[Shadow]

Ultama, on 08 February 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Merrid, on 08 February 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

Urgh, I have been in meetings for most of the day. Why does everyone feel a need to say the exact same thing as the person before them, but in different words, and pretend they invented the wheel?

So that they can all justify there continued employment and feel that they are actively contributing to the conversation and are a problem solver. When in actuality they are a time sink that constantly interferes in shit actually getting fixed. But I may be biased as I hate meetings and am rarely the one to schedule them.

for a second i thought we were discussing mafia. The metaphor sure is apt.

[Aparal Forge]

So no one wants to talk about D2? Too afraid to unwillingly reveal information?

Looks like you were right Merrid, things do slow down to a stalemate in the presence of off-thread mechanics.

[Eloth]

Aparal Forge, on 08 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

So no one wants to talk about D2? Too afraid to unwillingly reveal information?

Looks like you were right Merrid, things do slow down to a stalemate in the presence of off-thread mechanics.

Also Hanas' reveal drew a lynch that was an easy vote for most people, and it's not obvious where to go from there.

It's also hard to see what mechanically motivates a lynch here. Obviously people want to lynch outside their own faction; but where does that leave anyone trying to build a case? It's hard to build a case saying "This guy is totally Uesugi so the Takeda should vote him, also he's totally Takeda so the Uesugi should vote him". It's a difficulty of faction games, and why it's so common for them to have established wildcards closer to standard mafia scum (such as a cult faction, a FM, etc) that everyone can agree should be targeted as though it was a town vs scum game where the factions act as a sort of town group.

[Denul]

I'm a Daddy!!!

Won't be on much but to celebrate I'd like you all to follow me in lynching Olar Ethil. Non entity for the entirety of the game and I'm not sure but I don't think he's even voted.

vote Olar Ethil

[Ultama]

Eloth, on 08 February 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

Aparal Forge, on 08 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

So no one wants to talk about D2? Too afraid to unwillingly reveal information?

Looks like you were right Merrid, things do slow down to a stalemate in the presence of off-thread mechanics.

Also Hanas' reveal drew a lynch that was an easy vote for most people, and it's not obvious where to go from there.

It's also hard to see what mechanically motivates a lynch here. Obviously people want to lynch outside their own faction; but where does that leave anyone trying to build a case? It's hard to build a case saying "This guy is totally Uesugi so the Takeda should vote him, also he's totally Takeda so the Uesugi should vote him". It's a difficulty of faction games, and why it's so common for them to have established wildcards closer to standard mafia scum (such as a cult faction, a FM, etc) that everyone can agree should be targeted as though it was a town vs scum game where the factions act as a sort of town group.

Also the difference in a two faction game then in a three faction game. In three factions people can hide in two factions and try to culture hunt a weakened third faction. In a two faction game as soon as you start to culture hunt the other faction you are painting a picture on your back of who you are. Now right now you might think that the Uesugi have a bit of an advantage with the Takeda having lost two players in the last two lynches. The problem is that Fanderlay was a flip day 1 vote which can help a little bit in seeing who is on what side the example of this is that Hanas voted for Fanderlay and was in the same faction as him. The Hanas lynch was easy to get behind because of the reveal. So there is much less faction information to be gathered from that lynch.

[Ultama]

Denul, on 08 February 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm a Daddy!!!

Won't be on much but to celebrate I'd like you all to follow me in lynching Olar Ethil. Non entity for the entirety of the game and I'm not sure but I don't think he's even voted.

vote Olar Ethil

Congratulations! Welcome to the no sleep club. Kids are awesome.

Olar was just replaced on Thursday I believe due to "No fault of his own" if I remember correctly. Then the game went into lock down. I am inclined to give a new player a little bit longer to get there feet under them before lynching them.

[Shadow]

been kinda busy last few days so ill have a proper re-read through EOD, im quite sure in my last d2 post i made some notes for myself to follow up on.

Also if its true OE's been coasting by hes a good place to start in terms of pressure.

[Eloth]

Congratulations Denul! Now we should all do the only responsible thing and lynch you, so that you can focus on being a parent .

I agree with Ultama that going after OE for lack of activity seems harsh. As well as this, I'm averse to following up the Hanas lynch with another low information train (which it seems like that would be, since it's based on what he hasn't said rather than anything he has said).

[Denesmet]

Ultama, on 08 February 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

Also the difference in a two faction game then in a three faction game. In three factions people can hide in two factions and try to culture hunt a weakened third faction. In a two faction game as soon as you start to culture hunt the other faction you are painting a picture on your back of who you are. Now right now you might think that the Uesugi have a bit of an advantage with the Takeda having lost two players in the last two lynches. The problem is that Fanderlay was a flip day 1 vote which can help a little bit in seeing who is on what side the example of this is that Hanas voted for Fanderlay and was in the same faction as him. The Hanas lynch was easy to get behind because of the reveal. So there is much less faction information to be gathered from that lynch.

Did anyone really step up to try to defend Hanas? Could be a good place to start.... Going to have to do some reading!

[Emurlahn]

Denul, on 08 February 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm a Daddy!!!

Won't be on much but to celebrate I'd like you all to follow me in lynching Olar Ethil. Non entity for the entirety of the game and I'm not sure but I don't think he's even voted.

vote Olar Ethil

Gait doesn't have many more posts, hasn't voted either. It seems they keep up with thread, yet they never really contribute, except for D1 bullshit. Plus OE should be just about to get modkilled, unless they have some reasonable RL excuse. So why OE over Gait?

From Hanas's experiment we only got Denul's countervote, then OMtose attacking and trying to discredit Hanas (yeah, parroting) , supported by Grasp, but hey their tactic worked this time. Stuff that followed, no matter how much on point it was, had only little point in result. Let me know if I missed something.

Off to bed

[Denul]

2 no's for Olar Ethil.. check

[Denul]

Unless whatever Emur said means no. You can only vote one person after all. Babies asleep. Mum's asleep. Daddy just drank a bottle of lucozade.

[Emurlahn]

It certianly isn't no

I'm just saying if I wanted to go this way, I'd prefer Gait and gave my reasons why. Then I'm asking for your reasons. Actually I don't really think it's bad idea, but because you didn't give the reasons I asked for

vote Gait


now I'm really off

[Denesmet]

So here's what I found...

Shadow, on 04 February 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

Hanas, on 03 February 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Vote Kadagar Fant
Because I've got a suspicion and I want to see where it goes.

tempting to join to see where hanas experiment will go.

That being said in all the drama that happened in the previous day Omtose didn't really make any points just drove by lynching. Strikes me as the kind of behavior where you're trying to fly under the radar.

Im hoping to be on for the next little while. If not its good night for now.

Shadow is tempted to vote KF just to see what Hanas was on about... He ends up being the 4th vote on Hanas. Was he just resigned to Hanas getting lynched and trying to distance, or was the above post an attempt to direct us somewhere other than Hanas? The thing that strikes me the most about the above, which was his 1st post, and the 5th post overall of Day 2 is that on Day 3, the 2nd post Shadow makes is:

Shadow, on 08 February 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

been kinda busy last few days so ill have a proper re-read through EOD, im quite sure in my last d2 post i made some notes for myself to follow up on.

Also if its true OE's been coasting by hes a good place to start in terms of pressure.

Again, very early in the day trying to point us at someone... I am always suspicious of anyone trying to steer the thread, though I'd be more suspicious if he were trying to steer today's lynch during Day 2, which I've seen no evidence of...

Thing is, Shadow also did a bunch of posting in support of a Hanas lynch because of all the WIFOM it created... He even looked at other people, and still came back to Hanas, so yeah, not too sure bout this one...

Telas, on 04 February 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Is it possible this is an attempt to distract from a leader that was getting heat? Otherwise, I just don't understand it.

Though Telas did vote for Hanas, this was the first thing that stuck out to me as trying to rationalize why Hanas revealed, aka trying to find a reason not to vote for him... Still, Telas was second on the lynch train, so not sure if I'd be willing to agree that he was defending Hanas.


All in all, not a whole lot to play with...

[Denesmet]

My next thing is to go back to look at the reasons that Hanas did what he did... There's a post that kind of stood out to me:

Hanas, on 04 February 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

I see we've all been busy!
So, my motives for doing a reveal:
a) there's no other way for me to actually communicate any results with members of my faction without using obscure signalling and hoping nobody notices it. In fact, the only guaranteed way I'd be able to do that is if I signalled at my leader, and that'd be monumentally stupid.
We have no real information from night 1, and the lynch didn't help anyone one bit.
c) I can only determine alignment. It's not actually that impressive a finding role.
d) Reveals are fun.

So, the thing that stood out to me is his first point, but probably not for the reason you're thinking. Assuming he wasn't lying, he was right, there was no other way for him to actually communicate results with members of his faction. So, it would stand to reason that he's trying to have us all believe that KF is Uesugi and that Hanas was trying to let his fellow Takeda know that KF is not to be trusted...

Thing is, though, is that it would certainly be much more interesting if he was sacrificing himself to make it LOOK like KF is Uesugi. There isn't really enough on thread, at the moment, for me to decide whether I think he was lying or telling the truth, but I'll certainly be keeping an eye out on CFs as they come in, see where the folks who ended up on the Hanas train end up...

I mean, I thought it was pretty clear that Hanas was Takeda based on the information he gave us and the scenes... So, I'm thinking that he was using this to mislead us... Of course, it all could just have been a complete fuck up as Lish hasn't played in a while!

[Denesmet]

Denul, on 08 February 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

I'm a Daddy!!!

Won't be on much but to celebrate I'd like you all to follow me in lynching Olar Ethil. Non entity for the entirety of the game and I'm not sure but I don't think he's even voted.

vote Olar Ethil

I've no issue with pressure votes, but I'm pretty much always against voting someone just cause they're a non-entity... It's just a wasted lynch if we can't compare his CFs to anything he's done on thread.

[Eloth]

Emurlahn, on 08 February 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

From Hanas's experiment we only got Denul's countervote, then OMtose attacking and trying to discredit Hanas (yeah, parroting) , supported by Grasp, but hey their tactic worked this time. Stuff that followed, no matter how much on point it was, had only little point in result. Let me know if I missed something.

I think the discussion of the Night Scene in relation to Hanas' reveal may also be worth looking at, since there was some analysis about which faction Hanas might actually be there, which wasn't really a thing outside of that.

[Olar Ethil]

just checking in quickly (or i guess, finally...).

I need a little bit of time to read up on what is the haps around here but yeah. should be around in a few hours or something.

[Telas]

So a couple "early" votes on non-participants. I think thread momentum got broken up by weekend break and then Shin's time zone, (thus the early comment).

Anywho, to answer this: Occam's razor is that it was dumb play. Occam's razor has been dulled by years of trying to skin Fener day one because of the alt paranoia. A whole lot of us were trying to unwind that play, mine was simply real-time on thread. Thus, when I figured my mind had made up I voted. I knew, barring something drastic, I was either going to remove an enemy faction member (+), or a bad teammate (+).

Win/win for me.

Denesmet, on 08 February 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

So here's what I found...

Shadow, on 04 February 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

Hanas, on 03 February 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Vote Kadagar Fant
Because I've got a suspicion and I want to see where it goes.

tempting to join to see where hanas experiment will go.

That being said in all the drama that happened in the previous day Omtose didn't really make any points just drove by lynching. Strikes me as the kind of behavior where you're trying to fly under the radar.

Im hoping to be on for the next little while. If not its good night for now.

Shadow is tempted to vote KF just to see what Hanas was on about... He ends up being the 4th vote on Hanas. Was he just resigned to Hanas getting lynched and trying to distance, or was the above post an attempt to direct us somewhere other than Hanas? The thing that strikes me the most about the above, which was his 1st post, and the 5th post overall of Day 2 is that on Day 3, the 2nd post Shadow makes is:

Shadow, on 08 February 2016 - 08:41 PM, said:

been kinda busy last few days so ill have a proper re-read through EOD, im quite sure in my last d2 post i made some notes for myself to follow up on.

Also if its true OE's been coasting by hes a good place to start in terms of pressure.

Again, very early in the day trying to point us at someone... I am always suspicious of anyone trying to steer the thread, though I'd be more suspicious if he were trying to steer today's lynch during Day 2, which I've seen no evidence of...

Thing is, Shadow also did a bunch of posting in support of a Hanas lynch because of all the WIFOM it created... He even looked at other people, and still came back to Hanas, so yeah, not too sure bout this one...

Telas, on 04 February 2016 - 06:24 PM, said:

Is it possible this is an attempt to distract from a leader that was getting heat? Otherwise, I just don't understand it.

Though Telas did vote for Hanas, this was the first thing that stuck out to me as trying to rationalize why Hanas revealed, aka trying to find a reason not to vote for him... Still, Telas was second on the lynch train, so not sure if I'd be willing to agree that he was defending Hanas.


All in all, not a whole lot to play with...

[Eloth]

I agree with Telas that most likely it was just Lish being rusty. If he was trying to make people think something about KF, I don't see why he would claim that he hadn't used his ability on KF.