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Quick Ben's timeline on the Wiki

#1 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 11:41 AM

Sorry if this has been brought up elsewhere or discussed on the Wiki, but I was looking up something about QB and noticed the following discription regarding his history:

Quote

At one time, prior to his joining the Malazan Army, Quick Ben had been a High Priest of Rashan in Seven Cities. On the night the cult was annihilated at the Rashan Temple at Ehrlitan, he had watched Lostara Yil perform the Shadow dance, having arrived at the temple under a different name. Cotillion told Lostara years later that on that night, the attraction between her and Quick had been mutual as far as he knew. After the dance, during the night, the assassinations had begun, although Quick Ben had not been alone, there had been an assassin as well. Apart from Lostara, Quick Ben also let Bidithal go, an act which brought him the wrath of Shadowthrone.[19]

Quick Ben had been a former prime contender for the Magi of Shadow position in the Deck of Dragons. [citation needed]

After defecting from the cult of Rashan and burning the robes of his vestment[20], he became a mage primarily utilizing the Meanas warren. He then became one of twelve members of the Holy Falah'd's Mage cabal.

According to the Korvalah demon Pearl, the name Ben Adaephon Delat was marked on the scrolls listing the Mages who fell to the Empire in Seven Cities[21].


Bolded the part that made me think.

Now, I am not 100% sure on QB's timeline, but I've always had the impression that he could not have been a priest of Shadow exclusively before becoming a mage serving the Holy Falah'd. Is there a citation regarding that? For one, Whiskeyjack calls him the youngest of the mages in the employ of the Holy Falah'd. And also, the Cult of Rashan was destroyed after the Malazan Empire had conquered Seven Cities, at which point QB was still recognized as a High Priest. The destruction of the cult seems to have happened shortly after ST and Cotillion's ascension. Maybe it was all close in time, but still seems not like for QB to have been a priest, then to have become a mage in the employ of the Holy Falah'd, then to have openly returned to the cult just to destroy it, especially if he had been working with ST and Cotillion at the time of the cult's destruction. Also, this was likely closer to the time at which he'd be a likely candidate for the Magi of Shadow position.

It's all jumbled and maybe it's been talked over on the wiki already. I just wanted to make sure. Will provide what quotes I can later when I'm home, if needed.

All I can give right now is the following from HoC, emphasis added by me:

Quote

Delat, who, it proved, was both a High Priest and a Bridgeburner, and whatever the Emperor's reason for annihilating the cult, his was the hand that delivered the death-blow.


..meaning that happened after his time as a mage for the Holy Falah'd. Also, I may be wrong on ST having had ascended already at that time, but anyway, my point is that the timeline on the Wiki seems the wrong way around.
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#2 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 03:44 PM

The timeline is not important, the timeline is not important. Mantra for meditation purposes.
"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." - Viktor Frankl
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#3 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 04:47 PM

That would be funny if not for the fact that it's on the Wiki and supposed to provide correct information about the character.
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#4 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:54 PM

View PostPuck Puckster, on 08 January 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

That would be funny if not for the fact that it's on the Wiki and supposed to provide correct information about the character.


Writers lie. They dissemble. They retcon. They choose not to retcon. The longer the story, the more coincidence creeps in.

Whatever makes the story better.
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#5 User is offline   Egwene 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 05:56 PM

View PostPuck Puckster, on 08 January 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

That would be funny if not for the fact that it's on the Wiki and supposed to provide correct information about the character.


Totally agree, Puck!

All the current editors on the Wiki are totally committed to making the Wiki as accurate as possible, something reflected in more and more information being given source references enabling the user to check it out. Unfortunately, some edits made in the past seem to be made from people's memory rather than having the book at hand at the time. That can result in inaccuracies like getting the timeline wrong. Users questioning things is a great help in making the Wiki 100% true to the books :(

I'll raise the issue on QB's Wiki discussion page as well.
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#6 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:06 PM

View PostGnaw, on 08 January 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

View PostPuck Puckster, on 08 January 2016 - 04:47 PM, said:

That would be funny if not for the fact that it's on the Wiki and supposed to provide correct information about the character.


Writers lie. They dissemble. They retcon. They choose not to retcon. The longer the story, the more coincidence creeps in.

Whatever makes the story better.


Again, he is not asking about the writing.

He is asking it the wiki correctly sums up the writing.

As for the timeline, I agree with Puck. Ben is a mage (and likely priest even then) of the holy falah'd during the invasion. That leads to the events where he gets chased through Raraku, the soulshifting happens, and then he and Kalam join the Bridgeburners.

The fall of the Rashan cult happens sometime later as it is post conquest and even post ST ascension, so Ben must already be a BB. Remember, he was a visiting high priest from elsewhere, not a local one.

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 08 January 2016 - 07:29 PM

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#7 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 09:49 PM

I suspect the confusion may simply come from the idea that Quick Ben is a "visiting high priest from some other temple in the Rashan cult" in Lostara Yil's flashback to the night QB and Dancer destroyed her temple. As a mere initiate of the temple, Lostara can only be remembering what she was told at the time, and it's a more than fair guess that Dancer and QB concocted some imaginary Rashan temple for QB to pretend to be part of in order to infiltrate the temple in the first place.

After all Lostara is not that old - the events at the temple have to be within the last few decades before HoC. And before QB was a Bridgeburner, he served the Holy Falah'dan for some time, so he almost certainly did not have time to legitimately become a high priest of the cult of Rashan on the side of either his Falah'd-mage job or his BB-job.


View PostNevyn, on 08 January 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

as it is post conquest and even post ST ascension


ST and Cotillion were pretty pissed at QB when they saw him in GotM, and that's after they had disappeared for a time. I suspect a close cooperation between QB and Dancer like in the Rashan temple is more likely to have happened before K&D's ascension and their relationship with QB broke down. On the other hand, it would make a lot of sense for the whole "former high acolyte of shadow who burned his vestments" thing at QB and ST's meeting in GotM to be tied up with the Rashan cult infiltration, too.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#8 User is offline   Felisin Fatter 

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:01 PM

Well, QB is older than he looks, potentially by millennia. But even if you don't believe that, mages can look young for centuries. So I'd ignore his age as a factor, he doesn't lack for time or anything. This is how I see the timeline:

- 'Delat' (whatever he calls himself) is part of the rashan cult, a high priest possibly. He has an old link to darkness/shadow, that is likely why. He gets sick of the game and burns his vestments - maybe also because he is unaging and it's time for a change? I think he also changes name and appearance, becomes an unassuming minor mage (using Meanas!).
- He joins the Fahlad's bodyguard, meets Kalam, does this for many years.
- The Bridgeburners hunt him, he and Kalam join them.
- Kellanved takes note of this 7C native who has the skills, looks and knowledge to infiltrate the Rashan cult - he has his reasons to wipe them out, I'm sure. I guess QB has no qualms either, after his earlier time with them. (Or maybe humans using Darkness weakens MD / Kurald Galain somehow, and this is his reason?)

I also have a theory why he spares Bidithal: I think Bidithal already served tCG instead of Rashan. And QB's job was to wipe out the Rashan worshipers - Lostara was no true believer. Neither was Bidithal - Bidithal was at this time already preparing Sha'ik (elder) for tCG. This is why they survived. That's how it makes sense in my head, anyway.
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#9 User is offline   The White Crow 

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 04:44 AM

Quick Ben... why anyone would shorten him to QB after reading the series... anyway! I think he is far more than we would believe... Older.

Who exactly is he speaking to at the Spar of the Andii?! Sounds like an old conversation. Had a wild moment when I thought he was an Azanthani...
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#10 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 11:31 AM

Mother Dark. One of his twelve souls is Andii.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 18 July 2016 - 11:32 AM

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#11 User is offline   ArchieVist 

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 09:20 PM

Since I was just starting a reread when I first saw this question, I decided to keep an eye out for details regarding Quick Ben's timeline. Hooboy, I wasn't expecting it to take almost two years to reach Chapter 8 of House of Chains, though.


It seems pretty clear that the Cult of Rashan episode happens after the forging of the Bridgeburners and before the ascension of Kellanved and Dancer while Kellanved is still Emperor. Some Cotillion quotes from HoC Ch8 regarding the night of the destruction of the cult:

Quote

Delat, who, it proved, was both a High Priest and a Bridgeburner, and whatever the Emperor's reason for annihilating the cult, his was the hand that delivered the death-blow.

Quote

Shadowthrone—who was not Shadowthrone then, simply a particularly adept and ambitious practitioner of Rashan's sister warren, Meanas

Quote

Back then, I was Dancer

Quote

Did you know Delat—or, rather, the man I would eventually learn was Delat—would have taken you for his own? Not just the one night. You would have joined him as a Bridgeburner, and that would well have pleased him.


Here's my proposed revised timeline for the Wiki:

1. QB is one of 13 mages in the cabal working for the Holy Falah'd


2. Bridgeburners chase the mage cabal into Raraku. QB picks up the cabal's souls including Renisha, a Meanas mage, and Etra, a Rashan mage. This is probably why QB can be a high mage of Rashan later. I was going to say the same of Meanas, but in GotM Ch12 QB tells Shadowthrone he "did indeed rise far [in Meanas], Shadowthrone, in service to you" and bargains to remove the threat of the "reward" of the Rope for those leaving ST's service (see more below).



3. Whiskeyjack invites QB into the BBs, and QB convinces WJ not to let the Emperor know.

Quote

The wizard slowly nodded. 'Hence this fateful meeting. Sir, Kalam and I, we'll follow you, now. If you would have us.

'Whiskeyjack grunted. 'The Emperor will take you from me.

''Only if you tell him, Commander.'
MoI Ch8


4. Whiskeyjack keeps QB's secret. According to the imperial demon, Pearl, QB's name is "marked on the scrolls of those High Mages who fell to the Empire in Seven Cities." GotM Ch 13


5. QB as Bridgeburner and High Mage of Rashan is chosen to bring down the cult of Rashan. Dancer comes along without knowing who QB is. QB betrays Kellanved by allowing Bidithal to escape.


6. Kellanved and Dancer ascend


7. QB becomes an acolyte of Meanas serving Shadowthrone (a Meanas mage's soul likely comes in handy to quickly move up the ladder)


8. QB leaves ST's service and burns his vestment. This gets revealed in GotM Ch12 when QB tricks ST into lifting the "reward" of the Rope for abandoning the faith.


Quote

"He realized who I was just as I left." Quick Ben's grin broadened. "You should have heard him scream."


"Well, are you surprised? How many High Priests burn the robes of their vestment?"


"Not enough, if you ask me. Without temples and priests the gods' bloody meddling couldn't touch the mortal realm. Now, that would be paradise, right, friend?"



The fact that QB felt the need to make this bargain suggests he really was in service to ST after his ascension.

This post has been edited by ArchieVist: 06 April 2018 - 09:23 PM

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