[Galain]

Nim votes Merrid day one.

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Merrid, on 08 May 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

So...

Looking at the set-up, why should the doctor and bodyguard not claim d1 and target each other?

talking about town rules is scummy

vote nim

Maybe you should tell me why it wouldn't work while you're busy voting me, else it just looks like a filthy scum allegation to hinder set-up breaking

Merrid

Vote Merrid

Day one.

First response by Kilava

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 03:13 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

Merrid, on 08 May 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:05 PM, said:

Merrid, on 08 May 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

So...

Looking at the set-up, why should the doctor and bodyguard not claim d1 and target each other?

talking about town rules is scummy

vote nim

Maybe you should tell me why it wouldn't work while you're busy voting me, else it just looks like a filthy scum allegation to hinder set-up breaking

Merrid

I already did.

Not in the post I responded to, obviously.

The symp could just counter-reveal as one of them - then who would the real healer/bodyguard believe and know who to target? Meanwhile we spend a few days trying to work out which is the real roled town and which is the scum, while killers go about their business.


Edit: deleted extraneous 'or'

Answering a question directed at Merrid.

[Galain]

Directed at Merrid

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 04:01 PM, said:

^ scum

That's all the "better" we need, chief.

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

At this point, Merrid and Kilava are my primary scumreads for reasons that should be self-evident.

If anyone needs clarification on those reads, feel free to ask.

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

At this point, Merrid and Kilava are my primary scumreads for reasons that should be self-evident.

If anyone needs clarification on those reads, feel free to ask.

I can't say the reasons are self-evident, no. Aside from that we disagreed on your initial premise? I questioned you, so that makes me scummy?

So I guess that's me asking for clarification.

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 04:19 PM, said:

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 04:11 PM, said:

Aside from that we disagreed on your initial premise?

Subtle jab #2.

I showed how Merrid was not attempting to sort me, but calculating the risk I posed to him, which Kilava completely ignored.

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 04:55 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 04:13 PM, said:

Any town that feels the need to discredit town through such insidious measures are playing directly against their win con.

So anyone who questions or criticises you is scum or working against town, because you're town?

And the rest of us know that for certain because...?

By that same logic, you accusing me of being scummy is scummy and/or acting against town, because, you know, I'm town myself.

[Galain]

Merrid was engaging with Nimander, so was SR. Look at what Kilava has to say.

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 05:00 PM, said:

Also, in my experience, scum tend to sit off to the sidelines when events like this happen, and let town eat themselves, rather than directly engaging.

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Also worth noting that Kilava continues to have no comment on my note about Merrid.

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Also worth noting that Kilava continues to have no comment on my note about Merrid.

Well, that's because I currently have no particular comment on it. I felt Merrid made some fair points, and you answered reasonably - at least till you started calling everyone scummy who spoke negatively about you Could Merrid be scum attempting to throw suspicion on your motives? Maybe, but only in the same sense that I could be.


I don't think that anyone has actively tried to discredit you - no one is countering your claim. But we are - at least, I have been - questioning some of your reasoning behind it. In any case, as I think I've already made clear, what's done is done, and now we see what comes next. As I said, I reckon a continuing non-reveal of the other role can benefit town, because Nimander is unlikely to be targetted by a kill in case the bodyguard has chosen them.

Kilava, on 08 May 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

Actually, being reasonable on day 1 tends to be a vote magnet

I thought that when Merrid said it's "no-risk" they meant their own vote on you as you're unlikely to be lynched currently - I may be wrong?

Then Nimander

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:47 PM, said:

Merrid might be stubborn town


The way Silchas slinked onto my wait was terrible.

remove vote

vote Silchas Ruin

Kilava disappears, comes back later with his vote on me.

When did Merrid vote Ampelas? After Silchas received a vote?

Merrid, on 09 May 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 09 May 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Yes, FOUR (4)

I'm thinking SR is implying NG is helping scum ergo effectively scum too.


Although, reading further on, no, they're actually still not answering why you'd be 2nd vote on a claimed town role.

Vote Silchas Ruin

but is happy to switch

Merrid, on 09 May 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

I'm reasonably happy to switch to Osseric.

Jalan hasn't come back yet which also makes me a little twitchy.

who follows his vote?

Kilava, on 09 May 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Yes Ampelas, I was saying that I'm not committed to a vote yet. I'm currently deciding between SR - to make sure they never make a joke again - or on the other hand I'm tempted to test Galain's conviction on Osseric. That kind of single-mindedness is interesting. If Galain is who I think they are, they do have good instincts. Sometimes. And Osseric is currently dead weight. On the third hand, having blinkers for a nonentity is an easy way for scum to look like they're contributing something independently.

Same suspects as Merrid, I'll vote SR but could switch to Osseric

Kilava, on 09 May 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

Alrighty.

Vote Silchas Ruin

No reason for voting SR. I don't give a shit Rashan, you say you cannot see Kilava being a symp for Merrid.

[Galain]

Before day two, still day one. Who mentioned flamethrower in terms of throwing scum under the bus?

Merrid, on 10 May 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

You're dead, shush.

Also, your sense of honour needs some examining.

With a flamethrower.

I'll continue

[Galain]

Puts Merrid safe in the middle.

Kilava, on 10 May 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

Rashan, Merrid, Jalan, or Denul as Bauchelain is my not very risky bet.

Merrid all game has been criticizing our healer.

Merrid, on 11 May 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

What?

So you want us to blindly believe you're right?

If he's scummy, prove it to the rest of us. TEAM town.

Right now you're sounding like nothing but gut.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 05:10 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 11 May 2017 - 01:52 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 08 May 2017 - 05:27 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:21 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 08 May 2017 - 05:20 PM, said:

Or I just found it funnyThis game's supposed to be fun too

This kind of game is for people that find scumhunting "fun".Not being boorish louts.

That's rather unflatteringVote Nimander

Truth hurts.Enjoy your little spite vote.

Denul, on 08 May 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 08 May 2017 - 05:25 PM, said:

So tell me... what is the town motivation in maintaining a vote on an un-cc'ed role?The scum motivation is hoping that role is clumsy enough to get mislynched and disowning responsibility by saying, "oops, my vote was there since rvs and I didn't like his attitude".What does town get out of what Merrid is doing?

The same thing could be said of me. Just sayin'.

Denul, on 08 May 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

Denul, on 08 May 2017 - 05:29 PM, said:

The same thing could be said of me. Just sayin'.

In the sense that I left my vote there because I didn't like his attitude.

Very rapid (these are consecutive posts) defense of SR's vote on Nim. Proactive even.

Some might argue that's exactly what a partner wouldn't do.

Partner, no. But a symp might, and that's what Ampelas is driving at. It's the most attractive case I can see right now. Trouble is it doesn't necessarily point to the other killer as yet.

Not interested in hanging the symp, though.

Identifying the some in order to hunt for the second killer, I can understand. Hope this isn't anything more than that, though. It would be stupid to intentionally lynch the symp.

Also also, knowing who the symp is only really matters if they're trying to defend a suspected killing scum.

Symp hunting is, for the most part, smoke and mirrors used to hide lack of productivity.

No one is interested in hanging the symp. It's about looking for potential connections. At the moment I think Jalan or Merrid is most likely the other killer, based on what others have uncovered. Haven't done my own read as yet.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

Galain, on 11 May 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

So in conclusion after my read up I have Merrid as my top suspect and Jalan as a close second.

That post I quoted with Denul quoting both Silchas and Merrid has me thinking he is the symp. He also never voted for SR.

Vote Merrid

I'm currently more convinced by your last post about Jalan than your various analyses of Merrid. That's an interesting catch on the "cc'ed". I was surprised you voted this way.

[Galain]

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 11:20 AM, said:

Those who were conspicuously unavailable during the drama are far more suspicious than those on center stage.

Hmm, sounds familiar, almost like someone said this back on day 1

Interestingly, though, it doesn't quite apply to how Silchas played - though I suppose they unwillingly got roped in further.

Obviously.

And there was a world of difference between SR's activity and Merrid's.

Obviously.

Mine was more a comparison of Silchas' and Jalan's play styles - if we're expecting scum not to get involved overmuch in day 1 than Jalan fits that (while Merrid does not). My caveat to that argument is that Silchas, who was scum, DID get involved, so belies expectations - but as I said, there were mitigating factors to that that forced their involvement.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 02:36 PM, said:

Alright, I've now got time for a proper reread, so will do that, post thoughts, and vote.

Initially, Galain, if Merrid is scum, then they've played the outraged townie very well. I can see that - maybe - as a symp playing like that, but for now I think there are better targets for scum.

Merrid, on 11 May 2017 - 06:11 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

BG, I want you alive.

If you agree with me about Galain, claim today. If you're countered, it would have to be by the last killing scum to have any shot at success.

So, even if you lose a claim war, it would out the last killer and win the game.

Why couldn't the symp claim with any chance at success?

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Galain makes a lot of noise today about Jalan and Merrid. If they're symp, then the chances of either of those two being killers drops off somewhat I reckon. Now in their analysis today, Galain also starts off with Denul - says some sensible things about them, but then drops that line of thought in favour of Merrid and Jalan. It's like a soft, "now this person could be scummy, but then again maybe not, what do I know?" Galain also seems to gently nudge thinking toward Denul possibly being a symp, i.e. not someone for town to think about lynching curently.

Galain, on 11 May 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

I was obviously so wrong about SR but that doesn't mean I am off twice in a row

Merrid > Jalan > Ampelas for killers in my book.

99% sure it isn't Rashan, Kilava, and 100% not Nimander or myself obvz.

leaves Denul (he could be SR's partner but his behaviour does not fit)

Is the above re Denul just too blatant? i.e. "he could be SR's partner [psst, Denul, I'm on your side] but his behaviour does not fit".


And what Silchas has to say about Denul:

Silchas Ruin, on 09 May 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

Denul's non-commitment warrants attention but his play has not been that much different from mine so they're not that supicious to me.

Denul did some early soft pushing away from Silchas before dropping it. Other than that, their play has mostly been non-serious, only becoming serious when someone raises something about them directly. Even the Jalan "convo" at the end of day 1 was made semi-light heartedly, and they don't go about pushing it (or much else) personally today from what I can see.


Vote Denul


I think it is either Denul or Jalan (with Galain as the outside so-blatant-its-actually-genius bet). Jalan has said some things which sway me a bit away from them today, so I'm going with Denul.




Edit: ] to "

So he lands on Denul. Merrid has disappeared off his "scum" read.

Merrid votes the same way believing Denul to be the symp

Merrid, on 11 May 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

Kruppe of Darujhistan, on 11 May 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Well, at least I've graduated from Symp to Killer.

That's... uhh... an admission of symphood?

Vote Denul

Not the killer. Not scum. The symp!!!!!

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:02 PM, said:

Sorry all, that was a bust then. I have to still like Galain for symp though. He could have voted or hammered Denul, but never switched even when Denul clearly looked like the only lynch choice, thus making it look like they couldn't/wouldn't vote that way, and that way making Denul look even more guilty.


To answer the question on Ampelas: I didn't think they were scum because they independently cast suspicion on Silchas through raising the possible signalling from Denul. After that they did back away from Silchas, but the second reason is simply because they ended up on the same train as Silchas at the end of day 1 (mine). I'm not sure I see scum doing that.

Obviously now with both Denul and Jalan dead and not scum, I am not as sure as I was.

No mention of Merrid here.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:20 PM, said:

The argument for the BG to reveal is compelling at this stage. But having said that, I don't think the BG should reveal unless we look like we're going to lynch them. That way, if we end up getting the lynch wrong, the killer still isn't certain about who to target.

Does not want the BG to reveal.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:32 PM, said:

Rashan, on 11 May 2017 - 09:28 PM, said:

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:25 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 11 May 2017 - 08:27 PM, said:

Jalan was a very strange kill considering he was suspected way more than several others.

Kinda makes me want to not townread Kilava for some reason.

It wasn't that strange. He was unlikely to be healed by you.

Super-unlikely, given Nim explicitly said he'd be healing Merrid.

Nim, you think he's trying too hard, or is he really this out of it?

Are you talking about me? I know that Nim said he would heal Merrid, but were I scum I wouldn't pay attention to that. Anyone can state what they're going to do on thread and then not follow through on it.

As for the BG reveal, if there's a consensus I'm happy to go with it. I did not consider going to night.

Scum wouldn't.

Kilava, on 11 May 2017 - 09:44 PM, said:

I'm trying to recall why I discounted Merrid previously and put Denul in instead. I suppose it was because Galain voted for them.

[Galain]

Now I am going to stop.

Back to work, spent my whole lunch looking through thread.

Basic thoughts are, (thanks to Rashan)

IF 1 scum left then the game should end because there is no way town can lose.

That means there must be two scum, has to be two scum. I am not scum. Rashan isn't. Nim isn't.

Leaves Amp/Merrid and Kilava.

Look through the thread, and make a pairing, or as many as you can and why.

I am thinking Kilava may be best bet because their defense of Merrid is too obvious. So the killer could be either Amp/Merrid. We lynch Kilava, there is a kill, we win by voting who is left.

[Rashan]

I am certainly curious as to how Kilava will respond, if nothing else.

[Kilava]

How to respond to the accusation that I am Merrid's symp? I can vote for Merrid, for no other reason than to show that I can.

I have made it very plain (in fact I said exactly this) that while Merrid was among my suspects (note: never the standout single suspect), they have since been moved to the town list.

Why do I seem to continually defend them? I do not.

What happens is that Galain says over and over and over that I am defending or ignoring Merrid, and I say over and over and over that I am speaking like that because I think they are town. Then we go again. So my continual 'defence' is in fact largely a response to Galain.

Remove Vote

Vote Merrid


Now I await your accusation that this vote is scummy



Edit: twin to town, not saying to speaking like.

This post has been edited by Kilava: 16 May 2017 - 01:45 PM

[Galain]

What does that vote achieve now? We aren't all going to hop on board. It means nothing.

Nim brought Merrid up first as quoted. Then Ampelas as quoted. Myself as quoted yet you say its just me.

You never explained why Merrid dropped off your radar other than to say I voted for them.

In fact, I've only brought up you defending Merrid on d day.

Day 2 I was voting Merrid based off Denul being his symp and his connection to SR to which you said you'd prefer to vote Jalan off reading my case.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 10 hours and 43 minutes remaining

6 Players still alive: Ampelas, Galain, Kilava, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Rashan

4 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Nimander Golit ( Merrid )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Ampelas )
1 Vote for Merrid ( Kilava )

Players not voted: Galain, Nimander Golit, Rashan

[Kilava]

Galain, on 16 May 2017 - 01:54 PM, said:

What does that vote achieve now? We aren't all going to hop on board. It means nothing.

Nim brought Merrid up first as quoted. Then Ampelas as quoted. Myself as quoted yet you say its just me.

You never explained why Merrid dropped off your radar other than to say I voted for them.

In fact, I've only brought up you defending Merrid on d day.

Day 2 I was voting Merrid based off Denul being his symp and his connection to SR to which you said you'd prefer to vote Jalan off reading my case.

Are you actually joking right now?

[Kilava]

Kilava, on 16 May 2017 - 08:24 AM, said:

I read your posts Galain. Problem is that it's difficult to read them without associating ulterior motives due to how you've played (plus many of them are questioning my own motives).

Bit more explanation on Merrid: Initially I suspected them because of their position on the lynch train. And you are correct that they have not had the greatest town game, probably spending too much time and effort haranguing Nim when it's pointless. Essentially, rereads changed my mind on Merrid. That kind of play also stands out dramatically. And they were the pivot point of SR's lynch in terms of actual votes. A good place to hide but also the place where your odds of dooming your partner increase tenfold. As I said a while back, if they're scum, then they have played the outraged townie excellently, and I can only say kudos to that. I believe though that better options remain.

[Galain]

Thank you for posting further evidence on how you view Merrid.

[Kilava]

Re the vote: What it achieves is simply saving us a step in this ridiculous process.

I say I'm not a symp, I can quite easily vote for Merrid if I wanted to.

You then say, "Ooh, but you haven't have you, you've only said that you will without putting your vote where your mouth is!"

I then vote for Merrid.

I simply cut your inanity out of it.

Anyways,

Remove Vote

Because I believe Merrid is town ad infinitum. Honestly, that's the end of the discussion from me. Either lynch me over what I've openly stood for, or lynch someone who's actually played a scummy game. I'm still - barely - leaning toward Ampelas.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 10 hours and 26 minutes remaining

6 Players still alive: Ampelas, Galain, Kilava, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Rashan

4 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Kilava ( Ampelas )
1 Vote for Nimander Golit ( Merrid )

Players not voted: Galain, Kilava, Nimander Golit, Rashan

[Galain]

My point Rashan here, is on day two I was voting Amp, but I made a case on Merrid and he was my prime suspect. The only person I have not outright stated as scum killer is Kilava. I was ready to leave my vote on Amp until what you said about the game ending tomorrow if we are down to 1 scum. That leaves the only explanation here that scum can still win. If this is the case then I advocate Kilava as most likely symp.

If you think my logic is shaky then please do illuminate me.

[Galain]

Day will timeout at an ungodly hour so I won't be around for end of day. If 2 scum are alive then 1 of them will have to be on a scum train. I am here until 5.30ish, I'll check back around 8ish, then maybe before I go to bed around 10ish then that's it.

[Kilava]

Vote Ampelas

As I may not be around again for a few hours.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 5. 9 hours and 37 minutes remaining

6 Players still alive: Ampelas, Galain, Kilava, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Rashan

4 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Nimander Golit ( Merrid )
1 Vote for Kilava ( Ampelas )
1 Vote for Ampelas ( Kilava )

Players not voted: Galain, Nimander Golit, Rashan