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End... and not. Finished the book Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   Upwood 

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:44 PM

I finished DoD so I'm in the middle of the two. I have some questions and I guess some is RAFO. But anyway that's the things that stinged me as I finished the book today and I wanted them answered NOW. No just kidding :( But I also guess there will be some time until I get answers, if I get answers.

Toc - Tool
I didn't like the roles from Tool and Toc. Why did he kill himself? To save the warriors but he must have known what's going to happen. He could have convinced the Barghast by showing his skills and kill some of them.
Why did Toc 'destroy' Tool at the gate? Just to save Torrent? He did Trust Olar Ethil? Couldn't he have said it differently? Tell him the two girls and the boy are still alive. He didn't say what Olar Ehil wanted anyway.

Sinn – Grub:
Why did they go into the Azath again? Do we know what they were looking for? They could have been some help to the Bonehunters.

14 Jaghut
Who did the 14 Jaghut fight and win? The Nah'ruk?

Sinter
Why did she send Kisswhere/Masan Gilani away? Did she has a vision? I mean just to tell them they will get betrayed? Why not any messenger? Why does it have to look like they

Dragnipur
Where are the rest of the guys from Dragnipur? Draconus is back, so should be the rest of the survivors. Are they just somewhere and Draconus landed directly in the wasteland because he has the power to do so?

This post has been edited by Upwood: 26 November 2014 - 01:47 PM

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#2 User is offline   Spoilsport Stonny 

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 01:53 PM

Heh heh...hehehehe....hehhehehhhHEHAAHHAHHAHAH AH AH HAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

EDIT: The Crippled God is really good book.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 26 November 2014 - 01:53 PM

Theorizing that one could poop within his own lifetime, Doctor Poopet led an elite group of scientists into the desert to develop a top secret project, known as QUANTUM POOP. Pressured to prove his theories or lose funding, Doctor Poopet, prematurely stepped into the Poop Accelerator and vanished. He awoke to find himself in the past, suffering from partial amnesia and facing a mirror image that was not his own. Fortunately, contact with his own bowels was made through brainwave transmissions, with Al the Poop Observer, who appeared in the form of a hologram that only Doctor Poopet could see and hear. Trapped in the past, Doctor Poopet finds himself pooping from life to life, pooping things right, that once went wrong and hoping each time, that his next poop will be the poop home.
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#3 User is offline   Mcardle 

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 03:05 PM

I would imagine that a lot of Dragnipurians were destroyed in the battle vs chaos and many were packed on the cart pretty much already gone, but I may be misremembering, I would also guess they would of ensured they were as far away as possible from Draconus as possibly, hiding under a rock. Wouldn't you if you had been coiped up with him for aeons?
Last In, First Out
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#4 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 05:49 PM

View PostUpwood, on 26 November 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

I finished DoD so I'm in the middle of the two. I have some questions and I guess some is RAFO. But anyway that's the things that stinged me as I finished the book today and I wanted them answered NOW. No just kidding :( But I also guess there will be some time until I get answers, if I get answers.

Toc - Tool
I didn't like the roles from Tool and Toc. Why did he kill himself? To save the warriors but he must have known what's going to happen. He could have convinced the Barghast by showing his skills and kill some of them.
Why did Toc 'destroy' Tool at the gate? Just to save Torrent? He did Trust Olar Ethil? Couldn't he have said it differently? Tell him the two girls and the boy are still alive. He didn't say what Olar Ehil wanted anyway.

Sinn Grub:
Why did they go into the Azath again? Do we know what they were looking for? They could have been some help to the Bonehunters.

14 Jaghut
Who did the 14 Jaghut fight and win? The Nah'ruk?

Sinter
Why did she send Kisswhere/Masan Gilani away? Did she has a vision? I mean just to tell them they will get betrayed? Why not any messenger? Why does it have to look like they

Dragnipur
Where are the rest of the guys from Dragnipur? Draconus is back, so should be the rest of the survivors. Are they just somewhere and Draconus landed directly in the wasteland because he has the power to do so?



1. Toc-Tool: RAFO
2. Sinn-Grub RAFO
3. Jaghut: Yup. ALso RAFO
4. Sinter: If I remember this correctly, you should have gotten this by now. If you dont, you should by the middle of the Criippled God, so RAFO
5. Good question. Most of them were destroyed in the battle, only the very powerful would have survived. No definite info on this, except for the Ascendant Bridgeburners. For them, RAFO.

So RAFO, so much RAFO. (What I am trying to tell you is read the Crippled God right now!!!!)
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#5 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:36 PM

Could be misremembering, but I believe Sinn and Grub are hiding from the Bonehunters because they don't want to be anywhere near Fiddler's deck reading. Same reason Telorast and Curdle leave them for a while.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#6 User is offline   Upwood 

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 01:10 PM

Yeahyeahyeah I've started.
But thanks for the answers anyways.

View Postworry, on 26 November 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Could be misremembering, but I believe Sinn and Grub are hiding from the Bonehunters because they don't want to be anywhere near Fiddler's deck reading. Same reason Telorast and Curdle leave them for a while.

Sinn and Grub were at the reading. They wanted to flee because of the reading, but I think they knew it won't work to hide in the azath.
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#7 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:20 PM

That's correct. Grub received 'Sceptre' during the reading.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 28 November 2014 - 02:21 PM

She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#8 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 06:34 PM

Ah dang.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#9 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:29 AM

View PostUpwood, on 28 November 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Yeahyeahyeah I've started.
But thanks for the answers anyways.

View Postworry, on 26 November 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Could be misremembering, but I believe Sinn and Grub are hiding from the Bonehunters because they don't want to be anywhere near Fiddler's deck reading. Same reason Telorast and Curdle leave them for a while.

Sinn and Grub were at the reading. They wanted to flee because of the reading, but I think they knew it won't work to hide in the azath.



View Postworry, on 28 November 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Ah dang.


If I remember correctly Kindly got the crazy dogs to look for them and then drag them back.
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#10 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:12 AM

So they were there for the above reason, come back for the reading, and then went back to the Azath again for some reason and the latter is what the OP is asking about, hmm?

I went to the Tor reread (it's Chapter 5) and they return to the Azath where they sense Icarium's new warrens (which have moved into the shell of the dead Azath), but Grub notices that they are broken somehow. Sinn suggests they fix them and away they go.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#11 User is offline   Upwood 

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:50 PM

Ah yes I remember. Thanks.
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#12 User is offline   Takko 

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:09 PM

And why can't Rake return from Dragnipur?
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#13 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:12 PM

Technically speaking we don't know if he can't. We may never know. Or we may. Or not.
She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#14 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 05:16 PM

View PostTakko, on 01 December 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

And why can't Rake return from Dragnipur?


I assume you have read TtH right? So what did you make of waht happened inside Dragnipur?
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#15 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:04 PM

View PostTakko, on 01 December 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

And why can't Rake return from Dragnipur?



Rake's not in Dragnipur. He dissipated when he moved the Gate from the sword to Black Coral.

If he can be said to be anywhere, it's Kurald Galain, or possibly Mother Dark's personal warren.
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#16 User is offline   Takko 

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 09:52 AM

View PostAbyss, on 01 December 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

View PostTakko, on 01 December 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

And why can't Rake return from Dragnipur?



Rake's not in Dragnipur. He dissipated when he moved the Gate from the sword to Black Coral.

If he can be said to be anywhere, it's Kurald Galain, or possibly Mother Dark's personal warren.



Of course I might be wrong, but I thought he had a conversation with either Draconus or Hood inside of Dragnipur?
My understanding of the fight between dassem and Rake was that Dassems blade forced Dragnipur on Rake and thereby killing Rake with Dragnipur and sending him to Dragnipurs realm.

As to what happened in Dragnipur I really couldn't make of it a lot. Chaos vs. all of Dragnipurs prisoners, it seemed like a pointless fight to me, since how do you defeat chaos?! I have to admit there was a big lack of understanding regarding that on my part.

This post has been edited by Takko: 03 December 2014 - 09:53 AM

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#17 User is offline   Andorion 

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 10:05 AM

View PostTakko, on 03 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 01 December 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

View PostTakko, on 01 December 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

And why can't Rake return from Dragnipur?



Rake's not in Dragnipur. He dissipated when he moved the Gate from the sword to Black Coral.

If he can be said to be anywhere, it's Kurald Galain, or possibly Mother Dark's personal warren.



Of course I might be wrong, but I thought he had a conversation with either Draconus or Hood inside of Dragnipur?
My understanding of the fight between dassem and Rake was that Dassems blade forced Dragnipur on Rake and thereby killing Rake with Dragnipur and sending him to Dragnipurs realm.

As to what happened in Dragnipur I really couldn't make of it a lot. Chaos vs. all of Dragnipurs prisoners, it seemed like a pointless fight to me, since how do you defeat chaos?! I have to admit there was a big lack of understanding regarding that on my part.


The point of the battle was to defend the gate of Darkness inside the wagon long enough. What Rake did was sacrifice himself, his essence and soul and through that sacrifice reopen the gate of Kurald Galain in Black Coral and get the attention of Mother Dark who had turned her back to the Andii for all of these years. This was probably the most important event to happen in the books till that point. The conversation you are thinking about was probably the one between Draconus and Hood.
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#18 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 10:46 AM

As we can learn from MoI and TtH, among others, Darkness and Chaos are two opposing forces and have been 'warring' for ages. Draconus told Ganoes Paran in MoI that he thought he could protect the Gate of Darkness (which is the essence of Kurald Galain, the hold of Darkness) from Chaos by sealing it within its own warren (Dragnipur). This would also lure Chaos in an endless pursuit of the Gate, meaning it could not wreck havok anywhere else. So the sword was both a protection of the Gate and a trap for Chaos, deviced by Draconus.

However, in order to keep the Gate away from the forces of Chaos, the warren needed continuous input of power, i.e. strong beings to lend their aid to the evasion of Chaos. Also, each of these strong beings claimed by Dragnipur would consequently not be able to be claimed by Chaos, so it worked two ways.

(Draconus in MoI: "Darkness has ever warred against Chaos, mortal. Ever retreated. And each time that Mother Dark relented to the Coming of Light, to the Birth of Shadow her power has diminished, the imbalance growing more profound. Such was the state of the realms around me in those early times. A growing imbalance. Until Chaos approached the very Gate to Kurald Galain itself. A defence needed to be fashioned. Souls were . . . required...Chaos hungers for the power in those souls for what Dragnipur has claimed. To feed on such power will make it stronger tenfold. A hundredfold. Sufficient to breach the Gate.")

Rake figured out that this endless fight/flight was doomed to failure and that the price of Dragnipur's continued existence was too high, so he sought an alternative: to restore the Gate of Darkness to the Tiste Andii and reconcile with Mother Dark. In order to achieve this he made a deal with Hood and some others. Hood would enter Dragnipur as God of Death, meaning that he could take the armies of the dead with him in a fight to halt Chaos (temporarily) and deal it a hefty blow. This both weakens Chaos and gives Rake time to enter Dragnipur himself, where he sacrifices himself (Anomander Rake, still standing, head tilted back, arms raised, began to dissolve, shred away, as the Gate took hold of him, as it fed upon him, upon the Son of Darkness. [...] The man that had been Anomander Rake was scattered into the realm of Kurald Galain, on to its own long-sealed path that might - just might - lead to the very feet of Mother Dark) to the Gate in order to return it and Mother Dark to Black Coral.
She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#19 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 10:48 AM

View PostAndorion, on 03 December 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

The conversation you are thinking about was probably the one between Draconus and Hood.


Rake did go into Dragnipur. He was at the Gate, on top of the wagon, where he sacrificed himself. He did not talk to Draconus, but Draconus did witness his sacrifice. Draconus did indeed talk to Hood when Hood entered Dragnipur.

[edit]That probably should have fitted better in response to Abyss's post.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 03 December 2014 - 10:49 AM

She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#20 User is offline   Takko 

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 10:59 AM

Thanks for putting that together for me. MOI is 1.5 years back for me.
Very good information indeed :-)
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