[Gamelon]

Mockra, on 29 March 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

So say Fande was symp and he fake-revealed. If real healer counter-revealed and town believed the counter, everything he said would be turned against him, so he probably wouldn't exactly praise his masters play? We don't know what he'd do, but it's irrelevant to base such assumptions on something that he said knowing it might be turned around.

Except that Serc's reveal is making everything Fanderay did VERY important. Serc revealed healer, which is what Fanderay revealed. So now we have to look at everything Fanderay did until he was lynched, and compare it to everything that Serc has done up to this point, and decide which reveal wie think is true. Stop trying to get people to ignore the things that they should be paying attention to you scummy bastard. Are people really doubting that Serc and Mockra are scum? I'm seriously flabbergasted.

[Alkend]

Gamelon, on 29 March 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Mockra, on 29 March 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 29 March 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Alkend you around? What do you make of Bek's posts at the moment? They have gone quite erratic

Lol, I have gone erratic, says claimed healer who put himself on L-1 on D-Day, then suggested going to Night, and also keeps his vote off the person he's sure is scum. Right.

But the self-vote achieved exactly what it was supposed to achieve I believe

Night will give us Sercs inno CF, assumingly giving credit to everything he's said, but then town would have to listen in order for that to work.

You're fucking dumb if you think that the killers would ever do exactly what Serc says. The best way for scum to win this if we go night and Serc is, in fact, the healer, is to leave Serc alive. Cause then we'd be exactly where we are right now, with one less person.

Or not. Because if he is healer, he may succeed. OR they may withhold, leading us to flounder in more WIFOM.

There's a lot of possibilities, most of them don't give us any new info.

[Gamelon]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

Or not. Because if he is healer, he may succeed. OR they may withhold, leading us to flounder in more WIFOM.

There's a lot of possibilities, most of them don't give us any new info.

I mean, if he IS the healer, then he's obviously going to heal Mockra - he has said on several occasions that Mockra is the only person he is certain is town. But even if he went with either Bek or Okaros (who are the two most likely townies in my opinion), scum would still have a 50/50 chance to get a kill and leave us in exactly the same position we were in yesterday. But why would he waste his heal on someone he's not sure of?

[Alkend]

I'm still struggling with the suggestion that Mac was CLEARLY symp.

Okay, I can understand Serc's supposed "certainty", if he was in fact the healer.

But why would Mockra be so adamant that it was fake as well?

From where I'm standing, if it was a fake-reveal, claiming Hanas as heal was preposterous choice. A fake-reveal would take more caution to sound plausible, since it's more important for scum to get the extra day of breathing space.

Mac's reveal makes little sense as genuine. It makes NO sense as fake.

Add to this the fact that Serc conveniently didn't counter, and he makes the claim on D-day. And then the self-vote stunt.

I just don't see this all as town play, I'm sorry.

[Serc]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'm still struggling with the suggestion that Mac was CLEARLY symp.

Okay, I can understand Serc's supposed "certainty", if he was in fact the healer.

But why would Mockra be so adamant that it was fake as well?

From where I'm standing, if it was a fake-reveal, claiming Hanas as heal was preposterous choice. A fake-reveal would take more caution to sound plausible, since it's more important for scum to get the extra day of breathing space.

Mac's reveal makes little sense as genuine. It makes NO sense as fake.

Add to this the fact that Serc conveniently didn't counter, and he makes the claim on D-day. And then the self-vote stunt.

I just don't see this all as town play, I'm sorry.

Fair enough, I did take into account that it was early in the game, I did not fancy a counter with a possible promotion out there, I thought it best to just lynch Fanderay and was certain he'd come up scum. The CF threw me.

[Mockra]

Gamelon, on 29 March 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

Mockra, on 29 March 2017 - 11:31 AM, said:

So say Fande was symp and he fake-revealed. If real healer counter-revealed and town believed the counter, everything he said would be turned against him, so he probably wouldn't exactly praise his masters play? We don't know what he'd do, but it's irrelevant to base such assumptions on something that he said knowing it might be turned around.

Except that Serc's reveal is making everything Fanderay did VERY important. Serc revealed healer, which is what Fanderay revealed. So now we have to look at everything Fanderay did until he was lynched, and compare it to everything that Serc has done up to this point, and decide which reveal wie think is true. Stop trying to get people to ignore the things that they should be paying attention to you scummy bastard. Are people really doubting that Serc and Mockra are scum? I'm seriously flabbergasted.

Nowhere am I saying that nobody should decide which of the reveals do they believe. I have decided since from my perspective it wouldn't make that much sense for Serc to fake reveal in the situation in which he revealed if he was scum. I was the prime suspect, not him. And me flipping inno would have given his credit too. It seems clear which one of the reveals is fake from my position. And Gamelon with Bek are acting pretty scummy now.

[Alkend]

So then my question to you is this: have you at any point questioned why Mockra is following you like a puppy all game? That's what initially drew my attention to you, and at this point it's pretty blatant.

[Mockra]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

So then my question to you is this: have you at any point questioned why Mockra is following you like a puppy all game? That's what initially drew my attention to you, and at this point it's pretty blatant.

I have just so far agreed with pretty much everything he's said, which also makes it easier for me to think that he's a townie and believe his reveal

[Mockra]

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'm still struggling with the suggestion that Mac was CLEARLY symp.

Okay, I can understand Serc's supposed "certainty", if he was in fact the healer.

But why would Mockra be so adamant that it was fake as well?

From where I'm standing, if it was a fake-reveal, claiming Hanas as heal was preposterous choice. A fake-reveal would take more caution to sound plausible, since it's more important for scum to get the extra day of breathing space.

Mac's reveal makes little sense as genuine. It makes NO sense as fake.

Add to this the fact that Serc conveniently didn't counter, and he makes the claim on D-day. And then the self-vote stunt.

I just don't see this all as town play, I'm sorry.

Fair enough, I did take into account that it was early in the game, I did not fancy a counter with a possible promotion out there, I thought it best to just lynch Fanderay and was certain he'd come up scum. The CF threw me.

To be fair iirc I thought Fanderay was more likely to be symp than killer from the get go

[Serc]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

So then my question to you is this: have you at any point questioned why Mockra is following you like a puppy all game? That's what initially drew my attention to you, and at this point it's pretty blatant.

Then surely your vote would be on me today, and same with Gamelon et tu, the end of day yesterday we were split between Gamelon and Mockra, with Kaschan gone that favour tilted towards Mockra being lynched today.

If he was the killer why would he blatantly follow my vote like that? To fake symp me? My vote throughout the game has been logical and correct, I cannot account for the votes of others. I was first on the Fanderay vote train, 4 people followed who also agreed with me. Not just Mockra.

[Alkend]

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

[Gamelon]

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

My vote throughout the game has been logical and correct, I cannot account for the votes of others.

This is ony true if Fanderay's reveal was indeed fake.

[Serc]

Mockra, on 29 March 2017 - 02:39 PM, said:

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

I'm still struggling with the suggestion that Mac was CLEARLY symp.

Okay, I can understand Serc's supposed "certainty", if he was in fact the healer.

But why would Mockra be so adamant that it was fake as well?

From where I'm standing, if it was a fake-reveal, claiming Hanas as heal was preposterous choice. A fake-reveal would take more caution to sound plausible, since it's more important for scum to get the extra day of breathing space.

Mac's reveal makes little sense as genuine. It makes NO sense as fake.

Add to this the fact that Serc conveniently didn't counter, and he makes the claim on D-day. And then the self-vote stunt.

I just don't see this all as town play, I'm sorry.

Fair enough, I did take into account that it was early in the game, I did not fancy a counter with a possible promotion out there, I thought it best to just lynch Fanderay and was certain he'd come up scum. The CF threw me.

To be fair iirc I thought Fanderay was more likely to be symp than killer from the get go

too many variables from the get go, he played his game and left us with a ton of wifom, easy place for scum to hide behind. That's what I think Gam is doing.

Alkend seems more town than Bek based on todays play but I don't know whether its good cop bad cop with them.

[Alkend]

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

So then my question to you is this: have you at any point questioned why Mockra is following you like a puppy all game? That's what initially drew my attention to you, and at this point it's pretty blatant.

Then surely your vote would be on me today, and same with Gamelon et tu, the end of day yesterday we were split between Gamelon and Mockra, with Kaschan gone that favour tilted towards Mockra being lynched today.

If he was the killer why would he blatantly follow my vote like that? To fake symp me? My vote throughout the game has been logical and correct, I cannot account for the votes of others. I was first on the Fanderay vote train, 4 people followed who also agreed with me. Not just Mockra.

My vote IS on you.

And one of the 4 people who "followed" you was Mac himself.

[Gamelon]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

This. This right here is the exact point I have been trying to make. If Serc is, in fact, a healer, he should have revealed immediately. It would have meant losing him during the following Night cycle, but we wouldn't be mired in this WIFOM pit today. Which is the main reason I have lots of doubts about Serc's reveal. It's just too convenient.

[Serc]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

Hang on I did everything to discredit Fand from the get go. I'll pull up all relevant quotes.

[Serc]

Gamelon, on 29 March 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

This. This right here is the exact point I have been trying to make. If Serc is, in fact, a healer, he should have revealed immediately. It would have meant losing him during the following Night cycle, but we wouldn't be mired in this WIFOM pit today. Which is the main reason I have lots of doubts about Serc's reveal. It's just too convenient.

No you didn't say that earlier in the game, you said you'd have a long think about it. Such a liar!

[Mockra]

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

Fanderay's reveal looked really dodgy, why would a healer out himself on D2 if Fande was gonna get lynched anyway?

[Gamelon]

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:46 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 29 March 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

This. This right here is the exact point I have been trying to make. If Serc is, in fact, a healer, he should have revealed immediately. It would have meant losing him during the following Night cycle, but we wouldn't be mired in this WIFOM pit today. Which is the main reason I have lots of doubts about Serc's reveal. It's just too convenient.

No you didn't say that earlier in the game, you said you'd have a long think about it. Such a liar!

WTF are you talking about? I think you're coming unhinged Serc.

[Gamelon]

Serc, on 29 March 2017 - 02:45 PM, said:

Alkend, on 29 March 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

See, I don't get this. Maybe I'm just old-school like that, but I tend to take a reveal as genuine, unless it's challenged. So Serc's behaviour (call bullshit, ram a quick lynch through, then conveniently "counter" on D-day) fits my impression of scum more than the un-provable supposition that Mac was a symp.

Hang on I did everything to discredit Fand from the get go. I'll pull up all relevant quotes.

Serc, not one of us has doubted that you immediately tried to discredit Fanderay. We are saying that THAT is what makes you fucking scummy. If you were a healer, you should have just revealed. Instead you went after a revealed healer the way scum would. Are you really surprised that we're questioning your reveal now because of it?