[Bek Okhan]

Hanas, on 28 December 2016 - 03:33 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 December 2016 - 11:29 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 27 December 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 December 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

vote Serc




because of all the joke votes that one makes the least sense.

Interesting, we crossposted on votes out of the Pallid/Serc/Alkend trio but found different players out of the three suspicious! Care to elaborate on what made you pick the one you did?

Pallid's vote on TS is stupid, because TS isn't actually role-speculating, just talking about the possibility of role speculating.

But when serc votes Pallid, instead of giving this type of reasoning, he makes a joke vote, based on the wording of Pallid's own vote post.

It feels of trying to fit in too much.

Alkend's vote on Serc follows the same pattern, but Serc's response feels like it's stretching the initial "joke" part of all 3 votes too thin.

That seems kinda different reason than just "least sense joke vote", and why did you need Fande's prompt to provide the more elaborate reason? It looks like you're jsut trying to get some vote in without actually caring about the reasons you provided and only making up better reasons when asked to - the lack of heart that Fande mentioned.

All 3 tried to pass their votes off as joke votes. Serc's felt the least like it to me. SO I voted saying it felt the most forced.

I guess next time I'll make sure to write "out of the votes that try to present themselves as joke votes, this one seems the most forced"

[Bek Okhan]

Ultama, on 28 December 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

I'd say this is subject to interpretation - metagaming is speculation after all. But I see your point and discussing it further doesn't make much sense anyway.

I reread the thread and don't really have a better idea than Tulas right now. They got really jumpy under a very slight pressure and that's not a good sign. Mockra's attempts at directing the thread are no bueno as well, but they're rather aggressive, not sure if scum would play like that D1. So I will stick with the Tulas hunch.

Leaving for drinks, so not sure if I will be around later, will try to drop by the thread before going to sleep tho.

Meta used to be smth only scum did. But lots of people have been using meta in lots of ways, so that part of the rules is kinda obsolete now.

[Bek Okhan]

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Bek Okhan, on 27 December 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

vote Serc




because of all the joke votes that one makes the least sense.

And Alkend's vote on Serc didn't bother you?

Same logic applies, but if I find vote number 2 in a chain weird, I'm inclined to give benefit of a doubt someone else voting the same person (since I already have a suspicion about the very same person they are voting)

[Bek Okhan]

Fanderay, on 28 December 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 28 December 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

Hmm, why have you not shared that list? IF you died AND CFed town then we surely would find that useful? Now I'm wondering, did your knowledge about one of these conditions being false stopped you from sharing it?

Reasonable point. Someone keeps telling me that scum love lists so I tend to keep them to myself. But I guess the players I don't really feel like I know much about are:

Bek Okhan
Serc
Omtose

So hoping to try and get a better read on them at my next opportunity.

Omtose is playing?

[Bek Okhan]

Omtose, on 25 December 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

First

Omtose, on 25 December 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

Of??

If maybe?

Omtose, on 25 December 2016 - 11:22 PM, said:

I suspect we have at least one ladder truck, two tankers, one pump truck, and 3 ambulances/emt vehicles.

Two arsonists and a fire watcher.

Omtose, on 25 December 2016 - 11:23 PM, said:

😇

Omtose, on 27 December 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Mockra, on 27 December 2016 - 02:00 AM, said:

Fanderay, on 27 December 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

So, the game is officially afoot! Anyone actually going to say anything now the timer is running?

What's stopping you from doing it?

Ooh, ooh. I knows, I knows!

He's shy?

Ok, I guess this is why I missed Omtose's existence.

[Bek Okhan]

SO, Pallid's case was on TS, largely because TS was being defended by Mockra.

And ppl either thought TS's "woe is me, I got one vote and surely I shall perish" speech was genuine town, OR, they saw Mockra as "voice of reason" OR they felt Pallid was too jumpy to be innocent.




That's the first 4 votes. Not talking about the last minute switches who were more interested in Gamelon, because.... he didn't give good answers? I think?

[Bek Okhan]

I'll have some time tomorrow morning before work and I'll check in then. Hopefully we'll get PS posting a resolution by then.

[Path-Shaper]

sorry for the delay guys let me get caught up with the night orders and lynching

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 1.25 hours remain,

12 Players still alive:

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

1 vote serc:, BO,
7 vote pallid:serc. mockra, Aparal forge, fanderay, hanas, pallid.ultama


Players not voted:Gamelon,tulas, Alkend, Omtose

As per majority rule

Pallid has been lynched

Pallid was Tatts and a detective (RI)

Night order time

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 December 2016 - 03:39 AM

[Path-Shaper]

Night order done.

Yall wake up to find that Bek Okhan, who was Mentalist and Raye penbar, one of the fbi agents, has been eliminated by kira (ironic since in the series thats the first policeman to die by kiras hands)

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 December 2016 - 03:38 AM

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 2 48 hours remain (10 :30pm local time)

10 players alives

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes for night

Players not voted: Serc Mockra, Aparal forge,fanderay,hanas,ultama, gamelon,,tulas,alkend, omtose

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 December 2016 - 03:41 AM

[Mockra]

Path-Shaper, on 29 December 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:

It is day 2 48 hours remain (10 :30pm local time)

10 players alives

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes for night

Players not voted: Serc Mockra, Aparal forge,fanderay,hanas, pallid,ultama, gamelon,,tulas,alkend, omtose

Pretty sure Pallid was lynched yesterday PS.

[Path-Shaper]

ok i think someones suggestion of using the mafia manager is becoming more and more appealing.

[Aparal Forge]

Not much to gain off the Pallid lynch other than resistance to the TS or Gamelon trains. Will have to look back at Bek to see if he ruffled any feathers other than Serc's. ATM, I'm still feeling like there was something about Pallid's TS vote... but I need to reread. If Pallid was TRULY RI, then why did he miss out on leaving some thoughts behind before offering a self-hammer vote?

[Mockra]

Doing a quick reread of the Pallid lynch.

Vote 1: Serc, a joke vote. I didn't notice this vote on Pallid before I made my case and laid down my vote.

Vote 2: Me (Mockra), I thought Pallid's voting pattern on thread was suspicious. Added to the lack of any substance whatsoever to his posts made me vote him.

Vote 3: Alkend, this one swung to vote in Pallid's direction. At this point there were two votes on TS (Ultama and AP) and two votes on Gameleon (Fanderay and Pallid).
Hanas then proceeds to vote for Gameleon to balance the two trains.

Vote 4: AP switches their vote from TS.
Ultama proceeds to change their vote from TS to Gameleon.

Vote 5: Fanderay switches over from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 6: Hanas switches from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 7: Ultama Hammers.
I found AP's resistance to the Pallid lynch not that suspicious.

In this whole debacle, something didn't feel right at all. I remember seeing posts from Gameleon after Fanderay made their case and voted for Gameleon. He even defended himself by answering Fanderay's case. However, even though Gam was around when he was a viable candidate for a lynch (the 2-2-2 lock off with Pallid and TS after people started piling away from TS), they never voted for anyone to swing the train. This does not look like a town thing to do.

A normal townie would attempt to deflect the lynch train away from themselves (because they are sure of their own identity and unsure of other people's identities - Pallid demonstrated this perfectly during the lynch train by voting for Gam - It is even partly the reason OMGUS votes exist). Gameleon not doing this makes me suspect that he was unwilling to commit to swinging the lynch towards Pallid because he knew Pallid would CF town, and he didn't want to draw attention as the person who swung the vote to the other direction.

I'm going to

Vote Gameleon

for now.

I would note that the Ultama vote hopping to all three viable lynch trains and then hammering remarkable as well. However, I'm not sure if that is an overeager town or scum trying to fit in.

[Mockra]

I also tried to look for all of BO's activities on thread. Her vote on Serc and the above posts regarding Omtose's lack of valuable posts is pretty much all they did.

I have to admit that Omtose has done shit all on thread so far. The same is true about Serc.

[Fanderay]

Mockra, on 29 December 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Doing a quick reread of the Pallid lynch.

Vote 1: Serc, a joke vote. I didn't notice this vote on Pallid before I made my case and laid down my vote.

Vote 2: Me (Mockra), I thought Pallid's voting pattern on thread was suspicious. Added to the lack of any substance whatsoever to his posts made me vote him.

Vote 3: Alkend, this one swung to vote in Pallid's direction. At this point there were two votes on TS (Ultama and AP) and two votes on Gameleon (Fanderay and Pallid).
Hanas then proceeds to vote for Gameleon to balance the two trains.

Vote 4: AP switches their vote from TS.
Ultama proceeds to change their vote from TS to Gameleon.

Vote 5: Fanderay switches over from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 6: Hanas switches from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 7: Ultama Hammers.
I found AP's resistance to the Pallid lynch not that suspicious.

In this whole debacle, something didn't feel right at all. I remember seeing posts from Gameleon after Fanderay made their case and voted for Gameleon. He even defended himself by answering Fanderay's case. However, even though Gam was around when he was a viable candidate for a lynch (the 2-2-2 lock off with Pallid and TS after people started piling away from TS), they never voted for anyone to swing the train. This does not look like a town thing to do.

A normal townie would attempt to deflect the lynch train away from themselves (because they are sure of their own identity and unsure of other people's identities - Pallid demonstrated this perfectly during the lynch train by voting for Gam - It is even partly the reason OMGUS votes exist). Gameleon not doing this makes me suspect that he was unwilling to commit to swinging the lynch towards Pallid because he knew Pallid would CF town, and he didn't want to draw attention as the person who swung the vote to the other direction.

I'm going to

Vote Gameleon

for now.

I would note that the Ultama vote hopping to all three viable lynch trains and then hammering remarkable as well. However, I'm not sure if that is an overeager town or scum trying to fit in.

There were some interesting behaviours as the timer was running down. I agree with you that I found Gamelon's behaviour suspicious. As I saw it, it went something like:

- I put up a case on Gamelon. It's not that strong, just a bit of weirdness coupled with some gut instinct
- Gamelon defends
- Pallid feels that Gamelon's defence is suspicious and votes for him.
- Gamelon, thinking that their defensiveness is doing more harm than good, runs away.

At this point it wasn't really clear to me what the vote count was, but perhaps as a person with votes on him Pallid was more sensitive to it. Normally Pallid 'becoming convinced' by my case is something that would make me suspicious, but Pallid may well have seen the momentum shifting away from a TS vote and decided that his best chance to avoid being lynched was to try to help form a train for someone else.

So Pallid's play makes sense, but I don't like Gamelon's sudden disappearance. If he wasn't planning on being back before timeout, he should have put a vote down before he left. The fact that he vanished without a trace makes me think that he deliberately ran away.

[Fanderay]

Anyway, Pallid CFed town so his behaviour is less important. More interesting is that of the players who were around near the end of the day. Those are:

- Alkend
- Aparal Forge
- Hanas
- Ultama
- Me

Of these, Ultama, Hanas and myself were willing to vote Gamelon, but Alkend and Aparal Forge were not. So we have to consider the hypothesis that one or both of these two were trying to get the train away from Gamelon. Of the two, I find AF's behaviour more suspicious. He starts off by putting up a case of incredible tenuousness that just so happens to (a) be on the vote leader at the time, and (b ) is very soon after two votes were dropped on Gamelon.

But that doesn't work because most people on thread are leaning away from Tulas Shorn at this point. So he looks at the available options and decides:

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

I would consider a switch to Pallid, but i thibk he's acting like a symp. I'll be on before timeout to change if i need to.

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

if no one else is feeking Tulas, I prefer Pallid.

remove vote vote Pallid

im not confident on numbers at this point

So in the first post he doesn't consider Gamelon to be relevant at all. And then in the second, note the nudge at the bottom to focus everyone's minds on the lack of players online - this can also be read as "I've voted this way, and now we don't have enough to lynch Gamelon so you'll just have to switch". Seems like classic behaviour to try to swing the lynch.

Now to be fair, I should point out that he does acknowledge and dismiss the Gamelon case here, so it's not like he's ignoring it, just treating it as not worth his time.

The way I see it, if Gamelon is scum, Aparal Forge is a good candidate for also being scum (either partner or symp).

EDIT: fixing the ( - I always forget.

This post has been edited by Fanderay: 29 December 2016 - 12:56 PM

[Gamelon]

Fanderay, on 29 December 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

Mockra, on 29 December 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Doing a quick reread of the Pallid lynch.

Vote 1: Serc, a joke vote. I didn't notice this vote on Pallid before I made my case and laid down my vote.

Vote 2: Me (Mockra), I thought Pallid's voting pattern on thread was suspicious. Added to the lack of any substance whatsoever to his posts made me vote him.

Vote 3: Alkend, this one swung to vote in Pallid's direction. At this point there were two votes on TS (Ultama and AP) and two votes on Gameleon (Fanderay and Pallid).
Hanas then proceeds to vote for Gameleon to balance the two trains.

Vote 4: AP switches their vote from TS.
Ultama proceeds to change their vote from TS to Gameleon.

Vote 5: Fanderay switches over from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 6: Hanas switches from Gameleon to get a lynch.

Vote 7: Ultama Hammers.
I found AP's resistance to the Pallid lynch not that suspicious.

In this whole debacle, something didn't feel right at all. I remember seeing posts from Gameleon after Fanderay made their case and voted for Gameleon. He even defended himself by answering Fanderay's case. However, even though Gam was around when he was a viable candidate for a lynch (the 2-2-2 lock off with Pallid and TS after people started piling away from TS), they never voted for anyone to swing the train. This does not look like a town thing to do.

A normal townie would attempt to deflect the lynch train away from themselves (because they are sure of their own identity and unsure of other people's identities - Pallid demonstrated this perfectly during the lynch train by voting for Gam - It is even partly the reason OMGUS votes exist). Gameleon not doing this makes me suspect that he was unwilling to commit to swinging the lynch towards Pallid because he knew Pallid would CF town, and he didn't want to draw attention as the person who swung the vote to the other direction.

I'm going to

Vote Gameleon

for now.

I would note that the Ultama vote hopping to all three viable lynch trains and then hammering remarkable as well. However, I'm not sure if that is an overeager town or scum trying to fit in.

There were some interesting behaviours as the timer was running down. I agree with you that I found Gamelon's behaviour suspicious. As I saw it, it went something like:

- I put up a case on Gamelon. It's not that strong, just a bit of weirdness coupled with some gut instinct
- Gamelon defends
- Pallid feels that Gamelon's defence is suspicious and votes for him.
- Gamelon, thinking that their defensiveness is doing more harm than good, runs away.

At this point it wasn't really clear to me what the vote count was, but perhaps as a person with votes on him Pallid was more sensitive to it. Normally Pallid 'becoming convinced' by my case is something that would make me suspicious, but Pallid may well have seen the momentum shifting away from a TS vote and decided that his best chance to avoid being lynched was to try to help form a train for someone else.

So Pallid's play makes sense, but I don't like Gamelon's sudden disappearance. If he wasn't planning on being back before timeout, he should have put a vote down before he left. The fact that he vanished without a trace makes me think that he deliberately ran away.

Right, to address both your concerns, the simple answer is that after talking Tulas off the ledge I fell asleep. I had already answered Fand's case to which he never really posted a rebuttal.

As for my comment on nothing springing to the eye which seemed to tick people off, I meant that nothing had stood out except for the stuff I noticed last time (which Fand very kindly quoted in post 102). The exception was of course suicidal Tulas who I directly addressed.

Now, all this AF stuff is pretty new to me, so if you will excuse me, I have some reading to do

[Gamelon]

Ok so AF seems to be a lot of noise but lacking a bit in substance and I think Fand and Hanas refuted him very effectively here.

Fanderay, on 28 December 2016 - 08:04 PM, said:

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Well, i DID, but if it helps...

Pallid signals TS with a joke. Either Serc or Alkend's vote looks like a reaction to TS getting notice. Pallid removes and tries to make it look like his TS vote wasnt anything special.

TS realizes he's drawn too much heat too early, and moves to sacrifice himself for team scum, but lets hi self be talmed off the ledge.

OK, thanks. It feels much more likely to me that if a scum team see an early vote on one of the pair that they'd try and distance rather than leaping to the others' defence like that, so I'm not sure I buy your argument.

Do you have any opinions about the rest of the players? As a low poster up to this point it would be good to know more about how you feel about the game.

Hanas, on 28 December 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

Hanas, on 28 December 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 28 December 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Nice of you to join us, AF. So can you break down the sequence of events you think happened here a bit more? Are you saying that you think Serc and TS are partnered and Serc reacted to Pallid's vote with an immediate OMGUS by proxy? I'm not quite seeing where the Alkend-as-possible-partner comes from.

Well, i DID, but if it helps...

Pallid signals TS with a joke. Either Serc or Alkend's vote looks like a reaction to TS getting notice. Pallid removes and tries to make it look like his TS vote wasnt anything special.

TS realizes he's drawn too much heat too early, and moves to sacrifice himself for team scum, but lets hi self be talmed off the ledge.

That's too much assumptions to base a D1 case on, and how would his sacrifice help scum anyway?

Distancing because he pulled heat too early.

He could've distanced WITHOUT sacrificing himself, I really don't particularly like your sequence of one liners followed with the vote summary and this argument

Fanderay, on 28 December 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:

Hanas, on 28 December 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 28 December 2016 - 05:39 PM, said:

So apparently I'm having tone issues again. That's ok. Like I said earlier, I'd rather live to play longer but my lynch will provide answers to town and close the case on me. I don't want that haunting town into day 2, because it will end up circling back to that.

vote Tulas

Is this a fucking joke? Answers to what precisely? That Pallid's vague suspicions about you being protected by Mockra even though you had no votes at yourself are wrong? Well what a worthy fucking trade! Hope you're at least roled so it's not so enormously unfair to scum. This can't be real, for fucks sake.
By creating this muddy shit you're now just drawing everyone's attention so that they can tell what a bs play this is. I'm aware what a crap labeling people symps at this point is but this kind of shit again can't be town play. But god knows I wouldn't bother typing this if I didn't think he's town.

So what do you suggest we do about this?

I said I think they're town, what am I supposed to do with townies that play shit?

But what I am really interested in is this underlined remark by Ultama. His attention is getting distracted due to AFs shenanigans. That reads like symp play to me. A whole lot of posts, some theories, but not a lot of sense to back it all up, but noisy so as to attract attention.

Ultama, on 28 December 2016 - 09:17 PM, said:

Back. And not even drunk :|

I don't get how Tulas' apparent giving it at L-million makes him look townie to people. I donn't like this kind of sad panda play and it makes me want to vote on him twice. Buuut there's this pile of nonsense Aparal treated us with and I just cannot walk past it:

Aparal Forge, on 28 December 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 28 December 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Nice of you to join us, AF. So can you break down the sequence of events you think happened here a bit more? Are you saying that you think Serc and TS are partnered and Serc reacted to Pallid's vote with an immediate OMGUS by proxy? I'm not quite seeing where the Alkend-as-possible-partner comes from.

Well, i DID, but if it helps...

Pallid signals TS with a joke. Either Serc or Alkend's vote looks like a reaction to TS getting notice. Pallid removes and tries to make it look like his TS vote wasnt anything special.

TS realizes he's drawn too much heat too early, and moves to sacrifice himself for team scum, but lets hi self be talmed off the ledge.

It's D1 banter and Aparal is making it look as convoluted as the plot in Westworld except not that interesting.

remove vote
vote Aparal Forge

So I am currently reading AF as a symp