[worry]

So's your digestive track.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Wossname with the 8 races he never explained and the hackneyed plot? Puh-lease motherfucker, that was rubbish...

If you're complaining about Abraham because he doesn't explain every detail of his world in the first book, then I'm not sure how you managed to get through MBotF. I've read all 4 books in Abraham's series so far, and he reveals much more information about the races and the rest of the world. He just does it in trickles throughout the books.

Sure, the plot - which does become more complex - is not mindblowing, and there are some things I'm not a huge fan of. However, the primary reason I've stuck with the series is Abraham's excellent characterization, which makes up for the plot flaws.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 28 September 2014 - 07:17 PM

[Malaclypse]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 28 September 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Malaclypse, on 27 September 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

Wossname with the 8 races he never explained and the hackneyed plot? Puh-lease motherfucker, that was rubbish...

If you're complaining about Abraham because he doesn't explain every detail of his world in the first book, then I'm not sure how you managed to get through MBotF. I've read all 4 books in Abraham's series so far, and he reveals much more information about the races and the rest of the world. He just does it in trickles throughout the books.

Sure, the plot - which does become more complex - is not mindblowing, and there are some things I'm not a huge fan of. However, the primary reason I've stuck with the series is Abraham's excellent characterization, which makes up for the plot flaws.

No, that's noy why I don't like it - for me it's just very poor all-around. The characters are flat and uninteresting. The plot is predictable and boring. The setting (which ought to be interesting with all these exotic races) is drab.

But hey, that's just my opinion

[Coco with marshmallows]

Malaclypse, on 29 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

But hey, that's just my opinion

And opinions are like farts.

Everyone else's stinks.

[Abyss]

Coco with marshmallows, on 29 September 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Malaclypse, on 29 September 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

But hey, that's just my opinion

And opinions are like farts.

Everyone else's stinks.

[HoosierDaddy]

I want to punch "grim dark" in the face so that it's black and blue dark. Hate that term.

[Abyss]

HoosierDaddy, on 30 September 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

I want to punch "grim dark" in the face so that it's black and blue dark. Hate that term.

It's the term the subgenre deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

[Tiste Simeon]

"Grimdark" sounds like some weird fad that teenagers go through to appear more "edgy" or "alternative" than their classmates. Kind of like emos or something.

"Man I'm so Grimdark. I spent 3 hours looking at the moon and listening to My Chemical Romance on repeat..."

[HiddenOne]

I think they call that "Goth", Tiste

[Coco with marshmallows]

But in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.


Unless of course you're CIAPHAS CAIN, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM - then there's punnery too.

[Tiste Simeon]

HiddenOne, on 01 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I think they call that "Goth", Tiste

Yeah I know what Goth is. In my head, Grimdark kids are even whinier.

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 02 October 2014 - 09:51 AM

[HiddenOne]

Tiste Simeon, on 02 October 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

HiddenOne, on 01 October 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I think they call that "Goth", Tiste

Yeah I know what Goth is. In my head, Grimdark kids are even whinier.

I didn't think that was possible.

[Malaclypse]

HoosierDaddy, on 27 September 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Have fun with that. Caine.... is hardcore!

I am thoroughly enjoying Heroes Die, reminds me strongly of the Takeshi Kovacs books which is good because I loved those

[acesn8s]

Tiste Simeon, on 30 September 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

"Grimdark" sounds like some weird fad that teenagers go through to appear more "edgy" or "alternative" than their classmates. Kind of like emos or something.

"Man I'm so Grimdark. I spent 3 hours looking at the moon and listening to My Chemical Romance on repeat..."

I always thought it should be a character on one of the Adult Swim shows.

[QuickTidal]

I love the fact that "Grimdark", a term coined (stolen from Warcraft?) by asshole bloggers whose seeming sole purpose in life was to not only tear down that which they don't like personally, but to try to get an internet movement going to make it a slanderous term [something this world needed no more of to be honest]...and Richard Morgan, Joe Abercrombie, Mark Lawrence, and the rest of those "accused" of grimdark came along and stole the term and made it their own turned it on its head and now it's not a slander at all and just denotes a sub-sub-genre of fantasy or sci-fi. That's GREAT! I used to hate the term, but now it stands as a big banner "Fuck you" to those bloggers from the bastions of the authors who were maligned for such writing. It's literally one of my favourite things that has occurred on the internet.

[Coco with marshmallows]

40k not warcraft.

But by and large I agree with you.

[Malaclypse]

whatever guys, don't be such curmudgeons - grimdark, it's not terrible. It acts as a marker to indicate essentially adult fantasy, in which bad things happen to good people and probably nobody's even going to notice it, let alone do anything about it. If I were paying attention to such things, I would find it a useful marker.

[Abyss]

Malaclypse, on 02 October 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

whatever guys, don't be such curmudgeons - grimdark, it's not terrible. It acts as a marker to indicate essentially adult fantasy, in which bad things happen to good people and probably nobody's even going to notice it, let alone do anything about it. If I were paying attention to such things, I would find it a useful marker.

Agreed.


It's about as meaningful as 'Epic'.

[polishgenius]

Malaclypse, on 02 October 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

whatever guys, don't be such curmudgeons - grimdark, it's not terrible. It acts as a marker to indicate essentially adult fantasy, in which bad things happen to good people and probably nobody's even going to notice it, let alone do anything about it. If I were paying attention to such things, I would find it a useful marker.

My problem with 'grimdark' is not the meaning of the word, but the word itself. Stupid stupid looking phrase. It's perhaps even worse than the longstanding tendency to name new subgenres whateverpunk no matter how little sense it makes (steampunk particularly galls me, because in my experienced it's quite a mannered, organised sort of genre that's about as far from 'punk' as it's possible to be).

The subgenre and definition thereof is fine, albeit I've found there's a growing trend for the assumption of inherent superiority for a work just because it's grimdark, based on the premise that Bakker, Abercrombie et al found success not because they're bloody good but purely because they weren't pure happy.

[QuickTidal]

I would read a Whateverpunk book. It sounds nutters.