction game as advertised. So I think there's more to it than this.

Silchas Ruin, on 09 June 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Thyrllan anything on any other players? I see the direction of your train of thought and its looking a bit skewed.

Here's what I suspect, tell me if you think I am wrong;

Osseric/Gust/Joyce did not know any other player, was as close to ri as we will get this game.

This is based off the show. She was vanilla mortal, nothing special about her.

So anyone defending her would be a bit suspect aka Rashan.

Anyone she attacked/accused/voted for would be a total guess on her part.

Now we know Denul turned out vampire, so we should be looking at connections to him.

Merrid's case looks promising. Yet you dismiss it so easily and claim Amp is what?

I'm wondering if maybe this was why Silchas was killed - it reads like possible last-ditch defending of Ampelas. And, indeed they were, though perhaps unlikely that they knew it. But it's easy to construe - for either side - that Ampelas and Silchas might be in the same faction.

Lock, on 10 June 2017 - 06:19 AM, said:

Kilava, on 10 June 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

Lock, on 09 June 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

I have very reliable information that Nimander is the one responsible for the kill on Silchas Ruin. There is some level of doubt, but not much.

Considering the lack of kills on night 1, the kill on a vamp on night 2, and the death of a townie on night 3 (when I'm pretty sure Nimander did the killing this night), I think lynching him would be a good idea today. Or we don't lynch him, perhaps Buffy can practice her arts on Nimander tonight.

Even if you're right, who's to say Nimander killing Silchas wasn't just human killing human blundering?

Then our lynching Nimander would just compound the problem and leave us in even worse straits then we're already in.

If Buffy can verify Nimander's faction - great, but that won't be until after the end a day and a night. What do we do in the meantime?

As I said, I'm not certain of anything. But it was information too valuable to waste if I were to die. Regardless, PS tells me I've already said more than I should.

Still, it's impossible for Nimander to be Buffy and no other townie is likely to have a vig. Therefore, it's likely he's scum.

Why is it impossible for Nimander to be Buffy?

Rashan, on 10 June 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Alright I can easily see Nimander as scum

A bit early for gut, and do you really need gut when you're just prodding?

Nimander Golit, on 06 June 2017 - 12:55 PM, said:

Not much is happening so I will follow my gut and prod Ampelas.

vote Ampelas

Needed to express his satisfaction with Denul's death

Nimander Golit, on 08 June 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Boom.

Thyr, why did you vote Osseric D1 but not D2?

This post appears to be serious but is completely useless.

Nimander Golit, on 08 June 2017 - 07:06 PM, said:

You're asking me or telling me?

Lazy vote, 4th on Ampelas bandwagon

Nimander Golit, on 09 June 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

I'd rather have a lynch before timeout, better to go into the freeze with more info. I quite like Merrid's case on Ampelas, it holds up. Ampelas was also my D1 vote, so I'm happy to go back to that.

vote Ampelas

after Denul CFed as Drus I asked about her character in the series, Siclhas replied:

Silchas Ruin, on 08 June 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

I doubt anyone would've known Buffy's mum bar possibly Buffy herself. So Rashan's play is more suspicious. Need to go look at who voted for Denul day one. Drusilla is a main scum faction character

And a few posts later Nimander posts this:

Nimander Golit, on 09 June 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

...
I don't know Buffy lore, so not sure if Drusilla would be the master or a minion.
...

And yesterday this:

Nimander Golit, on 09 June 2017 - 09:59 PM, said:

Well, that could have gone better. Will try to look over the thread during the weekend to check for possible Denul connections. Like I said before, I would expect faction leader to have BP, and Denul died from a Night kill so was probably not the leader. So I want to look for possible signaling and distancing.

Indicating he either missed both my question and Silchas's answer, or he just missed the answer, either way it indicates he doesn't really care for some reason. Not to mention he could've easily googled it in the meantime.

And apparently he doesn't like me either.

@ Rashan: This is really some clutching at straws work here. Nothing you've highlighted above looks definitive in any way whatsoever.

Nimander Golit, on 10 June 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

Now, that's interesting.

Lock, on 09 June 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:

Okay, PS has given me permission to post what I'm going to post. So I'm not breaking the no reveals rule.

I have very reliable information that Nimander is the one responsible for the kill on Silchas Ruin. There is some level of doubt, but not much.

Considering the lack of kills on night 1, the kill on a vamp on night 2, and the death of a townie on night 3 (when I'm pretty sure Nimander did the killing this night), I think lynching him would be a good idea today. Or we don't lynch him, perhaps Buffy can practice her arts on Nimander tonight.

Vote Nimander Golit

If I were to take credit for a Kill, it would not be for Silchas. You might go through my posts, especially early in the game, and notice me alluding to similarities in mechanics between first Buffy game and this one. Now, go re-read the first game, then re-read this one. Look at how the Nights played out so far and connect the dots.

Given the above, I'm sure Lock is a vampire. What still makes me cautious, is the odd timing of the fake reveal. Even if he's the lone vampire left in game (is that a possibility?), there was zero heat on him so far, therefore it reeks of unneeded desperation. Unless, and it's a longshot but the only plausible explanation I can think of, he is a recruiter and knows he still has a minion alive. If this assumption is correct, lynching an inno + recruiting at Night brings vampires to 3v4, so that's decent odds. Still, a weird way to play this out.

As for Rashan's nonsense, dignifying it with an answer would be giving him too much credit. He's not a vampire though.

Vote Lock

Well you certainly appear to have ton more information than me. Although I'm leaning toward taking your side over Lock's at present, there is the pretty big problem which you've pointed out (but not really resolved) - why would Lock fake reveal at this moment? You have to go through a number of steps here in order to try and produce some kind of explanation

Having said that, I'm also intrigued by Lock's admission that there is the possibility of error in what they're saying - why? Is the information from another party? Or are you simply trying to provide an excuse when Nimander's CF doesn't come up as a vampire?

[Galain]

Actually, this strongly smells of two humans getting the wrong end of the stick.

@ Nim: What similarities in mechanics between this game and the last game are you referring to specifically?

[Kilava]

Merrid, on 10 June 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

Or, vamps killed him [Silchas]? I mean if we have a killer we need to take him out. If its a vampire killer, I would be profoundly uneasy leaving him lying around. That is simply not a risk we can take.

See the underlined. Are you saying we should take out a vampire who is a killer or a killer of vampires? The distinction is important. I'll take my chances with a bungling Vampire Slayer.

[Thyrllan]

I'm trying to figure out how likely it is that we're in a D-day situation, and Lock is making a push.

For a game with no reveals, it's a pretty serious reveal,

And if we are to believe Nim's "counter" things get even more serious.

I'll need a re-read once I get to work. But I'm leaning towards believing Nim right now.

[Nimander Golit]

On a tea break now, putting together some quick thoughts. I'm lurking in the thread but won't have much time to post until late in the evening.

Kilava, on 12 June 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Rashan, on 10 June 2017 - 10:14 AM, said:

Indicating he either missed both my question and Silchas's answer, or he just missed the answer, either way it indicates he doesn't really care for some reason. Not to mention he could've easily googled it in the meantime.

I've ignored a suggestion from PS to Google Buffy. The wiki page is 5 miles long and dense with minute detail compiled by fanatics of the most fanatical stripe. No thanks.

Nimander Golit, on 10 June 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

Even if he's [Lock] the lone vampire left in game (is that a possibility?), there was zero heat on him so far, therefore it reeks of unneeded desperation.

Ampelas was pretty determinedly anti-Lock early on and maintained that position right up until he died.

Hm, not how I read it. He put an OMGUS vote on Lock but moved on at some point and was voting Silchas when he was lynched. But it's worth keeping in mind.

Lock, on 12 June 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

You don't make sense.

You say my actions as a vampire don't make sense, therefore you're sure I'm one?

What if, and I say this with great trepidation you lily-livered son of a goat, what if I wasn't a vampire? What If I said what I said because it's the truth? As a fake reveal my actions don't make sense at all. For one thing, there were easier targets to point to and call vampire.But they do make sense if you assume I'm telling the truth.

Lock, on 12 June 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

Also, I'd assume Buffy can target me tonight and kill me if I'm a vampire. The same would be true about Nimander if you lynch me. Either way my reveal could win us the game.

Um, yes. I'm sure you're a vampire because you fake revealed (ie lied) I killed Silchas. Also, I like your little bits of hedging and the Buffy suggestion, because I suspect you're aware it wouldn't play that way.

Galain, on 12 June 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

Well you certainly appear to have ton more information than me. Although I'm leaning toward taking your side over Lock's at present, there is the pretty big problem which you've pointed out (but not really resolved) - why would Lock fake reveal at this moment? You have to go through a number of steps here in order to try and produce some kind of explanation

Having said that, I'm also intrigued by Lock's admission that there is the possibility of error in what they're saying - why? Is the information from another party? Or are you simply trying to provide an excuse when Nimander's CF doesn't come up as a vampire?

Like I said before, I have an issue with that myself. I see how picking me as a target makes sense for vampires (I have played like I often do, rather low-key and middle of the road, which is handy to paint as a target late in the game), I don't really get the timing. Maybe Lock overreached and he's just now realizing that. Or maybe he thinks it's D-day, though with 8 players left alive and one vampire already killed I don't see how it would work even in WCS, so I'm discounting this as a possibility.

Galain, on 12 June 2017 - 12:35 PM, said:

Actually, this strongly smells of two humans getting the wrong end of the stick.

@ Nim: What similarities in mechanics between this game and the last game are you referring to specifically?

I'm not sure how much further I can push this without breaking the rules. Hint: look at role descriptions in the previous Buffy game and think about how Nights played out in this one.

[Thyrllan]

I don't think it's D-day (the numbers don't really add up), and testing the "non-reveals" makes sense.

vote Lock

[Kilava]

After a reread I'm leaning toward Lock and Jalan for vampirage, with Galain bringing up the rear. Maybe Merrid too.

[Path-Shaper]

The clock will be unfrozen at 9:00 AM PST.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 4 with 35 hours and 38 minutes remaining.

There are 8 players still alive: ( Rashan, Galain, Jalan, Kilava, Thyrllan, Lock, Nimander Golit,Merrid)

5votes to lynch 4 to go night

1 vote Nimander (Lock)
2 votes Lock (Nimander, Thyr)

Players not voted: (Rashan, Galain, Kilava, Japan, Thyr, Lock, Nimander, Merrid)

[Thyrllan]

Well, don't everyone talk at once,

[Galain]

I'd like to know why Lock suggested that there is a possibility (however apparently remote in their own mind) that Nimander did not kill Silchas. Any way this can be expanded upon without crossing PS?

[Path-Shaper]

Galain, on 12 June 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'd like to know why Lock suggested that there is a possibility (however apparently remote in their own mind) that Nimander did not kill Silchas. Any way this can be expanded upon without crossing PS?

No.

[Thyrllan]

ok, well I'ma go watch Ubisoft make fools of themselves. Back later.

[Nimander Golit]

I'm around to till bedtime.

[Nimander Golit]

Well, if that isn't a fierce debate...


We still have a lot of time in the day. Would be nice to wake up from the post-freeze slumber. Jalan, Merrid, Rashan?

[Galain]

Path-Shaper, on 12 June 2017 - 07:36 PM, said:

Galain, on 12 June 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'd like to know why Lock suggested that there is a possibility (however apparently remote in their own mind) that Nimander did not kill Silchas. Any way this can be expanded upon without crossing PS?

No.

This would suggest that at least some of what Lock said is true.

[Galain]

Yeah I'm getting more convinced that you two may be on the same team - however, I don't think we can leave this unresolved.

I haven't seen a convincing reason for Lock to lie at this juncture. But Nimander could have killed Silchas and yet both be on the same team. Doesn't make Nimander a vampire.

What's interesting is that Nimander totally denies killing Silchas. So how to square that with what Lock is saying?

I think Lock is telling the truth - or what they believe the truth to be, which may end up not necessarily being the same thing.

I'm going to

Vote Nimander Golit

As there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves than there was for Lock to attempt a fake reveal at this juncture.

[Nimander Golit]

And you're basing this on PS's warning? Wow.

I was doubting Lock's choice of doing the fake reveal now but when I read things like this...

Galain, on 13 June 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think Lock is telling the truth - or what they believe the truth to be, which may end up not necessarily being the same thing.

[...]

As there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves than there was for Lock to attempt a fake reveal at this juncture.

... I'm starting to appreciate the smarts in that move. Reveal always puts you in advantaged position versus a counter reveal. I mean, just look at the logic of this sentence: there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves - well there also seems to be more reason for Nim to tell the truth to defend himself, isn't that right? Eh.

Finally, if Lock is the vampire leader, he's likely to have an LP, which essentially gives him an additional Night of roaming free. Haven't thought about it earlier. Now, what seemed like jumping the gun with a fake reveal makes much more sense.

[Galain]

Nimander Golit, on 13 June 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

And you're basing this on PS's warning? Wow.

I was doubting Lock's choice of doing the fake reveal now but when I read things like this...

Galain, on 13 June 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think Lock is telling the truth - or what they believe the truth to be, which may end up not necessarily being the same thing.

[...]

As there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves than there was for Lock to attempt a fake reveal at this juncture.

... I'm starting to appreciate the smarts in that move. Reveal always puts you in advantaged position versus a counter reveal. I mean, just look at the logic of this sentence: there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves - well there also seems to be more reason for Nim to tell the truth to defend himself, isn't that right? Eh.

Finally, if Lock is the vampire leader, he's likely to have an LP, which essentially gives him an additional Night of roaming free. Haven't thought about it earlier. Now, what seemed like jumping the gun with a fake reveal makes much more sense.

As I said, I suspect that you may both be telling the truth, which puts us in a bad position. I think that, if I'm wrong in that belief, there's slightly more chance that you are not telling the truth, which is why I voted for you. However this day pans out, I don't have a good feeling about the lynch result.

[Thyrllan]

Galain, on 13 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 13 June 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

And you're basing this on PS's warning? Wow.

I was doubting Lock's choice of doing the fake reveal now but when I read things like this...

Galain, on 13 June 2017 - 09:56 AM, said:

I think Lock is telling the truth - or what they believe the truth to be, which may end up not necessarily being the same thing.

[...]

As there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves than there was for Lock to attempt a fake reveal at this juncture.

... I'm starting to appreciate the smarts in that move. Reveal always puts you in advantaged position versus a counter reveal. I mean, just look at the logic of this sentence: there seems to be more reason for Nim to lie in order to defend themselves - well there also seems to be more reason for Nim to tell the truth to defend himself, isn't that right? Eh.

Finally, if Lock is the vampire leader, he's likely to have an LP, which essentially gives him an additional Night of roaming free. Haven't thought about it earlier. Now, what seemed like jumping the gun with a fake reveal makes much more sense.

As I said, I suspect that you may both be telling the truth, which puts us in a bad position. I think that, if I'm wrong in that belief, there's slightly more chance that you are not telling the truth, which is why I voted for you. However this day pans out, I don't have a good feeling about the lynch result.

Are you paying attention? If Nim is not lying, humans are seriously shooting themselves in the foot right now.

Nim would need balls of steel to imply what he's implying if he's lying (because if he's faking, he's the insta-target for person who he's faking)

I have no clue what Lock's game is, but it's certainly detrimental to the non-vampires.