[Kanese S's]

So, we've got our warrens. And we've got our mages who use them. Some of whom are in various military units or otherwise in situations to use their magics in battle.

It's been a while since I read most of the series, so my memory is hazy on how some of the warrens work in terms of offensive use. Might be something to potentially add to the wiki?

Going down the list (SPOILERS, fucking obviously):

Aral Gamelan (path of demons): summon demons to fight your enemies for you. Fairly self-explanatory.

Denul (path of healing): um... perform medical malpractice? Mainly used in the series to heal people on the mage's own side.

D'riss (path of stone): Not sure how this is used. On the wiki it says a good D'riss mage can petrify someone/something, though. And I think it's what Quick Ben uses to walk through the walls where Bauchelain and Korbal Broach are chilling in Capustan in MoI. Maybe you can throw big rocks at people with it.

Hood's Path (path of death): Not exactly sure. I know it can be (perilously) traveled through, and there are a couple necromancers, but I'm not sure if I saw any raising of the dead or whatever. Maybe you can banish people to it or hitting them with energy from it kills them?

Meanas (path of shadow): Quick Ben uses it to make all sorts of terrifying illusions and drive people mad. It's also frequently used for travel (though this can be dangerous for those without an invite due to the guard dogs). Can it be used to directly kill one's enemies? I'm not sure I remember if that happened. I imagine it can also be used to fool people into thinking that you're somewhere that you're not, or that you aren't where you are.

Mockra (path of the mind): Can be used to read people's thoughts, stupefy and/or trick enemies. Maybe even to destroy their minds utterly.

Rashan (path of darkness): If I recall correctly (which I might not), has illusion properties similar to Meanas. Not sure how it can be directly used to slaughter one's enemies, but Nightchill apparently uses it, so I bet it can.

Ruse (path of the sea): I think I recall in MoI a Bridgeburner squad mage using it to fill a Seerdomin's lungs with seawater. Brutal. Can be used to assist travel as well, I believe. Maybe you can create tidal waves with it?

Serc (path of the sky): Seems to be associated with wind. I guess you can blast people with giant gusts of wind? If there's a connection to storms, maybe you can also hit them with some lightning and stuffs.

Telas (path of fire): Probably the most obvious warren in terms of combat applications. Hit your enemies with fireballs, light them on fire, and they'll probably die.

Tennes (path of the land): Not sure exactly how it's different from D'riss. Maybe it's more "nature" than strictly "the land"? How do you wreck an enemy army with this? Any examples? According to the wiki, Derudan, Brood, and Quick Ben can all use this. Not sure what you do with it, though.

Thyr (path of light): Does it work kinda like fire? Does it burn people because of its brightness being heat as well? It's related to the Tiste Liosan's warren, which seems to involve some burninating, so maybe?



Ahkrast Korvalain: Forkrul Assail warren. Seems to involve forcing people to obey or destroying them with the sound of your voice.

Denaeth Rusen: Basically elder Ruse, so probably used in similar ways.

Kaschan: K'chain warren, not sure how it's actually used.

Kurald Galain: Elder warren of darkness... seems to be used to smack people around pretty directly when used by Tiste Andii. Not sure how that works, though.

Kurald Thyrllan: Elder warren of light. Can it be used to burninate?

Kurald Emurlahn: Elder warren of shadow. Perhaps more useful in combat before it was shattered? Possibly still useful for illusions.

Omtose Phellack: The Jaghut elder warren of ice. Oddly no younger warren equivalent for this, apparently. Anyway, you can freeze your enemies to death with it, I think.

Starvald Demelain: The dergen chaos warren thingus. Maybe blasting your enemies with it kills them because they just can't take the powah?

Tellann: Elder warren of fire. I assume you can burninate the countryside with it much like with Telas.

[D'rek]

All of those sound right, does anyone else get the impression from the books that almost all the warrens can also be used to shoot magic lasers at people, too. It seems to me like at least half the mages, regardless of their warren, can shoot miscellaneous magical energy blasts, too.

[Kanese S's]

D, on 09 March 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

All of those sound right, does anyone else get the impression from the books that almost all the warrens can also be used to shoot magic lasers at people, too. It seems to me like at least half the mages, regardless of their warren, can shoot miscellaneous magical energy blasts, too.

Pew pew!

Yeah, does seem to occur frequently. Maybe it's like getting hit with a solid object, except it's energy?

I have no idea how you kill someone with Darkness, but people seem pretty afraid of Nightchill, Anomander Rake (though mostly of being hit with Dragnipur, actually), etc.

[worry]

It reminds me of "aspected" dragons in other works -- fire-breathing dragons, ice dragons, lightning dragons, poison dragons, etc.

But in this world mages can harness what is essentially dragon's breath. I was about to say "not literally" but who knows? The Eleint are so connected to chaos/sorcery that I don't think there's even supposed to be a biological explanation for their powers.

[Abyss]

DRiss... pretty sure that's what QB used to open a pit under Kallor in MoI.

Tennes... Brood channels his warren at least in part through Burn's hammer, and look what he does with it in MoI.Derudan ages and deages herself in OST, but that may not have been Tennes. Still, if that's an offensive option for Tennes or Denul it would be pretty effective.

Rashan, Meanas, Thyr, Mokra... worth noting the overlap between these means most mages who had one may have at least little of the others, so for example a blast of shadow or darkness may have some heat, or perhaps the absence of heat, and some mind mojo.

[Kanese S's]

death rattle, on 09 March 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

It reminds me of "aspected" dragons in other works -- fire-breathing dragons, ice dragons, lightning dragons, poison dragons, etc.

But in this world mages can harness what is essentially dragon's breath. I was about to say "not literally" but who knows? The Eleint are so connected to chaos/sorcery that I don't think there's even supposed to be a biological explanation for their powers.

I always assumed in Malazan that the eleint aspected to various warrens breathed the sorcery of whatever their warren was.

Abyss, on 09 March 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

DRiss... pretty sure that's what QB used to open a pit under Kallor in MoI.

Tennes... Brood channels his warren at least in part through Burn's hammer, and look what he does with it in MoI.Derudan ages and deages herself in OST, but that may not have been Tennes. Still, if that's an offensive option for Tennes or Denul it would be pretty effective.

Rashan, Meanas, Thyr, Mokra... worth noting the overlap between these means most mages who had one may have at least little of the others, so for example a blast of shadow or darkness may have some heat, or perhaps the absence of heat, and some mind mojo.

Actually that reminds me... the gate of darkness at the heart of the wagon in the warren within Dragnipur, the chains going to it are described as icy and cold. Darkness having a cold element to it would also go with Nightchill/Sister of Cold Nights.

On the wiki, Tennes is described as having something to do with the passing of the seasons, so that could be how Derudan ages and de-ages herself.

[Kellanved's shadow]

In regards to killing someone with darkness we see that all the soldiers that get hit by Anomander Rake disappear except for their clothes (don't know why that happens).
IIRC in RotCG the mages use Denule to survive being decapitated (something to do with trying to find a different path to Ascendancy).
Omptose Phellack can be used to freeze the soul according to Paran in GotM. (this was how the Tyrants created their slaves I assume).
Mokra can be used to liquefy ones brain as seen when that Crimson Guardsmen did it in MT.
DL showed that Thyr is mostly used to blind your opponents. It can be used to burn them as well but that takes more concentration and energy.
Rashan is mostly used for stealth as seen with the Claw assassins as well as the Shadow Dance. The Shadow Dance can also be used by none magic users as well somehow.
Serc can be used to fly like what Quick Ben did in MoI as well as kill by rapidly changing the air pressure. (This is what Quick Ben originally thought happened to that Tiste Edur body they found in MoI until he realized that it was killed by a really powerful practitioner of Ruse, probably one of the bodies that Mael dropped in the Ocean in MT).

Apart from those specific ways, all warrens can use energy blasts except for Mokra and Meanas. I have never seen Mokra and Meanas users shown to use energy blasts.

[Jhag Sidean]

Quote

Serc (path of the sky): Seems to be associated with wind. I guess you can blast people with giant gusts of wind? If there's a connection to storms, maybe you can also hit them with some lightning and stuffs.

There was also something in MoI about using Serc to internaly implode victims, although that wasn't a newbie trick i think.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Kellanved, on 17 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Serc can be used to fly like what Quick Ben did in MoI as well as kill by rapidly changing the air pressure. (This is what Quick Ben originally thought happened to that Tiste Edur body they found in MoI until he realized that it was killed by a really powerful practitioner of Ruse, probably one of the bodies that Mael dropped in the Ocean in MT).

Apart from those specific ways, all warrens can use energy blasts except for Mokra and Meanas. I have never seen Mokra and Meanas users shown to use energy blasts.

Actually doesnt that kill go to Mael? if I recall it correctly In MT he took one of the Edur, (cant recall his name) "home." Basicly really powerful Ruse practitioners can snap you to the deepest part of the ocean where you get hit by an uber case of the bends.

This idea can probably translate to all the warrens, snap transport to the deepest most hostile parts of a warren like thyr would be like a snap teleport to the heart of the sun, I'd like to think powerful driss practitioners can snap you into the earth core. Death by planet.

Edit: that would be Tennes, not driss. Not really sure what D'riss is, just that its an agent of decay. The heart of D'riss could be something like a sulphuric lake?

This post has been edited by Dolmen 2.0: 25 March 2017 - 08:46 AM

[D'rek]

Dolmen 2.0, on 25 March 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

Kellanved, on 17 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Serc can be used to fly like what Quick Ben did in MoI as well as kill by rapidly changing the air pressure. (This is what Quick Ben originally thought happened to that Tiste Edur body they found in MoI until he realized that it was killed by a really powerful practitioner of Ruse, probably one of the bodies that Mael dropped in the Ocean in MT).

Apart from those specific ways, all warrens can use energy blasts except for Mokra and Meanas. I have never seen Mokra and Meanas users shown to use energy blasts.

Actually doesnt that kill go to Mael? if I recall it correctly In MT he took one of the Edur, (cant recall his name) "home." Basicly really powerful Ruse practitioners can snap you to the deepest part of the ocean where you get hit by an uber case of the bends.

Mael counts as a "skilled/powerful practitioner of Ruse". But yes, that's who/how it was. The Edur was Theradas Buhn.

[JoeBob1024]

Um... I'm a new reader who just started the books in December. I'm almost through with dust of dreams right now. So I'm worried about sounding dumb or like I don't know what I'm talking about, but isn't Korbal Broach a necromancer who reanimates corpses? I don't know how to quote here, but you said that you couldn't remember anyone doing that with Hood's Warren right?

Also, didn't deadsmell heal people with hood's Warren AND fight with it? Not sure.

This post has been edited by JoeBob1024: 08 April 2017 - 05:56 PM

[Kanese S's]

Korbal Broach is a necromancer, yes. I would guess that most necromancy uses Hood's warren.

[Kanese S's]

Kellanved, on 17 March 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

In regards to killing someone with darkness we see that all the soldiers that get hit by Anomander Rake disappear except for their clothes (don't know why that happens).
IIRC in RotCG the mages use Denule to survive being decapitated (something to do with trying to find a different path to Ascendancy).
Omptose Phellack can be used to freeze the soul according to Paran in GotM. (this was how the Tyrants created their slaves I assume).
Mokra can be used to liquefy ones brain as seen when that Crimson Guardsmen did it in MT.
DL showed that Thyr is mostly used to blind your opponents. It can be used to burn them as well but that takes more concentration and energy.
Rashan is mostly used for stealth as seen with the Claw assassins as well as the Shadow Dance. The Shadow Dance can also be used by none magic users as well somehow.
Serc can be used to fly like what Quick Ben did in MoI as well as kill by rapidly changing the air pressure. (This is what Quick Ben originally thought happened to that Tiste Edur body they found in MoI until he realized that it was killed by a really powerful practitioner of Ruse, probably one of the bodies that Mael dropped in the Ocean in MT).

Apart from those specific ways, all warrens can use energy blasts except for Mokra and Meanas. I have never seen Mokra and Meanas users shown to use energy blasts.

That makes sense.

[Adhara]

Abyss, on 09 March 2017 - 04:35 AM, said:

DRiss... pretty sure that's what QB used to open a pit under Kallor in MoI

I think the "hole-in-the-floor" thing was Tennes.

[McTaco]

Kanese S, on 10 April 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

Korbal Broach is a necromancer, yes. I would guess that most necromancy uses Hood's warren.

Pran Chole mentions that he's tinkering with Chaos at the edge of Hood's realm. I think necromancy is one of the more interesting magic types in MBotF. Unlike a lot of the other "schools of magic", which seems to reward both natural skill and practice, necromancy seems to fall into the "give or take" variety.

Spoiler

Hood offers Deadsmell the opportunity to work with his magic, whereas Korbal just uses and manipulates it to his own end. Often with hilarious/dark consequences. At the end when Hood dies, Deadsmell gets access to Omtose, but I have a feeling Korbal did not.

Tasty stuff that necromance.

[Kellanved's shadow]

I also forgot to Add that Ruse can be used to fill ones lungs with liquid. Essentially drowning them when there not even in water. Ruse can also allow you to sail through ruff seas without any difficulties.
I believe Quick Ben used D'riss to walk through stone walls in MoI.
the Fokrul Assail can used there Warren to control minds as well as disintegrate flesh and stone by screaming.

Those are all the special cases of Warren manipulation that I can remember of the top of my head.

[Lamora]

There are some interesting uses of Warrens in Deadhouse Landing with Thyr, Meanes, and Rashan that can be added. I am not sure of adding spoilers here, so I advise reading the book to see how Esslemont adds new things and sheds light on some warrens.