[Entropic_existence]

Ok, I searched on the forums looking for any thread dealing with this that I could find and found nothing....and maybe it is just obvious but are Dassem Ultor and Dassembrae connected? Dassembrae is the Lord of Tragedy and at one point in Deadhouse Gates I believe it is Duiker who refers to Dassembrae's worship as the "Cult of Dassem." So....did Dassem Ascend and become Dassembrae?

[Folken]

Yes...Yes he is. It just makes sense I guess.

[Morgoth]

Yes, they are both the same guy.. WE've had several discussions about this, bt I spose those threads dissapered with our beloved old forum.. There is one quote, I can't honestly remember where its from but someone says Dassem, and then corrects it to Dassembrae. There are several other pointers at well, but it's early and I can't remember any

[cowl]

thinnk it was K'rul who mentions it while talking to lady Envy in callows

[Hume]

It gets cleared up a little in Night of Knives

And yes they are the same person.

[Iron Bars]

Its somewhere in DHG I think, it has to do with his daughter being taken by Hood.

[Entropic_existence]

Yea I had just sort of assumed, guess I was making sure I wasn't just a complete idiot. Partially through my reread of Memories of Ice now so catching alot of the stuff I didn't notice as being important on the first read through.

[Folken]

Morgoth said:

Yes, they are both the same guy.. WE've had several discussions about this, bt I spose those threads dissapered with our beloved old forum.. There is one quote, I can't honestly remember where its from but someone says Dassem, and then corrects it to Dassembrae. There are several other pointers at well, but it's early and I can't remember any

That conversation between K'Rul and Envy...or is it something else that ur refering to. Even then, theres a mention there of Daseem being him.

[Jorram]

The main two sources are exactly the K'rul/Envy conversation in MoI and Fiddler's thoughts in either DG or HoC (dont remember) about the cult to Dassem. Then there's also the fact that the names sound alike.

What is weird is that everybody acknowledges the existence of Dessembrae as an Ascendant (and he is listed in the reference, so presumably not dead), however there hasn't been any indication that people connect this to Dassem having ascended and still out there. So maybe Dessembrae is just the name Dassem assumed and when he died, it remained (and is listed in the reference because of course he's not dead ).

[Abyss]

Just because he's worshipped by a cult and named as a god doesn't actually mean he is.

NoK'isms and the question of whether he's Traveller aside, we only know for sure that he was sworn to Hood and gained power from that deal, and that the deal was breached. So he could just be this very skilled and powerful guy, wandering around, being worshipped in his absence. Power might attach to him, a la Coltaine on the Chain, but when all's said and done, he need not be a god any more than Scabby/Father Shadow was - ie, an ascendant who was worshiped in spite of being mostly dead/absent.


- Abyss, mostly tired/hungry.

[Folken]

Hence that little spat between Daseem and Hood. He had grown to rival his power, and Hood feared he would be usurped by him or something like that.

[Morgoth]

Dassembrae is listed as an ascendant, so we should assume him to be just that .. I think Dassen ascended after he broke with hood.. Sometime after that episode in NoK which i'm not allowed to talk about here..

[Set'alahd Crool]

In GotM when Kruppe is looking for his grandmother's name he reads that Dassembrae was at the chaining. Indeed, we are told that it was then that he broke from Hood's service.
Now, if the same thing happened to Hood at two different chainings AND with two different servants I'd say the lord of death ain't all he should be.

[Omras Ghum]

that's exactly what i was also wondering about... why would a thousand-years-old ascendant attach himself to a bunch of more or less "normals" (kellanved and his lot) and help create the Malazan empire???

Could be a) dassem was an incarnation of Dessembrae
or Dassem Ultor was a mortal who became Dessembrae much like Kellanved+Dancer took over the Shadowwarren...

[Iron Bars]

Wraith said:

but when Krupe is reading that document he refers to it as being ancient, but dassem ultor only died about a decade ago.
so unless dassem ultor was at the chaining before his death as his position as knight of death and used the name desembrae at the time, or he was already an ascendent when he served the emporer I fail to see how dassem could be dassembrae.
unless krupe considers a 10 year old document as ancient.

Also what is "knight of knives"?

Night of Knives is a novel writen by Ian Cameron Esslemont who is the second man behind the Malazen empire world. He and SE thought is all up.

Dassem was defenitly at the last chaining, thats when he broke his chains to Hood because Hood did something with his daughter. This is what made him Desembrea, or at least thats what I think. But there was a Lord of Tragedy before that. This could be Dassem or someone else.

[Folken]

The book is ancient but it has been updated with each chaining.

[Omras Ghum]

grizzleshizzle said:

So the CG has been chained multiple times? I never ever realised that. Jees.

same with me - really???

Seems I'm even more stupid than i figured...