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Please do, Jen'isand Rul. It was my understanding that Itkovian plays a role that somehow spoils Silverfox's plans. I'm usually content being slightly behind the ball with Erikson hoping to catch on with the second reading but every little bit helps.
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Mhybe's Realm and Telann
#2
Dagger 
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Posted 14 July 2005 - 05:30 AM
This is the stuff that drove me nuts in MoI. I just had a hard time wrapping my head around anything to do with Mhybe. Just too damn metaphysical and besides, the character was a grade A whiner. Meh. Give me Anomander or Kruppe, or a couple of sappers stealing a table.
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#3
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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:13 AM
Well since the elder warrens essentially belog to denizens of burn's realm, it is not suprising that her realm encompasses them.
I think however though that they are not strictly part of burns realm, it's all a bit metaphysical but i think the mhybe being on the malazan world does not mean that the warren itself is part of the malazan world, as by that logic all teh warrens would eb part of burns realm seeing as all the users of the warrens live there.
Re the t'lan ay i think they beocme mortal in teh dream realm and everywhere else as well, seeing a syou cna travel from warren to warren, being mortal in one warren means you are mortal everywhere. So tool was made mortal in the warren, and tehn travelled to the malazan world.
I think however though that they are not strictly part of burns realm, it's all a bit metaphysical but i think the mhybe being on the malazan world does not mean that the warren itself is part of the malazan world, as by that logic all teh warrens would eb part of burns realm seeing as all the users of the warrens live there.
Re the t'lan ay i think they beocme mortal in teh dream realm and everywhere else as well, seeing a syou cna travel from warren to warren, being mortal in one warren means you are mortal everywhere. So tool was made mortal in the warren, and tehn travelled to the malazan world.
#4
Folken
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Posted 16 July 2005 - 07:32 AM
Tool wasn't released from the vow in the conventional way. The other Imass once released will become what they should've become before they took on the vow, dust, as all things disintegrate. Tool was different, I'm almost done MoI again so I'll explain better once I'm done.
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#5 Guest_Serenity_*
Posted 16 July 2005 - 06:57 AM
On a side question if I can... We say Tool running round after he was released. If all the Imass are released does this mean that they will all become 'human' again? if so, there is going to be some powerful people running round again, without the overwhelming hatred for the jaghut to rely on.
#6 Guest_chapmann_*
Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:29 AM
Okay, this is my first post. I've just been lurking on this site and picking up some things I've missed while reading the books.
Anyway. When i reread the ending of MoI I noticed some things that had me wondering. I didn't reread the whole book so i could have missed something that is obvious.
When Silverfox talkes to the T'lan Imass when she's about to release them from the Vow but they have to go to Assail and stop the human tyrant they are in the Warren of Telann as is said on p. 1146. Then on the next page they seem to be in the dream world. I qoute from Pran Chole and Silverfox's conversation:
But the world where the Ay and Togg and Fanderay lived was the world of the dream of the Mhybe. Does this mean that the Mhyve dreams the Warren of Telann? If so the Mhybe's "power" must rival Burn's. But the Mhybe sleeps in Burn's realm. Burn's realm aka the Malazan world must therefore encompasses two elder warrens, Telann and Omtose Phellack. Or am I completely wrong?
Ad one last question. When Silverfox released the T'lan Ay so they became the Ay they became mortal in the dream realm. But when she releases Tool he becomes mortal in the Malazan world. How?
Jens
Anyway. When i reread the ending of MoI I noticed some things that had me wondering. I didn't reread the whole book so i could have missed something that is obvious.
When Silverfox talkes to the T'lan Imass when she's about to release them from the Vow but they have to go to Assail and stop the human tyrant they are in the Warren of Telann as is said on p. 1146. Then on the next page they seem to be in the dream world. I qoute from Pran Chole and Silverfox's conversation:
quote:Pran Chole was long in replying. 'Cast your eyes about you, Summoner. At the life now in this realm. Reach out and sense the power, here in the earth.'
She frowned. 'I do not understand. This realm is now home to the Beast Thrones. There are Rhivi spirits here... two wolf-gods...'
But the world where the Ay and Togg and Fanderay lived was the world of the dream of the Mhybe. Does this mean that the Mhyve dreams the Warren of Telann? If so the Mhybe's "power" must rival Burn's. But the Mhybe sleeps in Burn's realm. Burn's realm aka the Malazan world must therefore encompasses two elder warrens, Telann and Omtose Phellack. Or am I completely wrong?
Ad one last question. When Silverfox released the T'lan Ay so they became the Ay they became mortal in the dream realm. But when she releases Tool he becomes mortal in the Malazan world. How?
Jens
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Posted 02 August 2005 - 09:26 PM
Why are you so sure that Tool is unique, as far as we know everyone who was released from the vow in the beast realm becomes truly alive again, the realm is where the ritual becomes undone. So i'd say if teh imass were released in the beast realm they would beocme mortal again, but if they were released in the normal world they would become dust.
#8
fan_83
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Posted 03 August 2005 - 01:40 PM
i'm guessing that all warren are a realm onto its own... but they have portals into burn's realm...burn do no encompass the elder warrens... as when teh first andii comes from KG... which is alien to burn...
i would agree with imp his.... tool was probabaly released in the dream world adn moved back to the malaz..
iktovian took the pain and memories of the imass and grounded it into mhybe's realm whereby making it alive where formerly it was dead...
he basically took the burden and pain of the imass and use it to enliven a world..
also once the imass becoem mortal they will be weaker than they are now..
being part of the vow makes them immortal and near immune to damage... as mortal they may move faster but they will age, need food and can be killed...
i would agree with imp his.... tool was probabaly released in the dream world adn moved back to the malaz..
iktovian took the pain and memories of the imass and grounded it into mhybe's realm whereby making it alive where formerly it was dead...
he basically took the burden and pain of the imass and use it to enliven a world..
also once the imass becoem mortal they will be weaker than they are now..
being part of the vow makes them immortal and near immune to damage... as mortal they may move faster but they will age, need food and can be killed...
#9
kaf09
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Posted 04 August 2005 - 06:25 AM
@IH, As I recall, Tool did seem to be unique among the T’lan Imass; he relinquished his sword and renounced the ages old war to which he was at first opposed. Silverfox (presumably) granted him mortality. I believe that the Mhybe’s realm is now the Imass spirit world – in which the T’lan (including those undead journeying to Assail) will eventually dwell as souls or spirits or what have you. There is a certain symmetry to this because apparently the Mhybe’s realm is related to the beast realm – a pantheon which the T’lan Imass had outlived.
#10
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Posted 04 August 2005 - 02:53 PM
I'd agree that Tool is different from other imass, but i'm not sure that the affect of the closing of teh ritual will not be the same for the other imass.
After all when you consider pran choles ocmment taht the realm was one where the ritual unravelled, and that the ay are now apparently mortal in this realm, at no point are they described as spirits, as is tool in another realm. So presumably if the imass are reease din the beast hold they will be mortal in the beast hold at the very least in the beast hold... and probably in the normal world as well.
After all when you consider pran choles ocmment taht the realm was one where the ritual unravelled, and that the ay are now apparently mortal in this realm, at no point are they described as spirits, as is tool in another realm. So presumably if the imass are reease din the beast hold they will be mortal in the beast hold at the very least in the beast hold... and probably in the normal world as well.
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