[Andorion]

MODGOD NOTICE OF THREAD SPLIT
RECENT SHADOWS OF THE APT POSTS FROM THE READING AT TMOMENT THREAD HAVE BEEN SPLIT TO THIS THREAD.
CARRY ON.

Briar King, on 09 November 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

T77, on 09 November 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 November 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

Finished Shadows of the Apt 10: Seal of the Worm Good series, definitely worth a read, be patient for the first three books, payoff is good.

Now resuming my Game of Thrones journey, starting A Clash of Kings

With all of the Apt talk recently I figured it was a good time to jump back in. I read the first two books a few years ago and enjoyed them, but found the second book a bit of a slog. I believe a few of you in this forum told me to continue as it gets better. I'm in the middle of book 3 now and I am really liking it so far, best in the series up to this point. Good to hear it gets better after book 3.

I also finished up on my Tad Williams binge. I finished the last 3 books in Shadowmarch and found the series to be really solid and a great read. I also finished Bobby Dollar #3, Sleeping Late on Judgement Day, which was great. With all of this Tad has moved into my top tier of authors. Looking forward to the new book in Memory, Sorrow and Thorn next year. I need to reread the first three before then.

I'm taking full credit on the Apt explosion here as it seems to taken off once I started bk 9 2months ago after my long Rome series read. Your welcome everyone

Well you definitely motivated me to tackle it. I put it back on the TRP on your rec and started it when I saw how much you liked the finale

This post has been edited by Abyss: 12 November 2015 - 04:37 PM

[Macros]

On to heirs of the blade. Blasted through the end of sea watch earlier, his writting has just gotten so much better post book 4

[Morgoth]

Briar King, on 05 November 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 05 November 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Briar King, on 04 November 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

Hmm Apt has kinda blown up among the members in the past 2 months. This is a good thing I just wish it was that popular when it was coming out. Still though it's never to late to grow the Apt thread! Enjoy or go get them and enjoy. My advice to people starting is to attempt to get to bk 5 atleast before stopping and your having trouble with the 1st arc in 1-4. Adrian becomes so much better a writer from 5-10.

Yeah, I lost interest in the series with the second book. I am willing to believe the series picks up, but there is so much else out there that I have yet to read.

Yep you were pretty vocal about it early in thread. Idk if bk 5 was out then or not but it indeed gets fantastic. Maybe one day you can retry.

Haha, yeah I was pretty frustrated with the series at that time.

[Macros]

I preferred Scarab path over Sea watch tbh BK, but still enjoyed it.

[Macros]

Just finished heirs of the blade, his best book yet I think. Just downloaded Air war, probably get a few chapters read before work finishes, unless everyone decides to leave early, I'll not stop then if they do

[Andorion]

To me, Air War is the best book of the series

[Macros]

maybe should just merge these posts into the shadows of the apt thread??

Anyway, my enjoyment of book 7 made me pick out what I disliked about Sea watch. I don't really enjoy Stenwolds POVs and it was basically all him and his flailing about, I enjoyed the book, and it progressed the story, and I'm sure some parts of what happened will tie in to the grand finale, but the setting didnt interest me anywhere near as much as the commonweal

[Andorion]

Macros, on 12 November 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

maybe should just merge these posts into the shadows of the apt thread??

Anyway, my enjoyment of book 7 made me pick out what I disliked about Sea watch. I don't really enjoy Stenwolds POVs and it was basically all him and his flailing about, I enjoyed the book, and it progressed the story, and I'm sure some parts of what happened will tie in to the grand finale, but the setting didnt interest me anywhere near as much as the commonweal

I enjoyed the setting of Sea Watch a lot, but like you I found too much of Stenwold could be a downer. In Heirs of the Blade, I hated the first section with the mopey Tynisia, but after that everything improved a lot.

[Mentalist]

Andorion, on 12 November 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

To me, Air War is the best book of the series

Arguably, Scarab Path is on par. Both of the "first in the arc" books work really well in shifting the tone of the series, and flowing well. Air War has superb action, but Path gets mad respect fro me, b/c it's such a marked improvement in characterization, which was Tchaikovsky's weakness earlier. Path has some absolutely sterling character work.

[Aptorian]

Obligatory Shadows of the Apt is shit comment

I get that a lot of people say that the series gets better but I don't really care even if the tenth book in this series is the equivalent of Memories of Ice having a love triangle with Fall of Hyperion and Heroes Die.

If the first 3-5 books in the series are disappointing, slow, tedious, trite and generally unsatisfying to finish, why put yourself through that? Just go read something else instead. There's mountain of other books to contend with.

There's a saying in publishing that if you don't hook the reader by the first page, then the manuscript goes in the trash. Asking the reader to make their way through 1500 pages of bad fiction is asking too much.

[Macros]

Didn't you praise the first few books of SoT?"that's a dirge of an opener if ever there was one.
You could easily read a synopsis of the first 3 books, and the following books are pretty good.

I'll agree with you that its a piss por ratio of bad to good (so far I'm on the 50% mark) and I'm surprised that the second arc got published given how weak the first seems to be regarded by the majority

[Aptorian]

If I recall correctly, I actually agree with you that the opening of Sword of Truth is tedious but when he gets past the veil, the book throws in a ton of fairy tale tropes and fantasy elements that I thought Goodkind used really well. Gotta love the "Princess kick of Truth".

In my opinion the first two books of Sword of Truth were strong enough on their own, mainly because unlike the Apt series, it mainly focuses on Dicky Rahl and his adventures. Having to read chapters with that Cheerwell woman was like reading a boring version of the Mhybe chapters in MoI.

[Morgoth]

Also, they banned fire in the first book. That's when I knew I was reading the works of a litterary mastermind.

[Macros]

I possibly made it half way through first rule, pure dirge apt, pure unadulterated dirge.


Id rate black and gold as a better book than wfr

[End of Disc One]

Apt, on 13 November 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

[i]There's a saying in publishing that if you don't hook the reader by the first page, then the manuscript goes in the trash. Asking the reader to make their way through 1500 pages of bad fiction is asking too much.

Although I get where you're coming from, I find this comment ironic on a Malazan forum.

Also I think that in the first 4 books, you see pieces of what makes the series great, but they're just uneven. Book 1 has a great start that makes you interested in the world, but it falls apart in the second half. Book 2 has some awesome siege sequences, and introduces a few colorful characters. Book 3 has more good world building. Book 4 has a lot of shit hitting fans, but it feels rushed.

Basically I don't think the first 4 books suck; they're just uneven. I've only read book 5 after that, but I found it didn't have the negative aspects that the other books had.

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 13 November 2015 - 02:32 PM

[Macros]

Does make you wonder, when you're reading a really bad book, that wasn't a vanity publishing, how the author secured a deal, that allowed sequels (or further series) to be signed up in advance.

[Mentalist]

Apt, on 13 November 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

If I recall correctly, I actually agree with you that the opening of Sword of Truth is tedious but when he gets past the veil, the book throws in a ton of fairy tale tropes and fantasy elements that I thought Goodkind used really well. Gotta love the "Princess kick of Truth".

In my opinion the first two books of Sword of Truth were strong enough on their own, mainly because unlike the Apt series, it mainly focuses on Dicky Rahl and his adventures. Having to read chapters with that Cheerwell woman was like reading a boring version of the Mhybe chapters in MoI.

I've said it multiple times, in multiple threads: it's a matter of what you are looking for.

The early books are highly eneven, and characterization sucks, frankly. If you cannot handle that, you will not like these books (and that's totally ok and a very legitimate complaint).
Tchaikovsky has 2 very strong assets, even in the early books: he writes very solid action scenes, and he has immense world-building.

I've repeated this story muyltiple times: I read Bk 2+3 on vacation, when I had nothing else to read. Book 2 nearly made me drop the series, b/c the characters were SO BAD (at their absolutely lowest, and most emo point. Virtually all of them).
But Book 3 had Solarno. Which was incredibly-well written as a location, and a setting. With action. And the world-building redeemed the series for me, because I am, unashamedly, a total sucker for cool, original worldbuilding-it's one of the main things I look for in my SFF.
So the series hooked me. And Tchaikovsky's characterization improves steadily, which was great.

But my advice on whether one should read Shadows of the Apt is basically "If you need deep characters, you won't like it. If you want good action in a crazy world, you probably should give it a shot".

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 13 November 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Apt, on 13 November 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

If I recall correctly, I actually agree with you that the opening of Sword of Truth is tedious but when he gets past the veil, the book throws in a ton of fairy tale tropes and fantasy elements that I thought Goodkind used really well. Gotta love the "Princess kick of Truth".

In my opinion the first two books of Sword of Truth were strong enough on their own, mainly because unlike the Apt series, it mainly focuses on Dicky Rahl and his adventures. Having to read chapters with that Cheerwell woman was like reading a boring version of the Mhybe chapters in MoI.

I've said it multiple times, in multiple threads: it's a matter of what you are looking for.

The early books are highly eneven, and characterization sucks, frankly. If you cannot handle that, you will not like these books (and that's totally ok and a very legitimate complaint).
Tchaikovsky has 2 very strong assets, even in the early books: he writes very solid action scenes, and he has immense world-building.

I've repeated this story muyltiple times: I read Bk 2+3 on vacation, when I had nothing else to read. Book 2 nearly made me drop the series, b/c the characters were SO BAD (at their absolutely lowest, and most emo point. Virtually all of them).
But Book 3 had Solarno. Which was incredibly-well written as a location, and a setting. With action. And the world-building redeemed the series for me, because I am, unashamedly, a total sucker for cool, original worldbuilding-it's one of the main things I look for in my SFF.
So the series hooked me. And Tchaikovsky's characterization improves steadily, which was great.

But my advice on whether one should read Shadows of the Apt is basically "If you need deep characters, you won't like it. If you want good action in a crazy world, you probably should give it a shot".

For me introducing Taki breathed life back into the series. And IMO, bad as book 2 is, the ending of Salute the Dark is a major payoff, even before the Scarab Path.

And with Scarab Path it really was like a different author was writing.

[End of Disc One]

I'm going to disagree with this forum some more and say that I really liked book 2. It was definitely my favorite out of the first 4.

[Mentalist]

End of Disc One, on 13 November 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

I'm going to disagree with this forum some more and say that I really liked book 2. It was definitely my favorite out of the first 4.

Are you a witch?

Edit, since that seemed facetious AND spammy: ok, I can see the merits (Salma's story was cool, and the infodump on Commonweal was pretty great). But I just couldn't get over the emo. Bk1 ended up falling apart into a mess of teenage love triangles when they were all together, and bk 2 just started with all the same teens being equally mopey, but now having a storyline each. It was a tad too much.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 13 November 2015 - 06:37 PM