[Felisin Fatter]

Just posting this to see if everyone thinks I'm insane. So. I have this niggling feeling that the locations we see in FoD are distant in time, but not in place. They were later 'sundered' somehow (I imagine like what happened to the Imperial warren) so they could wander. But as of FoD, they are normal part of the world we know. That is my assumption to have this discussion make sense at all.

Thinking about that, I am now looking at the map in MoI, Genabackis. And there is a possible fit! Compare the map in FoD of the "Thel Akai, Jaghut, Tiste realms" (though where are the Tiste on that one??) to the top left part of the map of Genabackis in MoI. (And imagine 300k disastrous years pass in between.)

• There is a sea west, Thel Akai / Toblai north, Blackdog + Rhivi / Dog runners south.
• There is the Bole brothers - Varandas link. Mott and Blackdog forest are positioned pretty much along the Jaghut 'Exodus road'.
• Around where the Jheck were, there is a city called Greydog.
• There is the odd coincidence of 'Jhelarkan' being a place on the FoD map, and a prince in MoI.
• Tiste Edur keep popping up in and around Genabackis.
• Fanderay still wanders the land where her current body was born, being trapped in it.
• In the prologue, which takes place around the same time FoD does or not long after, we see Kilava traveling to Morn. Which is on Genabackis. Across 'L'Amath'. The MoI book calls it the 'Plain of Lamathath'. This location also fits with 'dog runners in the south'.

That implies that roughly from the Rhivi Plain to the Dwelling Plain (MoI map again) was in FoD times the Imass' First Empire. And indeed, there is a Bhederin plateau there, and it is surrounded by Moranth, Rhivi and Barghast. All people directly descended from the surviving Imass. Raest's tomb near Darujhistan is right in the middle of that area. Fitting with him having been a Tyrant in that particular First Empire. And his imprisonment being part of the war that had so diminished Pran Choles people in the MoI prologue.


There are also problems with this idea... mostly hinging on the timeline wich is still frustratingly vague. Kilava sees the Rent at Morn and considers where it leads: Tellann? (no), Starvald Demelain? (unlikely), so must be Omtose Phellack, right? (no)
If Omtose Phellack is a warren, and also if there are no more Jaghut on the continent, then we must be significantly past the events of FoD, right? Yet it is before the Ritual of Tellann. Is that possible? I think so. Though it is pretty disturbing that the Imass would first destroy all of the Jaghut on the continent + their Ice Age (granted, aided by the other Jaghut) and only after that, make themselves undead to continue the war. Something seems off there... (Olar Ethil perhaps...)

It also implies that the K'Chain civilization and wars and their destruction happened even before the Tiste and Jaghut civilizations. Does that clash with the Tiste later seen as invaders fighting the K'Chain? Is there time travel involved??
I don't think it is impossible, as that later mess happened on the Letheras continent, right? And I think I remember reading it was the Forkrul who destroyed the Matron and her people around Morn? I must admit the whole K'Chain history/timeline has always baffled me.

So the Genabackan timeline would go like this (maybe...):

• >310k years ago, the K'Chain ruled (much of) Genabackis.
• There was infighting with the Nahruk, after wich the Forkrul mopped up what was left. Taking a heavy blow in the process.
• Imass moved into the area, Jaghut Tyrant(s) shaped them into an Empire.
• Desperate Forkrul start a war with the Tiste, pretty much destroying eachother. The Tiste win, at a staggering cost.
• The Jaghut declare war on Death and mostly leave the continent.
• The Tiste implode into civil war and eventually a kind of nuclear winter. They (K'rul? Dragons?) remove the mess to their new Holds and use them to leave for another continent (Letheras) or stay in them (Liosan).
• About 298,650 years ago: Imass (+ Jaghut) war on the left-over Jaghut until none are left, Imass are nearly destroyed too. Then they join the Ritual of Tellan and fight on, on different continents.
• Slowly, on Genabackis the land heals and the few remaining Imass, Tiste (maybe?), Thel Akai and whatever else got left behind (Boles?) turn into (mostly) human tribes and eventually cities again. Maybe also including the people that came in the 'Ship of the High King'?

This post has been edited by Felisin Fatter: 16 February 2016 - 10:36 AM

[worry]

You know, with these huge timelines it's easy to forget how much can happen in a single year/month/week/day. How long do all the events of MOI take? A few months. Huge events don't have to take years, let alone millennia.

Anyway, you ever try to google a Malazan map some time and accidentally hit Maps instead of Images, expecting that to work?

[Felisin Fatter]

True, there might well be centuries or even millenia between FoD and the prologue of MoI, and pretty much anything could easily fit in there. I hope the rest of the Kharkanas trilogy gives us a little more about the timelines though... Would be nice.

[Gorefest]

So are you suggesting that in DoD / tCG, the Shake and the Andii travel back in time? Because my impression was that the Wall of Light near Kharkanas is the river in FoD.

My idea was that the physical areas in FoD either later become the various racial Holds, or the various races name their Holds after their places of origin or places that held a big significance to them. I think the actions of Errestas in FoD will lead to the creation of the Holds and make him Master of the Tiles.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 16 February 2016 - 11:47 AM

[Felisin Fatter]

I don't think they travel in time. I think the Tiste realm got split up and 'stripped away', possibly by K'rul, or Errastas, who knows. The area around Kharkanas, up to the river becomes Kurald Galain. We already see the Darkness and cold spreading in FoD. I guess the main gate into and out of it later gets locked up in Dragnipur, but by that time it is already abandoned. The Liosan get an area on the other side of the river, hence there is a border. Typically, they build a huge wall. The Edur get a piece too, but it gets shattered. Most of the Tiste get transported away with their Kuralds, but find out they are not such great places to live now and the civil war still keeps going, so they all flee. Except the Liosan.

Ack, read the MT prologue and Scabby mentions there are still some K'Chain, far away at Morn, but they are few and are being destroyed by the Nahruk. This does support my theory, in the sense that the situation on Genabackis is clearly familiar for Scabby and Silchas, while they are not aware Anomander is near them on their current continent.

Right... that would make the timeline:

• >310k years ago, the K'Chain ruled (much of) Genabackis.
• Desperate Forkrul start a war with the Tiste, pretty much destroying eachother. The Tiste win, at a staggering cost.
• The Jaghut declare war on Death and mostly leave the continent.
• The Tiste implode into civil war and eventually a kind of nuclear winter. They (K'rul? Errastas? Dragons?) remove the mess to their new Holds and use them to leave for another continent (Letheras) or stay in them (Liosan).
• There was K'Chain infighting with the Nahruk, after wich the Forkrul mopped up what was left. Taking a heavy blow in the process.
• Imass moved into the area, Jaghut Tyrant(s) shaped them into an Empire.
• About 298,650 years ago: Imass (+ Jaghut) war on the left-over Jaghut until none are left, Imass are nearly destroyed too. Then they join the Ritual of Tellan and fight on, on different continents.
• Slowly, on Genabackis the land heals and the few remaining Imass, Tiste (maybe?), Thel Akai and whatever else got left behind (Boles?) turn into (mostly) human tribes and eventually cities again. Maybe also including the people that came in the 'Ship of the High King'?