[Telas]

I bet they're laughing their asses off in Spoiler Heaven.

[Denul]

Telas just vote for me and we'll go to night.

[Telas]

What's the current vote count?

[Denul]

I'm basically going to love the look on Eloth's face.

[Telas]

Denul, on 25 February 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

Telas just vote for me and we'll go to night.

If you want to go to night vote for yourself.

[Denul]

2 votes on me
1 on night

[Telas]

Denul, on 25 February 2016 - 06:22 PM, said:

Telas just vote for me and we'll go to night.

If I vote for you it's a lynch. You'll be dead. And then we'll go to night. Unless you are claiming lynch-proof.

[Denul]

No I'm not lynch proof.

[Eloth]

Wait, you noticed Telas defended Gait, but not me?

Telas basically didn't post during the initial Gait train (deliberately according to him, and to his credit if so).

Meanwhile I posted things like this:

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

You also seem to have your sights pretty set on the low posters today. Which is another standard M&P thing, but here is making me a bit wary. With little info from the low posters, how would you know they aren't your faction? It seems atbitrary, and since there's no way to really judge the faction of the low posters it also commits nothing on the part of the person voting them. It seems like another easy low information vote. Not sure I like that.

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Denul, on 09 February 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

I think I have a good grasp of the higher content people. I wouldn't want to get later into endgame with a player who has spouted RL nonsense throughout the game and has ridden our coattails and tolerance throughout.

In M&P I would be more inclined to agree. However, the information we'll have later is dependant on what happens now. There won't magically be more information just because it's the endgame. Sure I don't have much read on OE or Gait... or a ton of other people really -- because we've had easy hop on low-information lynches that haven't committed people much either way. If we keeping coasting through the game with easy lynches, I don't see how that improves. At some point, someone has to make something happen, and try to do something that isn't just arbitrary. If you've got a good grasp on the higher content people, why aren't you pushing someone you think isn't on your team?

Then the next day:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

[snip]
So we just vote off randomly until we're down to a few players left? Sounds both fun and productive.

Though your thought about Olar is possibly interesting. I think it's more likely just down to peple giving Olar more leeway due to him being replaced and seeing nothing to choose between him and Gait.

Anomandaris, on 10 February 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Oh and Olar as well for that matter. I don't particularly care at this point if they're a late entrant into the game. Two posts.

More annoyingly is that one of them is "Yeah guys, I'll post in a little bit", before disppearing again. That always grates on me.

Denul, on 10 February 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I agree with this. Rather than shoot down the guy who has put an offer on the table, put one of your own. All talk and no action with some people. They want to disagree for the sake of it.

All talk and no action, he complains, before promptly putting down yet another non-commital zero information vote? Sod off. Let's take a look at your wonderful contribution so far shall we?
[snip]

You may notice that I also picked up on Ano deflecting on OE a bit (Denes also did this) and pushed that way too.

And then I de-railed things away from Gait. Telas hasn't really posted much here again, so not exactly seeing where you're finding his defence of Gait.

Then there's also me explicitly telling you I'm happy about the ways things went:

Eloth, on 11 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Denul, on 11 February 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Happy Eloth? Happy with Gait, Grasp, Olar's play?

We've got people voting for apparently faction based reasons, instead of just hopping on whatever. So yeah, tbh I'm fairly happy in general. For me, pulling teeth is trying to play mafia in a thread where too many people seem happy to timidly play roulette as quietly as they possibly can.

And then there's AF:

Aparal Forge, on 10 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Vote Ultama

Because I don't think he's on my team.

I get the impression you do think that Gait is on your team.

Who certainly managed to pick up on it. You didn't give this any consideration?

Or this one:

Aparal Forge, on 11 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

What makes it worse is that something is bugging me about Eloth, so I'm reluctant just to follow him. He claims that the has a good read on Ultama, but just don't know how. It makes me think he's actually trying to make sure we don't go after Gait. I have a feeling he's just putting up a smoke screen, widening the focus of the thread to other low and non-committal posters to lessen to focus on Gait and simultaneously creating plausible deniability of protecting Gait by trying to protect the whole group of non-entities.

I don't really see where you're getting Telas defending Gait from. It strikes me as an odd thing to call out. Are you trying to buddy up to him? Or what?

Also, of course I'm going to push for the lynch. I've got a 2/3 chance of hitting the enemy, and there's not all that long left. I've made it very clear that I don't like the idea of going to night.

[Denul]

2 vs 2 at night is worse than 3 versus 2. Takeda need a lynch of a Uesugi. Eloth's pushing the lynch hard at me. Go figure.

I don't know why but we'll find out after the game I suppose.

[Eloth]

Denul, on 25 February 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

I'm basically going to love the look on Eloth's face.

It's quite possible that I'm wrong (it's also funny from a meta perspective, if you're who I suspect you are). But as I've said, I'm not going to overlook the obvious choice in favour of more obscure reasoning. I'd be more annoyed if we didn't lynch you and I was right, than I we did lynch you and I was wrong (though that'd suck too).

[Denul]

Eloth, on 25 February 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Denul, on 25 February 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

I'm basically going to love the look on Eloth's face.

It's quite possible that I'm wrong (it's also funny from a meta perspective, if you're who I suspect you are). But as I've said, I'm not going to overlook the obvious choice in favour of more obscure reasoning. I'd be more annoyed if we didn't lynch you and I was right, than I we did lynch you and I was wrong (though that'd suck too).

It has been known to happen.

[Telas]

Eloth, on 25 February 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Wait, you noticed Telas defended Gait, but not me?

Telas basically didn't post during the initial Gait train (deliberately according to him, and to his credit if so).

Meanwhile I posted things like this:

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

You also seem to have your sights pretty set on the low posters today. Which is another standard M&P thing, but here is making me a bit wary. With little info from the low posters, how would you know they aren't your faction? It seems atbitrary, and since there's no way to really judge the faction of the low posters it also commits nothing on the part of the person voting them. It seems like another easy low information vote. Not sure I like that.

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Denul, on 09 February 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

I think I have a good grasp of the higher content people. I wouldn't want to get later into endgame with a player who has spouted RL nonsense throughout the game and has ridden our coattails and tolerance throughout.

In M&P I would be more inclined to agree. However, the information we'll have later is dependant on what happens now. There won't magically be more information just because it's the endgame. Sure I don't have much read on OE or Gait... or a ton of other people really -- because we've had easy hop on low-information lynches that haven't committed people much either way. If we keeping coasting through the game with easy lynches, I don't see how that improves. At some point, someone has to make something happen, and try to do something that isn't just arbitrary. If you've got a good grasp on the higher content people, why aren't you pushing someone you think isn't on your team?

Then the next day:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

[snip]
So we just vote off randomly until we're down to a few players left? Sounds both fun and productive.

Though your thought about Olar is possibly interesting. I think it's more likely just down to peple giving Olar more leeway due to him being replaced and seeing nothing to choose between him and Gait.

Anomandaris, on 10 February 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Oh and Olar as well for that matter. I don't particularly care at this point if they're a late entrant into the game. Two posts.

More annoyingly is that one of them is "Yeah guys, I'll post in a little bit", before disppearing again. That always grates on me.

Denul, on 10 February 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I agree with this. Rather than shoot down the guy who has put an offer on the table, put one of your own. All talk and no action with some people. They want to disagree for the sake of it.

All talk and no action, he complains, before promptly putting down yet another non-commital zero information vote? Sod off. Let's take a look at your wonderful contribution so far shall we?
[snip]

You may notice that I also picked up on Ano deflecting on OE a bit (Denes also did this) and pushed that way too.

And then I de-railed things away from Gait. Telas hasn't really posted much here again, so not exactly seeing where you're finding his defence of Gait.

Then there's also me explicitly telling you I'm happy about the ways things went:

Eloth, on 11 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Denul, on 11 February 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Happy Eloth? Happy with Gait, Grasp, Olar's play?

We've got people voting for apparently faction based reasons, instead of just hopping on whatever. So yeah, tbh I'm fairly happy in general. For me, pulling teeth is trying to play mafia in a thread where too many people seem happy to timidly play roulette as quietly as they possibly can.

And then there's AF:

Aparal Forge, on 10 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Vote Ultama

Because I don't think he's on my team.

I get the impression you do think that Gait is on your team.

Who certainly managed to pick up on it. You didn't give this any consideration?

Or this one:

Aparal Forge, on 11 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

What makes it worse is that something is bugging me about Eloth, so I'm reluctant just to follow him. He claims that the has a good read on Ultama, but just don't know how. It makes me think he's actually trying to make sure we don't go after Gait. I have a feeling he's just putting up a smoke screen, widening the focus of the thread to other low and non-committal posters to lessen to focus on Gait and simultaneously creating plausible deniability of protecting Gait by trying to protect the whole group of non-entities.

I don't really see where you're getting Telas defending Gait from. It strikes me as an odd thing to call out. Are you trying to buddy up to him? Or what?

Also, of course I'm going to push for the lynch. I've got a 2/3 chance of hitting the enemy, and there's not all that long left. I've made it very clear that I don't like the idea of going to night.

I don't know, I waited until the endgame and said I wouldn't vote for him, no matter what. I noticed your deflection, and I picked up on Ano's as well, though he jumped on at the end, I'm assuming to not be tied to the Uesugi so easily.

[Denul]

Meta wise you know you should trust me instead of whatever it is you've decided to target me with.

I mean, you've not made a good case for me not being in your team.

Look at the Ultima lynch. You convinced me to vote him and was wrong.

[Eloth]

At the end of the day, I simply don't think there's enough evidence to back up your claim of knowing me. Things like not voting me, or following me, don't stand out from the background noise.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that if you end up being on my team I'm going to blame you for not paying enough attention to my stance towards Gait and continuing to push him .

[Denul]

Telas, on 25 February 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

Eloth, on 25 February 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

Wait, you noticed Telas defended Gait, but not me?

Telas basically didn't post during the initial Gait train (deliberately according to him, and to his credit if so).

Meanwhile I posted things like this:

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

You also seem to have your sights pretty set on the low posters today. Which is another standard M&P thing, but here is making me a bit wary. With little info from the low posters, how would you know they aren't your faction? It seems atbitrary, and since there's no way to really judge the faction of the low posters it also commits nothing on the part of the person voting them. It seems like another easy low information vote. Not sure I like that.

Eloth, on 09 February 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Denul, on 09 February 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

I think I have a good grasp of the higher content people. I wouldn't want to get later into endgame with a player who has spouted RL nonsense throughout the game and has ridden our coattails and tolerance throughout.

In M&P I would be more inclined to agree. However, the information we'll have later is dependant on what happens now. There won't magically be more information just because it's the endgame. Sure I don't have much read on OE or Gait... or a ton of other people really -- because we've had easy hop on low-information lynches that haven't committed people much either way. If we keeping coasting through the game with easy lynches, I don't see how that improves. At some point, someone has to make something happen, and try to do something that isn't just arbitrary. If you've got a good grasp on the higher content people, why aren't you pushing someone you think isn't on your team?

Then the next day:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

[snip]
So we just vote off randomly until we're down to a few players left? Sounds both fun and productive.

Though your thought about Olar is possibly interesting. I think it's more likely just down to peple giving Olar more leeway due to him being replaced and seeing nothing to choose between him and Gait.

Anomandaris, on 10 February 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Oh and Olar as well for that matter. I don't particularly care at this point if they're a late entrant into the game. Two posts.

More annoyingly is that one of them is "Yeah guys, I'll post in a little bit", before disppearing again. That always grates on me.

Denul, on 10 February 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I agree with this. Rather than shoot down the guy who has put an offer on the table, put one of your own. All talk and no action with some people. They want to disagree for the sake of it.

All talk and no action, he complains, before promptly putting down yet another non-commital zero information vote? Sod off. Let's take a look at your wonderful contribution so far shall we?
[snip]

You may notice that I also picked up on Ano deflecting on OE a bit (Denes also did this) and pushed that way too.

And then I de-railed things away from Gait. Telas hasn't really posted much here again, so not exactly seeing where you're finding his defence of Gait.

Then there's also me explicitly telling you I'm happy about the ways things went:

Eloth, on 11 February 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Denul, on 11 February 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

Happy Eloth? Happy with Gait, Grasp, Olar's play?

We've got people voting for apparently faction based reasons, instead of just hopping on whatever. So yeah, tbh I'm fairly happy in general. For me, pulling teeth is trying to play mafia in a thread where too many people seem happy to timidly play roulette as quietly as they possibly can.

And then there's AF:

Aparal Forge, on 10 February 2016 - 02:54 PM, said:

Eloth, on 10 February 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Vote Ultama

Because I don't think he's on my team.

I get the impression you do think that Gait is on your team.

Who certainly managed to pick up on it. You didn't give this any consideration?

Or this one:

Aparal Forge, on 11 February 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

What makes it worse is that something is bugging me about Eloth, so I'm reluctant just to follow him. He claims that the has a good read on Ultama, but just don't know how. It makes me think he's actually trying to make sure we don't go after Gait. I have a feeling he's just putting up a smoke screen, widening the focus of the thread to other low and non-committal posters to lessen to focus on Gait and simultaneously creating plausible deniability of protecting Gait by trying to protect the whole group of non-entities.

I don't really see where you're getting Telas defending Gait from. It strikes me as an odd thing to call out. Are you trying to buddy up to him? Or what?

Also, of course I'm going to push for the lynch. I've got a 2/3 chance of hitting the enemy, and there's not all that long left. I've made it very clear that I don't like the idea of going to night.

I don't know, I waited until the endgame and said I wouldn't vote for him, no matter what. I noticed your deflection, and I picked up on Ano's as well, though he jumped on at the end, I'm assuming to not be tied to the Uesugi so easily.

My play all game. Not to be tied to a faction.

[Denul]

Eloth, on 25 February 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

At the end of the day, I simply don't think there's enough evidence to back up your claim of knowing me. Things like not voting me, or following me, don't stand out from the background noise.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that if you end up being on my team I'm going to blame you for not paying enough attention to my stance towards Gait and continuing to push him .

Oh yeah? Let's go back then shall we...

[Denul]

page 1 and 2 has you arguing with Fanderay. Quite a discussion.

I use this by Kadagar to vote Fanderay

Denul, on 03 February 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:

Merrid, on 03 February 2016 - 01:31 PM, said:

Aparal Forge, on 03 February 2016 - 12:49 PM, said:

Merrid, on 03 February 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Both you and Ano use this reasoning. It's bullshit to brand jumpiness as scumminess.
It's not about identifying scum. It is identifying juicy roles and see whether or not people are willing to defend those juicy roles.

What I was actually trying to convey is that I don't trust the arguments based on defensiveness and sympiness to be based solely on defensiveness and sympiness as this is a faction game and ulterior motives based on faction alignment suspicions might also be in play. For one, you must be damn certain that, when you think you've identified a player with an important role or ability that the player does not belong to your faction. So jumping on "defensiveness" alone will not do, you need to have information about the alignment of your target, except, of course, if you're unaligned yourself or an important figure in your own faction so you feel fairly save to lynch other suspected important roles.

And how do you identify such a player if you are afraid of exposing your own?

This generally results in a no-lynch attitude where no-one is making waves.
That's been the bane of faction games on this board throughout the last 60 games or so, especially if there is a leadership pyramid and/or roughly equally strong factions in a game. Players simply won't move without their leader's example to go by - after which everyone and their mother on that faction generally follows and the lines in the sand become almost entirely cleared up.

Usually, up until that point the game stagnates into night phase shenanigans with the thread merely existing to avoid mod-kills and reading Path-Shaper's announcements.

After a full read up, I tend to agree with you here Merrid. At first, I saw the Ano train as the scapegoat for a day one faction game. Sucks to be whoever it is but that's how these games go. However, Ano has defended himself pretty well.

This case by Kadagar;

Kadagar Fant, on 03 February 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

Fanderay, on 03 February 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

Eloth, on 03 February 2016 - 03:51 AM, said:

Yeah, activity is always some use.

I'm going to:

Vote Anomandaris

For posting just to say "I'm not getting involved with this discussion"...why so wary?

I actually like this vote. Ano posted something completely irrelevant and didn't answer me when I insulted him. I dislike that because it seems like he is trying to stay under the radar.

Vote Anomandaris

Also, it makes mathematical sense for me to lynch anyone except myself, so if a train starts on someone else I'll switch. I'm not choosy at all.

So, this line really jumped out at me. It definitely implies that Fanderay isn't worried who gets lynched as long as it isn't him, which bodes ill for a team game.

Fanderay, on 03 February 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hanas, on 03 February 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

Fanderay, on 03 February 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 03 February 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

Fanderay, on 03 February 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Whoa, somebody just panicked.
Are you a faction leader or something?

Panicked? Who? Let's get them!

Is that question for real? I'm the guy who doesn't want to be lynched day 1, same as everyone else, obvs.

However, I don't think 4 consecutive posts in less than 8 minutes is normal behavior.

There's also his weird, pseudo-logical justification for voting for you. Might be a joke, but you know.
And then he disappears.
I'm pretty on the fence for actually lynching Anomandaris, but it might be interesting to see what happens if more pressure is applied.

I don't think we have anything better to go on tbh, it is day 1 and he IS acting really weird.

And then here he seems to be setting up the Andomandaris lynch as the only possibility, which is super iffy when we still have 10 hours of day one, and fewer than half the votes we'd need.

I don't like it. And there's no better reason for voting on day one.

Vote Fanderay.

I like this case, it has merit.

Vote Fanderay

That wasn't the real reason and the case was shit.

Let's go on

[Eloth]

Telas, on 25 February 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

I don't know, I waited until the endgame and said I wouldn't vote for him, no matter what. I noticed your deflection, and I picked up on Ano's as well, though he jumped on at the end, I'm assuming to not be tied to the Uesugi so easily.

Sure, and I agree with you about the endgame (and Ano for that matter, though given his AF vote the next day he tied himself pretty quickly anyway). But Denul was talking about picking up on you defending him which just made me think "when?", because I assumed he wasn't referring to the endgame (since the point is him continuing to push after that defence).

[Eloth]

Denul, on 25 February 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

page 1 and 2 has you arguing with Fanderay. Quite a discussion.

I use this by Kadagar to vote Fanderay
[snip]

That wasn't the real reason and the case was shit.

Let's go on

Not seeing how this at suggests you knew me? Elsewhere you point out that you followed me on votes, but now you not following me on a vote is also evidence?