[Dr. Philodox]

From what I have read so far in Gardens of the Moon and Deadhouse Gates, Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole and has an equally shitty reputation. I don't think ascension is responsible for his lack of humanity, considering there are other ascended beings who have demonstrated more morality e.g Fener, Rake and even Cotillion. I'm guessing it was purely his charisma and ability to lead that won the loyalty of his men. So far I haven't encountered much of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them. Am I right folks?

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 31 August 2015 - 10:03 PM

[nacht]

I think ST likes being unpredictable.
So he made his morality unpredictable, since it is usually a big giveaway of somebody's future actions.

This post has been edited by nacht: 31 August 2015 - 11:30 PM

[paran falcon]

I've always kinda thought ST was 25% to 33 1/3% insane. Or insane genius. Of course, that could also be an act to aid with the before-mentioned unpredictability...

[Andorion]

ST is a bit psychotic, but he allows that to appear as his dominant aspect thus hidinig his extremely cunning and calculating nature.

[Puck]

Indeed. And also, none of this means ST doesn't have good intentions, e.g. making people's life better/easier by outlawing tribal feuds and cults, back when he was still Kellanved. But there's no rule that says he has to be goodie-goodie about it, and as already has been pointed out, his insanity allows him to be unpredictable.

On the other hand, consider Cotillion.. He may come off as more human and nice and all, but he's the freaking god of killing people for money. Just sayin'.

This post has been edited by Puckstein: 01 September 2015 - 01:39 PM

[Itwæs Nom]

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

[theocean]

You have to remember how new they are to ascension or whatever too, sometimes that might take some working out. I also think he likes to be a mystery, he is from the shadow realm. I think hes just very smug. Have you read NOK yet? It dives into his background a little better, helps to maybe understand him better. I think hes just a smug dude though

[Andorion]

Regarding being new to Ascension, I think Cotillion has a more ambiguous personality as if he is trying to retain his humanity. ST seems more in the god groove. I could say more about Cotillion but this is the DG forum

[Dr. Philodox]

Charlie Nom, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

Sorry, I don't follow you? Could you elaborate?

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 02 September 2015 - 05:38 PM

[Dr. Philodox]

theocean, on 01 September 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

You have to remember how new they are to ascension or whatever too, sometimes that might take some working out. I also think he likes to be a mystery, he is from the shadow realm. I think hes just very smug. Have you read NOK yet? It dives into his background a little better, helps to maybe understand him better. I think hes just a smug dude though

I haven't read it yet but I look forward to it. A lot of good replies here that make things a little clearer. He is new to the game after all.

As for Cotillion being the God of killing people for money, thats true I guess. I get the feeling though that he has not changed so very much personalitywise from when he was mortal. He didn't let himself go quite like Kellanved did I suspect. In particular its Shadowthrone's disregard for the soldiers of his own former empire that pisses me off. It will be interesting to read more about his past life as emperor.

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 02 September 2015 - 05:48 PM

[Itwæs Nom]

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

Sorry, I don't follow you? Could you elaborate?

How can you call him real ass-hole? I dont know whether we are reading the same book, but he alaways came as an awesome insane screaming deceiting genius. Hes just fucking awesome.

[Dr. Philodox]

Charlie Nom, on 02 September 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

Sorry, I don't follow you? Could you elaborate?

How can you call him real ass-hole? I dont know whether we are reading the same book, but he alaways came as an awesome insane screaming deceiting genius. Hes just fucking awesome.

Haha, I admit he is a great character and I enjoy reading his scenes It seems to me however that the Empire needed to rid itself of him or be subject to his whims forever. Gods should be barred from office!

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 02 September 2015 - 06:45 PM

[Gorefest]

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Haha, I admit he is a great character and I enjoy reading his scenes It seems to me however that the Empire needed to rid itself of him or be subject to his whims forever. Gods should be barred from office!

Keep reading and find out, i'd say. A lot of characters will surprise and challenge your original perceptions, so ST may be no different. But without wanting to give anything away, you may be judging the guy rather harshly.

[Abyss]

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

...As for Cotillion being the God of killing people for money, thats true I guess. ...

So much RAFO here, but consider... Assassin means killer, but not necessarily mercenary.

[nacht]

Charlie Nom, on 02 September 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

Sorry, I don't follow you? Could you elaborate?

How can you call him real ass-hole? I dont know whether we are reading the same book, but he alaways came as an awesome insane screaming deceiting genius. Hes just fucking awesome.

It is very possible that he truly loves Quick Ben.
I find that truly amusing. sorry can't stop laughing.

[Redhawk]

I've always had the impression that while Shadowthrone is somewhat insane, he's quite intelligent too and uses his more eccentric traits to cover it up.

This post has been edited by Redhawk: 20 September 2015 - 01:09 PM

[Kanese S's]

Charlie Nom, on 02 September 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Charlie Nom, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 31 August 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:

...Shadowthrone in particular comes across as a real ass-hole ...of Laseen but I believe she made one good call at least in putting an end to them...

How can someone say something like that?

Sorry, I don't follow you? Could you elaborate?

How can you call him real ass-hole? I dont know whether we are reading the same book, but he alaways came as an awesome insane screaming deceiting genius. Hes just fucking awesome.

None of those qualities disqualify Shadowthrone from, well, being a bit of an asshole.

Abyss, on 02 September 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Edmond Leonard, on 02 September 2015 - 05:40 PM, said:

...As for Cotillion being the God of killing people for money, thats true I guess. ...

So much RAFO here, but consider... Assassin means killer, but not necessarily mercenary.

Indeed. Also, he's the god of assassins, specifically. Not of hitmen, not of murderers. Murders we term assassinations are generally performed for political or military purposes.

[Dr. Philodox]

I have progressed further in the series, and looking back at this thread I can see where the mistake in my thinking was. Its been made pretty clear from the viewpoints of several characters that Kellanved was quite insane even in life. He wasn't particularly loved by his contemporaries. It was up to those around him to keep him in check, particularly Tayschrenn,who it is said prevented the empire from becoming the emperor's own nightmare.


A wonderfully entertaining character. I love how some of the best characters in this series are such unscrupulous bastards.

This post has been edited by Edmond Leonard: 12 January 2016 - 11:04 PM

[GnosticArchon]

He's one of my favourite characters. He's extremely intelligent, and extremely ruthless when necessary. It's worth noting how much respect people have for him, though. He inspired enough loyalty to unite various tribal cultures previously at war, he knows how to keep an empire together - and how to improve the different cultures within it. That's probably his most interesting trait: his understanding of human nature, from the most deplorable lows to the most noble highs. He gets some more humanizing scenes by the end of the series, too.

Kellanved is smarter than you in every way and he's not afraid to be a fruitloop about it. Which makes him a joy to read. There's a few excerpts from his writings strewn throughout the series in the chapter prefaces which give you more insight into his personality. And in the end of this book he rewards Kalam and Fiddler for their actions. He's not completely heartless.

Read Dancer's Lament for a better insight into his character, also. That's a really fun book.

[Gorefest]

.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 13 July 2017 - 12:58 PM