[Andorion]

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

A few things really stuck out

Faria predicts how the French state will fare based on the history of 17th C England, and he is very close to reality! A few kings, a revolution, another king, concessions, liberty - So after the Bourbon's lost in 1848. Louis Napoleon ruled as Emperor, but after 1871. France became a republic. Dumas did a great job at prediction.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

I loved the interview with Caderousse. He turned out quite decent in his own way.

Did anyone else think Dantes' powers came off a bit exaggarated in the Morrel episode? How did he just assume his entire debt? Did he just buy the English bank?

An issue I am starting to see is the treatment of women. Dantes was understandably bitter about Mercedes marrying, but I can't really fault her. She thought Edmond was dead, she was penniless, so she married Fernand. From her perspective, she was at least marrying someone she knew, someone she was sure had tender feelings for her.

Also Caderousse's wife is the stereotypical greedy shrew.

I am on chapter 37 now, and just a warning to everyone, the pace slows down quite a bit, and there are a few bulky chapters.

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

[Andorion]

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

Faria's death and his subsequent escape - I think this was a coming of age event for him, when he finally emerges into the world for the first time with all of the education and training he had received for so long.

The discovery of the treasure: When he realizes that he can actually do what he has been wanting to do for so long.

The meeting with Caderousse: When his worst suspicions are confirmed and his path is reaffirmed,

About the grotto - When Dantes displays all the fancy food I was strongly reminded of 20000 Leagues, when Captain Nemo introduces Professor Arronax to his first undersea banquet. I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

It seems likely. 'Eastern' culture was commonly romanticised in a lot of literature, and Dumas constantly references Arabian Nights. Those scenes have many similarities.

I'm finding some nice cross over with Patrick o'Brians characters and political situation at this point - Jack Aubrey and Maturin were also dealing with the Bey Ali Pasha at this point.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 04 March 2017 - 08:53 AM

[Andorion]

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

It seems likely. 'Eastern' culture was commonly romanticised in a lot of literature, and Dumas constantly references Arabian Nights. Those scenes have many similarities.

I'm finding some nice cross over with Patrick o'Brians characters and political situation at this point - Jack Aubrey and Maturin were also dealing with the Bey Ali Pasha at this point.

I need to get onto that series. Heard a lot of good things about it.

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

It seems likely. 'Eastern' culture was commonly romanticised in a lot of literature, and Dumas constantly references Arabian Nights. Those scenes have many similarities.

I'm finding some nice cross over with Patrick o'Brians characters and political situation at this point - Jack Aubrey and Maturin were also dealing with the Bey Ali Pasha at this point.

I need to get onto that series. Heard a lot of good things about it.

My favorite historical novels bar none. Pure excellence.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 10:15 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

It seems likely. 'Eastern' culture was commonly romanticised in a lot of literature, and Dumas constantly references Arabian Nights. Those scenes have many similarities.

I'm finding some nice cross over with Patrick o'Brians characters and political situation at this point - Jack Aubrey and Maturin were also dealing with the Bey Ali Pasha at this point.

I need to get onto that series. Heard a lot of good things about it.

Yeah, me too. Read the Hornblower novels ages ago and was really into that marine stuff back then.

[Mentalist]

Ok, did the weekend read to get caught up, an up to ch.... 33? (my book is split so that each part starts the numbers from scratch. It's Ch 12 in Pt2)

Spoiler

Goddamn, but Dumas got me with Morrel almost suiciding. I may have shed a few happy tears, this book still gets to me

Caderousse' story, and especially on how Danglar and Fernan both made it in life sounds very much like "and these are the enemies you must now defeat". I have very vague recollections of how the whole thing ends, but I completely forgot the awesome "King of the Smugglers" part.

In terms of why no one questioned his departure- Dantes did explain (kind of), that he was being a sailor for fun, and now he got inheritance from his uncle. There's a line about Giacopo that says "since he previously recognized his speech to be more cultured than an average sailor, it was easy to believe that story".

In terms of the English Bank- I'm pretty sure it was bank Dantes made up and bought up Morrel's debts.

In terms of his transformation in to Sinbad- this can be several things

1) Dantes could have indulged in his riches to experience the Orient, seeking perhaps "wisdom" there, since the classical education he got from Faria would refer to this alternative tradition
2) He could cultivate the image in order to build up his resources and influence among the Mediterranean smugglers, who would make the most versatile agents for him.

And yeah, Berber slaves... that's a common theme for the picaresque romances of the time. I'm reminded of Stephenson's Baroque cycle that was written tryign to emulate that style. (And now I want to re-read it. Damnit)

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 04 March 2017 - 10:51 PM

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

Faria's death and his subsequent escape - I think this was a coming of age event for him, when he finally emerges into the world for the first time with all of the education and training he had received for so long.

The discovery of the treasure: When he realizes that he can actually do what he has been wanting to do for so long.

The meeting with Caderousse: When his worst suspicions are confirmed and his path is reaffirmed,

About the grotto - When Dantes displays all the fancy food I was strongly reminded of 20000 Leagues, when Captain Nemo introduces Professor Arronax to his first undersea banquet. I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

Spoiler

Verne totally read Dumas. His Voyages Extraordinaires: Mathias Sandorf are Count of Monte Christo meets Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, only set during the Hungarian revolt against Austria and with more techno fun and some cryptograms. Sandorf doesn't get a mere yacht, he gets a submarine. Verne even dedicated that novel to Dumas.

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 05 March 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 08:20 AM, said:

Traveller, on 04 March 2017 - 07:17 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 March 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Thoughts on chapters 16-30

Spoiler

I really loved the Faria parts. Edmond had to learn and mature and Faria is an awesome character

I laughed out loud when he dissected the conspiracy.

I thought Dantes' departure from the smuggles was very hurried. No one was curious where he got all the money from?

Yes,that bit had me smiling too.

Spoiler

Dantes departure is sudden. I found this when I last read it, this is what I neant earlier. As he is no longer referred to as Edmond Dantes (except in some exceptional circumstances) and he behaves quite differently from the young man at the start, and the escapee.. it almost feels like Dantes is gone from the story. The man we find in his richly adorned grotto talking about knowing Ali Pasha and eating hashish is a real jump from the freedom loving, simple sailor. I don't know if this is done on purpose to show how money, power and vengeance corrupts (I suspect so) but it means that we essentially lose the Edmond we know at this point; which is a bit of a shame.

I would pinpoint three crucial events in Dantes' transformation

Spoiler

Faria's death and his subsequent escape - I think this was a coming of age event for him, when he finally emerges into the world for the first time with all of the education and training he had received for so long.

The discovery of the treasure: When he realizes that he can actually do what he has been wanting to do for so long.

The meeting with Caderousse: When his worst suspicions are confirmed and his path is reaffirmed,

About the grotto - When Dantes displays all the fancy food I was strongly reminded of 20000 Leagues, when Captain Nemo introduces Professor Arronax to his first undersea banquet. I wonder if Verne read Dumas.

Spoiler

Verne totally read Dumas. His Voyages Extraordinaires: Mathias Sandorf are Count of Monte Christo meets Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, only set during the Hungarian revolt against Austria and with more techno fun and some cryptograms. Sandorf doesn't get a mere yacht, he gets a submarine. Verne even dedicated that novel to Dumas.

That is very cool! Thanks for the input!

Regarding the reread, I have finished chapter 46

[JPK]

Alright, I've updated the OP with this weeks assignment. Discussion up to chapter 15 no longer requires spoiler tags.

I've fallen about 3 chapters behind due to a really busy weekend, but I plan on catching up this morning while the baby takes her nap.

Spoiler up until chapter 20.

Spoiler

I will say that I'm amazed at how Dumas made the Abbe so endearing and memorable in such a short amount of time. When you think about the size of the work, he's around for less than 100 pages (giant penguin edition) but he's so very well realized. It's also a lasting effect, I can't think about tCoMC without thinking of the Abbe.

Apt, did your focus day help to draw you into the material any further?

I hope you contine to enjoy the next week's chapter guys, and potentially the rest of the book, Ando)

[Andorion]

Chapters 31-46

I am seeing a significant slowdown of pace in these chapers.

Spoiler

I am not entirely sure about what the Count did - did he plan Albert's abduction so as to get Albert to owe him?

His strategy for social interaction is quite strange. He presents himself in such a different way, he cannot help but standout. He really makes an impression on people.

It's interesting how everybody turned out

Danglars is super-successful and super-rich but still an asshole

Villefort seems to be succesful

Fernand is succesful but seems to have mellowed a bit. Definitely not as angsty now.

Mercedes clearly recognised him, though I am sure she is questioning her own sanity at the moment.

What is remarkable is how coldly the Count presents himself, but we get occasional glimpses of passion. This entire task is an exercise in self-control for him

[Mentalist]

Did another week in one sitting.

Spoiler

I don't think he planned the abduction. It feels like one of those serendipities novels often rely on. Obviously I can be wrong.

It's interesting how Dumas is setting up the issue of "inherited guilt". I don't remember basically anything out of the details of what happens, but my initial feeling right now is that the kids of all of the 3 villains (and also Morrel-Jr) will become involved. Now, the kids are innocent of the fathers' crimes (and so far Albert seems like a very likable fellow), but will this stop the Count from using them to get to the parents?

Given his speech at the execution in Rome, it seems he shouldn't balk at this, since that'd be the most exquisite revenge possible. At this point, I remember next to nothing, so I honestly don't know.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 12 March 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

Did another week in one sitting.

Spoiler

I don't think he planned the abduction. It feels like one of those serendipities novels often rely on. Obviously I can be wrong.

It's interesting how Dumas is setting up the issue of "inherited guilt". I don't remember basically anything out of the details of what happens, but my initial feeling right now is that the kids of all of the 3 villains (and also Morrel-Jr) will become involved. Now, the kids are innocent of the fathers' crimes (and so far Albert seems like a very likable fellow), but will this stop the Count from using them to get to the parents?

Given his speech at the execution in Rome, it seems he shouldn't balk at this, since that'd be the most exquisite revenge possible. At this point, I remember next to nothing, so I honestly don't know.

Spoiler

I absolutely think he is going to use the kids.

Not because he thinks the kids are guilty but because he has become utterly ruthless and they are nothing but the means to an end for him.

I doubt if he is going to use Morrel though. He seems to have a very soft spot for that family.

[Andorion]

Chapter 52

Spoiler

This lengthy discussion on toxicology bored me to begin with, but when I finished it I had three thoughts

1. It would be awesome if Monte Cristo was basically trolling M Villefort and trying to get her to gradually poison herself with daily doses. But I think this to be unlikely

2. I think the discussion in the last part of the chapter about the poison he used to revive her son is heavy foreshadowing.

3. I think for large parts of the chapter Dumas talked directly to the reader, demonstrating how the Count can poison all his enemies easily, but he does not, preferring more devious and presumably more painful means.

[JPK]

Ok, I've updated the OP again for the current weeks dates and numbers.

As far as my read goes, it's been a long week and I'm sitting at the start of chapter 37. A couple of the chapters at the beginning of last weeks material were about twice the length of the average. I'm aiming to be caught up before I go to bed tonight.

[Traveller]

They are long chapters - not that easy to read in short bursts, especially when there's a story in a story and I have to stop reading halfway though one.

[Traveller]

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the Countess in Rome is referred to as 'Countess G---?' Like her name is deliberately omitted?

Edit.. Franz and Albert in Rome remind me of Frasier and Niles!

This post has been edited by Traveller: 14 March 2017 - 12:23 PM

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 12 March 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Chapters 31-46

I am seeing a significant slowdown of pace in these chapers.

Spoiler

I am not entirely sure about what the Count did - did he plan Albert's abduction so as to get Albert to owe him?

His strategy for social interaction is quite strange. He presents himself in such a different way, he cannot help but standout. He really makes an impression on people.

It's interesting how everybody turned out

Danglars is super-successful and super-rich but still an asshole

Villefort seems to be succesful

Fernand is succesful but seems to have mellowed a bit. Definitely not as angsty now.

Mercedes clearly recognised him, though I am sure she is questioning her own sanity at the moment.

What is remarkable is how coldly the Count presents himself, but we get occasional glimpses of passion. This entire task is an exercise in self-control for him

Re. Albert

Spoiler

it seemed to me very much like the Count has so many people helping him precisely because of schemes like this... he gets loyalty and service not just because pays well but because he gets them to owe him. Peppino is a good example, which is demonstrated right before the abduction. I think the Count orchestrated it to get Albert in his debt, and to further convince him that he is a friend - to allay any suspicions about his future plans

[Traveller]

Andorion, on 12 March 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Chapters 31-46

I am seeing a significant slowdown of pace in these chapers.

Spoiler

I am not entirely sure about what the Count did - did he plan Albert's abduction so as to get Albert to owe him?

His strategy for social interaction is quite strange. He presents himself in such a different way, he cannot help but standout. He really makes an impression on people.

It's interesting how everybody turned out

Danglars is super-successful and super-rich but still an asshole

Villefort seems to be succesful

Fernand is succesful but seems to have mellowed a bit. Definitely not as angsty now.

Mercedes clearly recognised him, though I am sure she is questioning her own sanity at the moment.

What is remarkable is how coldly the Count presents himself, but we get occasional glimpses of passion. This entire task is an exercise in self-control for him

Re. Albert

Spoiler

it seemed to me very much like the Count has so many people helping him precisely because of schemes like this... he gets loyalty and service not just because pays well but because he gets them to owe him. Peppino is a good example, which is demonstrated right before the abduction. I think the Count orchestrated it to get Albert in his debt, and to further convince him that he is a friend - to allay any suspicions about his future plans. Oh, and he wants an introduction into Parisian society.