[Snacky]

I just finished the book and it's been a while since i last read any of the malazan books so I feel like i need a reminder.

Did we ever find out Shadowthrones and Cotillions end game? I remember it being to get their revenge on Laseen and toppling the empire, but it seems like they gave up on that eventually. Also, did they ever get access to Kurald Emurahn?

I remember the thought of their warren only being a weak shadow of the true shadow warren being one of the more interesting mysteries when i originally read the books. Did they ever gain control of the throne?

I really liked both ST and Cotillion so I'm looking forward to finding out more about their past, but i'm also worried that we never really got a grip on their present/future in the books, but maybe that's just me who has forgotten too much.

[worry]

They want to legalize marijuana.

[Aptorian]

The revenge plot against the empire is mainly a GOTM thing.

The gist of the two's plans are basically that they want power and knowledge and they always want more. They have perceived that there is a lack of progressive power structure and seem to be actively working towards either setting things right or, more likely, setting things right for them.

They seem awfully interested in Elemental Power, which might be their next goal.

worry, on 23 August 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

They want to legalize marijuana.

Already done, it's called Rust Leaf I think.

EDIT: Or is that tobacco? I am sure there was some weed equivelant?

This post has been edited by Apt: 23 August 2016 - 08:05 PM

[Snacky]

Apt, on 23 August 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

The revenge plot against the empire is mainly a GOTM thing.

The gist of the two's plans are basically that they want power and knowledge and they always want more. They have perceived that there is a lack of progressive power structure and seem to be actively working towards either setting things right or, more likely, setting things right for them.

They seem awfully interested in Elemental Power, which might be their next goal.

worry, on 23 August 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

They want to legalize marijuana.

Already done, it's called Rust Leaf I think.

EDIT: Or is that tobacco? I am sure there was some weed equivelant?

Thanks. Yeah that sounds about right for them i guess, i mean throughout this entire book Wu (Kellanved) never really tells Dorin of his plans or his goals, and whatever they accomplish he always seems to aim higher.

Just wasn't too sure if they had ever pointed out a more specific goal in the books, i'm glad they haven't the mystery is what makes it compelling.

[bhokaralasenator]

Snacky, on 23 August 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

I just finished the book and it's been a while since i last read any of the malazan books so I feel like i need a reminder.

Did we ever find out Shadowthrones and Cotillions end game? I remember it being to get their revenge on Laseen and toppling the empire, but it seems like they gave up on that eventually. Also, did they ever get access to Kurald Emurahn?

I remember the thought of their warren only being a weak shadow of the true shadow warren being one of the more interesting mysteries when i originally read the books. Did they ever gain control of the throne?

I really liked both ST and Cotillion so I'm looking forward to finding out more about their past, but i'm also worried that we never really got a grip on their present/future in the books, but maybe that's just me who has forgotten too much.

In the book of the fallen I saw their goal as this:
SPOILERS

Reunite the pieces of the Crippled God then kill him to send him home to: 1) prevent the Jade Giants from destroying Wu, 2) prevent the other gods from feeding off of him, thus destabilizing the pantheon, and 3) hes been treated sooo unfair by everyone and they're correcting an injustice. Other goals accomplished by this included:
- restoring some of the Azath so that they could access Starvald Demelain and let the dragons into Wu to deal with Korabas
- Guiding the Bonehunters to eliminate the Tiste Edur empire, which was a threat to their control of Kurald Emurhlan, the First Throne, and the Throne of Shadow
- Preventing the rise of the crazy Forkrul Assail faction via the Bonehunters and Dujek's Host, who everyone agreed was bad news.
- Possibly helping Rake along in his plan to destroy Dragnipur and bring back Mother Dark, though I don't really know what they gain by this (but they did put Daseem on that path). The elimination of Rake may have served their purposes, mainly because it removed him as a protector of KE and freed Draconus to deal with Kilmandaros after she released Korabas... not to mention the return of Hood and his involvement in the Battle of the Spire.

Basically, they were trying to save the world from the threat that the CG's presence created, and accomplished a lot of other goals along the way with style. Just my thoughts on the whole thing.

[Felisin Fatter]

My impression is that young (?) Wu/Kellanved mainly wants to conquer. Kinda like Dorin, he wants to prove he is the most bad-ass of them all, gain a reputation. The first option he pursues is conquering a city, preferably one that's supposed to be impossible to conquer. He does so by being unpredictable and (ab)using any obscure knowledge he can get his grubby hands on. He also seems to lack a survival instinct Hence, the warren traveling and other experiments. This leads at some point to the conclusion that he could also conquer a warren. Awesome! So they do that too (takes them a few decades of research and planning). Then I imagine something like this (not literally and I know the timeline doesn't fit, but to give an idea):


Other Gods: Welcome, we guess.
Kel+Dan: Yeah... so... how do you guys get your powers?
OG: Eh, worshipers mainly?
Kel+Dan: Ok. (Proceed to destroy Rashan cult, indoctrinate Talons, spraypaint their names everywhere, etc.)

OG: Hey, new guys, want to attend the chaining tonight?
K+D: The what? Well, sure...
(That night)
K+D: (look at crazy ritual) Wtf, is this normal??
Kel: Oh, so this is your other power source you forgot to mention before.
OG: (Fuck up or something and curse Dassem forever and sacrifice his daughter)
K+D: Wtf! Those were our loyal friends!
OG: Don't make a scene, they were just mortals, we needed some blood, big deal.
K+D: (dripping sarcasm) Right.... and what about that poor wreck chained and drained here? Just a mortal too?
OG: Er, no, ehm... but he's alien! And poisonous and... unpleasant. Like, you know, evil.
K+D: (still sarcasm) Gee... wonder why... (saunter away, mumbling) Come, Dancer, we need to plan a few things.