[BellaGrace]

So I'm about halfway through OST, and I actually like it so far (normally I struggle with ICE's books).

One thing is really bothering me right now though.

In MOI it's clearly stated that Rake sunk Moons Spawn after he personally closed up the room that all the Bridge Burners were buried in. There's no way that Rake or the other TIste Andii (who are all still in Black Coral) at this point would allow Moon Spawn to float back up somewhere farther south and allow a bunch of thieves and mercenaries to defile the place - especially considering who was buried there - personally by Rake.

Also - the reason Black Coral is black is because Moon Spawn sank there right? Some kind of leaking of the KG warren? Or was that unreleated to Moons Spawn?

Either way - the storyline doesn't gel very well for me since a big part of the looting was happening while Rake was alive and is continuing after he died.

This could be a RAFO situation - regardless... it bugs me.

[ShadowOwl]

Whiskeyjack and Rake had a conversation about how the Andii approached death. When one of them died, they just left the body where it fell. Whiskeyjack said his crew buried them and saved their trinkets, and Rake could not understand why. To them the spirit is gone and the body is nothing. So Rake would not have looked at Moonspawn the same way we would think.

Black Coral was such because of the manifestation of the KG warren, which becomes important later in the series.

[BellaGrace]

ShadowOwl, on 23 March 2015 - 08:34 PM, said:

Whiskeyjack and Rake had a conversation about how the Andii approached death. When one of them died, they just left the body where it fell. Whiskeyjack said his crew buried them and saved their trinkets, and Rake could not understand why. To them the spirit is gone and the body is nothing. So Rake would not have looked at Moonspawn the same way we would think.

Black Coral was such because of the manifestation of the KG warren, which becomes important later in the series.

I disagree - if Rake didn't care, he wouldn't have offered Moon Spawn as the place to bury the Bridge Burners. He wouldn't have taken the care he did with putting all the wards around the room to make sure their bodies stayed safe. He surely wouldn't have done all that just to let it float back up and have people loot it. The Tiste Andii in general might not care, but Rake would have.

[Andorion]

BellaGrace, on 23 March 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

So I'm about halfway through OST, and I actually like it so far (normally I struggle with ICE's books).

One thing is really bothering me right now though.

In MOI it's clearly stated that Rake sunk Moons Spawn after he personally closed up the room that all the Bridge Burners were buried in. There's no way that Rake or the other TIste Andii (who are all still in Black Coral) at this point would allow Moon Spawn to float back up somewhere farther south and allow a bunch of thieves and mercenaries to defile the place - especially considering who was buried there - personally by Rake.

Also - the reason Black Coral is black is because Moon Spawn sank there right? Some kind of leaking of the KG warren? Or was that unreleated to Moons Spawn?

Either way - the storyline doesn't gel very well for me since a big part of the looting was happening while Rake was alive and is continuing after he died.

This could be a RAFO situation - regardless... it bugs me.

After placing the graves inside, Rake sealed Moon's Spawn and set it adrift. It had taken massive damage form its time underwater, and it was assumed that ot would soon sink into the sea. However from OST it seems that the Spawn drifted further than assumed and then sank, causing the fragments to stick above water.

Quote

Whiskeyjack’s body was gone. And Ganoes Paran was bereft, his heart a vast cavern, dark, echoing with emotions he would not, could not show.
He and the wizard, silent, stared at Moon’s Spawn as it drifted ever farther eastward, out over the sea, now a third of a league distant. It rode low in the air, and some time soon – perhaps a month from now – it would touch the waves, somewhere in the ocean, and then, as water rushed once more into the fissures, filling the chambers within, Moon’s Spawn would sink. Down, beneath the insensate seas ...
No-one approached them.
Finally, the wizard turned. ‘Captain.’
‘What is it, Quick Ben?’
‘Moon’s Spawn. Draw it.’
Paran frowned, then his breath caught. He hesitated, then crouched down, hand reaching to wipe smooth a small span of earth. With his index finger he etched a round-cornered rectangle, then, within it, a rough but recognizable outline. He studied his work for a moment, then looked up at Quick Ben and nodded.
The wizard took a handful of Paran’s cloak in one hand, said, ‘Lead us through.’
Right. Now how do I do that? Study the card, Paran – no, that alone will land us on its damned surface, a short but no doubt thoroughly fatal fall to the waves below. A chamber, Picker said. Rake’s throne room. Think darkness. Kurald Galain, a place unlit, silent, a place with cloth-wrapped corpses . . .
Eyes closed, Paran stepped forward, dragging Quick Ben with him.
His boot landed on stone.
He opened his eyes, saw nothing but inky blackness, but the air smelled ... different. He moved forward another step, heard Quick Ben’s sigh behind him. The wizard muttered something and a fitful globe of light appeared above them.
A high-ceilinged chamber, perhaps twenty paces wide and more than forty paces long. They had arrived at what seemed the formal entrance – behind them, beyond an arched threshold, was a hallway. Ahead, at the far end of the chamber, a raised dais.
The huge, high-backed chair that had once commanded that dais had been pushed to one side, two of its legs on a lower step, the throne leaning. On the centre of the dais three black-wood sarcophagi now resided.
Along the length of the approach, to either side, were additional sarcophagi, upright, on which black-webbed sorcery played.
Quick Ben hissed softly through his teeth. “Ware the looter who penetrates this place.’
Paran studied the sorcery’s soft dance over the unadorned sarcophagi. ‘Wards?’ he asked.
‘That, and a lot more, Captain. But we need not be worried. The Bridgeburners are within these ones flanking the approach. Oh, and one Black Moranth.’ He pointed to a sarcophagus that, to Paran’s eyes, looked no different from all the others. ‘Twist. The poison in his arm took him a bell before the first wave of Dujek’s companies.’ Quick Ben slowly walked towards another sarcophagus. ‘In here . . . what was left of Hedge. Not much. The bastard blew him-self up with a cusser.’ The wizard stopped to stand before the coffin. ‘Picker described it well, Hedge. And I will tell Fiddler. Next time I see him.’ He was silent a moment longer, then he turned to Paran with a grin. ‘I can picture him, his soul, crouching at the base of Hood’s Gate, driving a cracker between the stones ...’
Paran smiled, but it was a struggle. He set off towards the dais. The wizard followed.
Quick Ben spoke names in a soft voice as they proceeded. ‘Shank ... Toes ... Detoran ... Aimless ... Runter ... Mulch ... Bucklund ... Story ... Liss ... Dasalle ... Trotts – uh, I would’ve thought the Barghast ... no, I suppose not. He was as much a Bridgeburner as the rest of us. Behind that lid, Paran, he’s still grinning ...’
As they walked, Quick Ben spoke aloud every name of those they passed. Thirty-odd Bridgeburners, Paran’s fallen command.
They reached the dais.
And could go no further. Sorcery commanded the entire platform, a softly coruscating web of Kurald Galain.
‘Rake’s own hand,’ the wizard murmured. ‘These ... spells. He worked alone.’
Paran nodded. He had heard the same from Picker, but he understood Quick Ben’s need to talk, to fill the chamber with his echoing voice.

So Rake also took magical precautions against intruders.



Black Coral is Black not because of the Spawn, but because of what Rake and the other Andii mages did. During the assault on Coral they unveiled Kurald Galain - full unveiling. This had the effect of enclosing the city within it.

[Twisty]

Okay, so spoilers I guess, but OST takes place after DoD/TCG right? Which is important for my post and the fact it might contain spoilers of the afore-mentioned books.

We know that all of the events of OST are after Rake died, as various people theorise (in the books I think, or maybe just on the forum...) that with the power of Rake gone, the Tyrant now believes it will be unopposed. So he wouldn't exactly be dealing with the desecration of Moon's Spawn. So too the Andii are removed from Genabackis, who after TCG are back living in Kurald Galain, not (now un-Black) Coral anymore.

However, they were still around when the Moon went down - I would suggest that the reason Rake and other Andii did nothing was: Rake had more important things to do. Like reuniting his people with their long-lost mother goddess and thereby saving the world. Or something like that. He was busy. So too were Korlat and Orfantal occupied, and Spinnock Durav. Every other Andii appears in TTH to not care about the world outside Black Coral. So all the Andii were either busy or uninterested, and the Moon got scavenged in the meantime.

[BellaGrace]

Twisty, on 24 March 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

Okay, so spoilers I guess, but OST takes place after DoD/TCG right? Which is important for my post and the fact it might contain spoilers of the afore-mentioned books.

We know that all of the events of OST are after Rake died, as various people theorise (in the books I think, or maybe just on the forum...) that with the power of Rake gone, the Tyrant now believes it will be unopposed. So he wouldn't exactly be dealing with the desecration of Moon's Spawn. So too the Andii are removed from Genabackis, who after TCG are back living in Kurald Galain, not (now un-Black) Coral anymore.

However, they were still around when the Moon went down - I would suggest that the reason Rake and other Andii did nothing was: Rake had more important things to do. Like reuniting his people with their long-lost mother goddess and thereby saving the world. Or something like that. He was busy. So too were Korlat and Orfantal occupied, and Spinnock Durav. Every other Andii appears in TTH to not care about the world outside Black Coral. So all the Andii were either busy or uninterested, and the Moon got scavenged in the meantime.

I thought OST took place concurrent wtih DoD - I think I read references to the Andii still at Black Coral.

Regardless - there were around 5-6 years between the events of MOI when Moon Spawn was crashed and Rake dying - plenty of time to do something about it IMO. I am not saying the Tiste Andii care about Moon's Spawn, but I think Rake would not allow the desecration of the place where his friend WJ was buried along with all the other Bridgeburners. If he didn't care about their bodies, he wouldn't personally interred them in Moons Spawn with spells of protection around them.

[worry]

Or he had full faith in those spells of protection. I'm not sure there's any need or point in doing anything besides that. Rake is certainly privy to the fact that the BBs ascended (he and Hood and ST are in cahoots anyway, so it's no coincidence the BBs are filling in for Hood); they're fine, their bodies are fine, and Moon's Spawn is out of his hands. And he certainly, certainly doesn't care about their bodies in any long-term sense. Bodies rot. Why would he? He cares about the honoring of their sacrifices, and what it means to the surviving BBs (notably Paran).

[BellaGrace]

worry, on 24 March 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

Or he had full faith in those spells of protection. I'm not sure there's any need or point in doing anything besides that. Rake is certainly privy to the fact that the BBs ascended (he and Hood and ST are in cahoots anyway, so it's no coincidence the BBs are filling in for Hood); they're fine, their bodies are fine, and Moon's Spawn is out of his hands. And he certainly, certainly doesn't care about their bodies in any long-term sense. Bodies rot. Why would he? He cares about the honoring of their sacrifices, and what it means to the surviving BBs (notably Paran).

I do agree with that line of reasoning - in any case - I actually do really like this book so far. It's the first one (of ICE's) I've actually really liked and didn't feel like I was reading just because "I had to".

[Abyss]

BellaGrace, on 23 March 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

...In MOI it's clearly stated that Rake sunk Moons Spawn after he personally closed up the room that all the Bridge Burners were buried in. There's no way that Rake or the other TIste Andii (who are all still in Black Coral) at this point would allow Moon Spawn to float back up somewhere farther south and allow a bunch of thieves and mercenaries to defile the place - especially considering who was buried there - personally by Rake.

By this point Rake is gone, and the Andii really don't care about the things they leave behind. Anything worthwhile as far as the Andii would have been concerned was taken with them when they left Moon's Spawn. The value of what was left was subjective to whoever was looking for it.

Quote

Also - the reason Black Coral is black is because Moon Spawn sank there right? Some kind of leaking of the KG warren? Or was that unreleated to Moons Spawn?

Completely separate event. Black Coral was the site of a complete unveiling of Kurald Galain. Moon's Spawn sunk somewhere else altogether.

Quote

Either way - the storyline doesn't gel very well for me since a big part of the looting was happening while Rake was alive and is continuing after he died.

Rake likely wouldn't have cared, per above.

I could say more but i don't want to spoil. Keep reading.