[Whisperzzzzzzz]

It makes sense logically, but in terms of the metanarrative, I can't see the point of Jaqen doing that. Maybe it makes sense in the books to come?

[Gorefest]

amphibian, on 06 June 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

I have long wondered if the characters within the show/books give that much of a crap about their Valryian swords like the readers/writer do. They seem to not be prized much beyond sentimental value - nobody honestly tries to steal them or preserve them. They just give them to the highest ranked decent warrior in the family and go.

So someone like little lady Mormont may not care about one sword when she's counting exactly how many swords at arms she can give.

They do, though. Just look back at the scene only last week with Randall Tarly when he was going on about their family sword. In the books the Valyrian swords have always been a big deal, and the show has highlighted them too on various occasions. I appreciate it may not be a big deal in particular for the mormonts or that the young lady mormont doesn't fully appreciate the rarity or value of such a sword. But considering how big a deal they seem to be to everyone else, it just struck me as weird that it wasnt even commented on. Davos made a big deal about old Mormont trusting Jon as his steward, but didnt mention the possibly much more impressive show of trust in passing his valyrian blade over to Jon.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 06 June 2016 - 10:38 PM

[Gorefest]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 June 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

It makes sense logically, but in terms of the metanarrative, I can't see the point of Jaqen doing that. Maybe it makes sense in the books to come?

It would imply that Arya still has the backing of the many-faced god / house of black and white / god of death. That would definitely have storyline implications going forward.

[Abyss]

Gorefest, on 06 June 2016 - 10:41 PM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 June 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

It makes sense logically, but in terms of the metanarrative, I can't see the point of Jaqen doing that. Maybe it makes sense in the books to come?

It would imply that Arya still has the backing of the many-faced god / house of black and white / god of death. That would definitely have storyline implications going forward.

It's a fascinating theory.

[worry]

Apparently not, as her face already appeared on the Faceless Man who drank the poison last season, when she kept pulling the faces off in quick succession.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

The other half said "That's Jaqen" straight away last night. I think that could be right but it will be interesting to see why/where Arya is/what implications it then has. I still find myself impatient for the Arya plot to move on.

Such a shame to only have Ian McShane for one episode - he was terrific. I can only assume pointing The Hound at the Brotherhood is a way to run into Brienne and Jaime (and hopefully introduce Stoneheart). If the show does introduce her I just hope it does something with her quickly - she felt so far like a largely pointless side plot in the books (bear in mind I haven't read them for some time, I could be forgetting something major, but I don't recall she's done much yet other than turn the Brotherhood several shades darker and start hanging Freys and Lannisters, and by all accounts not hanging Brienne.)

Lady Mormont was brilliant - excellent little actress.

I am really enjoying Margaery's game at the moment - I really hope she's the one who eventually gets the drop on the High Sparrow and not Cersei. As great as Jonathan Pryce is, he's got to be going down soon.

Really liked Olenna/Cersei and the scenes with Jaime - he's not had a whole lot to do this season so it was nice to get him and Bronn back together (in my head there is a 90's GOT where they and a few others like Jorah, Jaime and Davos run around having buddy cop adventures and Stannis puts up with their crap and makes himself feel better by correcting their grammar. It's glorious.)

[Battalion]

amphibian, on 06 June 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

I have long wondered if the characters within the show/books give that much of a crap about their Valryian swords like the readers/writer do. They seem to not be prized much beyond sentimental value - nobody honestly tries to steal them or preserve them. They just give them to the highest ranked decent warrior in the family and go.

So someone like little lady Mormont may not care about one sword when she's counting exactly how many swords at arms she can give.

Weren't the Lannisters pretty excited when they took Ned's sword? I'm sure they stole it and melted it down to make new ones for Jaime and Tyrion, didn't they? Must be of some importance

[Battalion]

When Cersei gets some home truths hammered into her my the old lady it's like something clicks in her mind. She finally realises she's losing all her power and influence. All she can do now is unleash the Mountain!

[Terez]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 07 June 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

I can only assume pointing The Hound at the Brotherhood is a way to run into Brienne and Jaime (and hopefully introduce Stoneheart). If the show does introduce her I just hope it does something with her quickly - she felt so far like a largely pointless side plot in the books (bear in mind I haven't read them for some time, I could be forgetting something major, but I don't recall she's done much yet other than turn the Brotherhood several shades darker and start hanging Freys and Lannisters, and by all accounts not hanging Brienne.)

We've barely seen her in the books. Aside from rumors, only in two scenes: the AFFC prologue in some Frey's POV, and Brienne's last chapter. So if you want to brush up on Stoneheart, that's easy enough.

IMO she was no more pointless than the Brotherhood was in the first place. She's on a revenge mission, and she's much more concerned about Freys than Lannisters. Perhaps just because there are so many goddamn Freys. I think in the books GRRM is going for the irony of Frey extinction. No one in Westeros has more heirs than Walder Frey.

I love how the Freys are portrayed in the show. All the men look like freeriders from Flea Bottom, rather than nobles from a powerful house. Even Davos pulls off nobility better than they do. Those hats are something else.

Anyway, Lady Stoneheart. If nothing else, she serves as another reminder of the power of R'hllor which also resurrected Jon, her favorite son. And it's an exciting return even for showfans who aren't hype about it already.

Battalion, on 07 June 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

amphibian, on 06 June 2016 - 09:29 PM, said:

I have long wondered if the characters within the show/books give that much of a crap about their Valryian swords like the readers/writer do. They seem to not be prized much beyond sentimental value - nobody honestly tries to steal them or preserve them. They just give them to the highest ranked decent warrior in the family and go.

So someone like little lady Mormont may not care about one sword when she's counting exactly how many swords at arms she can give.

Weren't the Lannisters pretty excited when they took Ned's sword? I'm sure they stole it and melted it down to make new ones for Jaime and Tyrion, didn't they? Must be of some importance

Yes, but that happened in the books. When they go off on their own, they sometimes get lost with this stuff. So we get Sam awkwardly stealing Heartsbane and Jon forgetting about Longclaw. Though you could argue that Jon might be concerned that they would begrudge his right to their family sword.

Battalion, on 07 June 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

When Cersei gets some home truths hammered into her my the old lady it's like something clicks in her mind. She finally realises she's losing all her power and influence. All she can do now is unleash the Mountain!

And wildfire. Can't forget that.

I was always kind of disappointed that they skipped Cersei's burning of the Tower of the Hand in the show. But Bran's vision of wildfire rushing through a corridor is not something that Aerys did, as far as we know.

[worry]

Are we taking bets on if/how Ramsay will die?

[Battalion]

Walder Frey eats him for feeding his grandson to the dogs

[worry]

Death by direwolf seems the most poetic way.

[Terez]

I want his new wife to cut off his manhood and feed it to the goats (while he bleeds to death).

[Battalion]

trying to think of something tramatic enough ... maybe he can get raped by Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun

[Maark Abbott]

Ehhh. I don't know if EP5 set the bar too high but this episode left me feeling cold again. I get that we've had some setup and obviously they're building up to Burned Face Man vs Zombie Nation, but for the most part it just felt like a filler episode. And I get that the book we're in/moving on from (ADWD) was like 70% filler, but... Ehhh.

[Tattersail_]

Maark Abbott, on 07 June 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

Ehhh. I don't know if EP5 set the bar too high but this episode left me feeling cold again. I get that we've had some setup and obviously they're building up to Burned Face Man vs Zombie Nation, but for the most part it just felt like a filler episode. And I get that the book we're in/moving on from (ADWD) was like 70% filler, but... Ehhh.

I said to my GOT whatsapp group something similar. This was another filler episode, the good thing about that though is the pay off will be so good, I'm of the mind that the next episode will fucking rock, or we'll get 2 more filler, set up episodes and then the awesome one near the end.

As a fan of Malazan you must like this sort of build up and pay off. Most books in the Malazan universe have 70% set up and then that epic ending, except Dust of Dreams which is mostly set up.

[Traveller]

Arya theory 2 - that she and the waif are the same person.

After Jaqen gives her the vial at the start of her 'training', there are two forces at work within her, fighting for dominance. This would mean that the stabbing was her fm training winning over her Stark personality though, which I'm not sure is a route they'd take in the show - although the 'waif' returning to Jaqen and revealing herself to be Arya would be pretty cool.

Definitely something up though, it seemed out of character to suddenly be walking around in plain sight throwing money about.

My bet is the players - the actress specifically.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 07 June 2016 - 08:41 AM

[Tattersail_]

Quote

Arya's interaction with actress Lady Crane in the sixth episode was integral to her plan. "We can assume she knows enough from training to figure the waif will attack to the body". "So I believe she has 1 or more pigs blood pouches around her body. She knows where and how to do this because last episode… she saved the actress. The actress then provided her help to make the scene on the bridge large and realistic. … She then leaves the water and leaves a trail of blood…. to lead her [enemies] to her. Expecting an unarmed (because she choose not to show needle during the fight scene) and injured girl; they will instead walk down a dark alley and be met with an uninjured girl who knows how to fight in the dark and carrying a sword."

Quote

Others believe the person stabbed on the bridge wasn't Arya at all, but rather Jaqen H'ghar disguised as her. "That wasn't Arya. She would have been carrying needle". "She wasn't aware that Jaqen said not to make her suffer, so making a big show of her suffering doesn't make sense. It was Jaqen testing the waif, and by stabbing her in the stomach and not just slashing the throat, she disobeyed orders just like arya did. Jaqen is gonna lay some faceless justice down."

other points, inter mixed...

Quote

Why was Arya behaving in such a cool, confident, easy-breezy manner? The last we saw of her, she was terrified and hiding in the dark, knowing that some bad shit was about to go down. The most generous reading of her behavior, at the end of episode seven, is that she was preparing for the fight of her life. She's intimately familiar with the ways of the Faceless Men, and she wouldn't feel comfortable until she was a thousand miles away—and even then, she'd always be looking over her shoulder. So why is she marching through the streets of Braavos, calm and collected, without a care in the world? Why does she act almost dramatically as she tosses money to the ship's captain, as though she wants people to be talking about her? That does not compute.

Quote

Where was Needle, the sword she recovered last week? You're telling me that Arya, facing the absolute certainty of an assassination attempt, doesn't have her sword? (And no, there's no way in hell Arya sold Needle, her only defense against a cruel world and her last connection to her family, for the money she gave to the ship's captain. Not plausible.)

Quote

The Arya that we getting stabbed on the bridge was actually Jaqen H'ghar in disguise.It would explain why she had money. It would explain why she was behaving in a very visible, almost flamboyant way as she booked her passage to Westeros, and why she seemed completely calm on the bridge. This version of Arya—which is to say, Jaqen—wanted to be seen, wanted to get caught, wanted to get stabbed. Here's what it would accomplish:

1. Jaqen would be testing the Waif, and whether she was fit for the Faceless Men.

2. He would be protecting Arya, saving her life as she saved his.

3. He would be fulfilling the old promise to give her a third life. More specifically, he would be fulfilling the promise to give her his own life.

The last we see of "him," he's staggering down the streets of Braavos. Now, check out the promo for next week's episode, the eighth in the season:

next week's

Spoiler

Quote

You'll notice two things that are relevant to our theory: The Waif sprinting, signifying that her story is far from over, and Arya running and jumping, looking very much like a girl who has not been stabbed multiple times in the stomach. It's pretty easy to imagine Jaqen finding Arya, offering her his life, and conveying a warning—the Waif is still after you—just before he dies

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 07 June 2016 - 10:12 AM

[Tattersail_]

Or

Quote

The Waif and Arya are the same person.The idea here is that Arya is experiencing a sort of dissociative identity disorder, perhaps brought about by entering the House of Black and White itself. The evidence is strong, as first laid out (as far as I know) by Reddit user catNamedStupidity—the Waif is never seen by anyone but Jaqen or Arya, she knows everything about Arya, and she’s constantly at war with her.

To become a Faceless Man, Arya needs to kill off the girl that was Arya Stark, and become “no one.” The Waif is her idealized self—the one that Arya will become when her old identity is finally dead.

There’s even a scene in the streets of Braavos where Arya seems to be doing battle with herself when seen from a neutral point of view, Fight Club style:

https://cdn.pastemag...x273-467854.gif

Quote

And consider this tidbit, from the episode review I wrote with Josh Jackson earlier today:

So when the waif asks Jaqen to kill Arya, this is really Arya asking to kill herself so she can become a Faceless Man, but—key point—failing to do so.

Yes, it’s crazy, and yes, it could look very idiotic when the situation resolves, but I find it intensely compelling. Especially because Maise Williams dropped a really coy riddle in aninterview, in which she said that “Arya is in the trailer more times than people have realized, because they don’t realize it’s her.”

Could she be in the trailer more often because she’s both Arya and the Waif? Also, the fact that the Waif didn’t murder her when she had the chance could represent Arya’s own inner conflict about losing her identity as a Stark, which she is now holding onto by a thread.

[Maark Abbott]

Tattersail_, on 07 June 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 07 June 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

Ehhh. I don't know if EP5 set the bar too high but this episode left me feeling cold again. I get that we've had some setup and obviously they're building up to Burned Face Man vs Zombie Nation, but for the most part it just felt like a filler episode. And I get that the book we're in/moving on from (ADWD) was like 70% filler, but... Ehhh.

I said to my GOT whatsapp group something similar. This was another filler episode, the good thing about that though is the pay off will be so good, I'm of the mind that the next episode will fucking rock, or we'll get 2 more filler, set up episodes and then the awesome one near the end.

As a fan of Malazan you must like this sort of build up and pay off. Most books in the Malazan universe have 70% set up and then that epic ending, except Dust of Dreams which is mostly set up.

People said that about TWOK as well. They better not be TWOKing it or I'll be greatly displeasured.