[Aventinus]

I'm only in the second chapter but I have a question regarding Silchas' group.

If I remember correctly the events of MT happened ~3-5 years before the events of Reaper Gale, correct? This seems like a veeery long time for this group to roam around Letheras. Psychologically, they seem like they've been together for only a few weeks. Also, the distance they've covered is not long at all (for 3-5 years).

Can you give me some context, please? Maybe I miss something.

[Aptorian]

The timeline is not important, The timeline is not important, The timeline is not important...

[Aventinus]

Seduce Goose, on 20 May 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

The timeline is not important, The timeline is not important, The timeline is not important...

I've been following the TOR reread since I started reading GotM. I remember many comments regarding timeline inconsistencies and every time I thought that these people were nitpicking. But this is kind of big. I mean, it doesn't make sense, you know what I mean? I can think of some explanations. Maybe Silchas' story is not in the present-present but somewhere in between. This is why I asked for context.

[Aptorian]

It's been too long since I read it, but there are a few explanations. For one they wandered in the mountains for quite some time avoiding the letherii. I also suspect there were some warren related time dilation.

But mostly the timeline is fucked.

This post has been edited by Seduce Goose: 20 May 2017 - 06:06 PM

[worry]

Yah. I tend to excuse it with Midnight Tides wasn't actually that long ago. But that exacerbates the other glaring timeline issue you haven't come to yet. Neither one is particularly important though, like once you're past the "that doesn't make sense timeline-wise" part, it doesn't actually have any kind of disastrous domino effect.

[Abyss]

Warrens.It's all about warrens not important the timeline is not important the timeline is not....

[Gorefest]

Well, the Finnest is really well hidden and they are all really determined to find it and/or have the other person not find it. There is supposedly an unfound chocoloate Easter egg in my parents' garden from four Easters ago that my nephew is still searching for whenever he is at their place (though I suspect my dad lied to him about that just for a laugh).

[Aventinus]

Gorefest, on 21 May 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

Well, the Finnest is really well hidden and they are all really determined to find it and/or have the other person not find it. There is supposedly an unfound chocoloate Easter egg in my parents' garden from four Easters ago that my nephew is still searching for whenever he is at their place (though I suspect my dad lied to him about that just for a laugh).

???

[Puck]

Aventinus, on 20 May 2017 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm only in the second chapter but I have a question regarding Silchas' group.

If I remember correctly the events of MT happened ~3-5 years before the events of Reaper Gale, correct? This seems like a veeery long time for this group to roam around Letheras. Psychologically, they seem like they've been together for only a few weeks. Also, the distance they've covered is not long at all (for 3-5 years).

Can you give me some context, please? Maybe I miss something.

Depends. I can't remember how the 3-5 years estimate came about, but 3 years is easily doable between MT and RG if you assume that it's between the beginning of MT and the beginning of RG. Though it doesn't seem like it while reading, the Tiste Edur invasion of Lether took well over a year. In Chapter 1 of RG, Seren mentions how Silchas' group has been together and travelling for "months and months", which to me sounds like at least the better part of a year. That may seem like a very long time to reach the mountains, but in the same thought Seren also mentions that they had to travel a huge hook; rather than going straight east they had to travel north then basically return, on foot, while hiding from hunters sent out immediately after Fear's and Udinaas' disappearance was noticed, meaning they likely had to stay put and hide, sometimes for weeks.

As to why they don't seem like that.. Well, my assumption is that they don't want to be where they are and Seren in particular seems very proficient at denial.

[Itwæs Nom]

I think the estimation of time passed comes from the 14th's time spent at sea before arriving to Letheras. I remember it as about the said 3 years, plus (since MT ends more or less parallely with MoI) there was the time when events of HoC and BH happened.

[Aptorian]

But then you also need to factor in Trulls chaining in the Nascent realm.

[Coltaine -]

Itwæs Nom, on 22 May 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

I think the estimation of time passed comes from the 14th's time spent at sea before arriving to Letheras. I remember it as about the said 3 years, plus (since MT ends more or less parallely with MoI) there was the time when events of HoC and BH happened.

Actually MT should end way before MoI, because the inhabitants of Callous were killed by the Tiste Edur fleet. But than there is the dead Edur, who probably not drifted several years in the ocean, and Karsa's journey through the already flooted Nascent, maybe around the time when the Siege of Pale ended or, according to the date mentioned in the book alreday 1159 BS.

Okay, my guess for the timeline

1159 BS - Wrong date. Nothing happend there

1162 BS (?) - MT, Nacent flooded, Tiste Edur fleets send out, Trull chained
1163 BS - Karsa kills Binadas in the Nascent
1164 BS - Callous, MoI, Trull freed
1165 BS - tBH, Fleets start returning home, Bonehunters outlawed
1166 BS - RG (Invasion of Letheras was still before the Battle of the Plains due to what Hood said about Toc the Elder), I think it is also mentioned, that the journey of the Bonehunters takes at least a year.
Also ignore the date for the Landing of the Barghast in Letheras. Yes, according to the book they landed there before MoI happend.

So it should be at least roughly four years for Silchas and gang to walk around. Maybe they travelled through a Warren with some strange effects on time. My best guess to save the situation. Always blame the warrens.

This post has been edited by - Coltaine -: 22 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

[Aventinus]

- Coltaine -, on 22 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

So it should be at least roughly four years for Silchas and gang to walk around. Maybe they travelled through a Warren with some strange effects on time. My best guess to save the situation. Always blame the warrens.

But they never entered any warrens... Did they? :P

[Aptorian]

The blue rose mountains were semi-shrouded by Kurald Galain or something like that, weren't they? Plus Ruin is powerful enough that they could all have been travelling around in a pocket warren the entire time.

[Aventinus]

Seduce Goose, on 22 May 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Plus Ruin is powerful enough that they could all have been travelling around in a pocket warren the entire time.

Uber-speculative :p

This post has been edited by Aventinus: 22 May 2017 - 06:29 PM

[Aventinus]

Ultimately, I don't mind, really. Malazan is an awesome series and yes, timeline does not matter. I just wanted to learn if there is an explanation about it.

[D'rek]

Unfortunately, there is no explanation. As you say, it doesn't make the books not-awesome!

The other big one in RG you might have already run into but I'll put in spoilers just in case:

Spoiler

In MoI, the events of MT have clearly happened in the past - the Deck tells Paran about Emperor Rhulad, Callows has been razed by the Edur fleets, etc. During MoI the Barghast discover their old weaponry and at the end are still on the Genebackis continent.

In-between MoI and RG a large portion of the White Face Barghast set out in boats to journey to Lether.

Then in the prologue of RG, which takes place back before the Edur invasion of Lether, a military patrol finds the Barghast's abandoned boats on the shore, many years before the Barghast could possibly have set out from Genebackis.

At least Silchas' group's travel time is just a matter of squeezing and stretching travel times, but still lines up in a causality sense. The Barghast boats are Doctor Who levels of timeline manipulation.

[Aventinus]

D, on 23 May 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

Unfortunately, there is no explanation. As you say, it doesn't make the books not-awesome!

The other big one in RG you might have already run into but I'll put in spoilers just in case:

Spoiler

In MoI, the events of MT have clearly happened in the past - the Deck tells Paran about Emperor Rhulad, Callows has been razed by the Edur fleets, etc. During MoI the Barghast discover their old weaponry and at the end are still on the Genebackis continent.

In-between MoI and RG a large portion of the White Face Barghast set out in boats to journey to Lether.

Then in the prologue of RG, which takes place back before the Edur invasion of Lether, a military patrol finds the Barghast's abandoned boats on the shore, many years before the Barghast could possibly have set out from Genebackis.

At least Silchas' group's travel time is just a matter of squeezing and stretching travel times, but still lines up in a causality sense. The Barghast boats are Doctor Who levels of timeline manipulation.

Ah, I see. Yes you are right. Thank you for your input.

[Abyss]

Aventinus, on 22 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

- Coltaine -, on 22 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

So it should be at least roughly four years for Silchas and gang to walk around. Maybe they travelled through a Warren with some strange effects on time. My best guess to save the situation. Always blame the warrens.

But they never entered any warrens... Did they?

They were travelling together for a chunk of time we don't see. Anything could have happened... at a minimum something made Silchas send the wyval away.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 23 May 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Aventinus, on 22 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

- Coltaine -, on 22 May 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

So it should be at least roughly four years for Silchas and gang to walk around. Maybe they travelled through a Warren with some strange effects on time. My best guess to save the situation. Always blame the warrens.

But they never entered any warrens... Did they?

They were travelling together for a chunk of time we don't see. Anything could have happened... at a minimum something made Silchas send the wyval away.

Seren, Udinaas and Kettle (IIRC) also got kidnapped at some point, too. But nevertheless they themselves think back on it as not seeming to have been years of time spent travelling.