[theocean]

When did Kazz disappear. In GOTM first time through had no idea the CG were helping the Tiste and Brood... I always thought Kaaz had been gone for a long time in ROTCG before.

[D'rek]

K'azz disappeared during the Malazan Empire's assault on the Crimson Guard forts in Stratem, which happened during Kellanved's rule sometime after the unification of Quon Tali. Shortly after K'azz disappeared, the Guard split (the Diaspora) with each Company going a different way. The 3rd Company eventually ended up on Genebackis and took a contract with Caladan Brood's forces. While there is a reference to K'azz being with the Guard on Genebackis, this is actually a ruse - Shimmer had someone else pretending to be K'azz for some reason (someone {Brood or Kallor I think?} references this in one of the later books... TtH perhaps?).


So, roughly in chronological order up to K'azz taking control again of the Guard at the end of RotCG:

--the Crimson Guard starts opposing the Malazan Empire's conquests on Quon Tali
--many battles fought between the Malazans and Guard
--the Vow is sworn
--The Citadel falls, the Guard retreats to Stratem
--Malazan forces begin attacking Stratem
--Skinner and Cowl usurp K'azz, burying him at the Dolmens of Tian
--The Diaspora begins - the Crimson Guard companies flee Stratem in different directions
-----the 1st Company (Skinner) goes to Jacuruku, Skinner swears fealty to Ardata
-----the 2nd Company (Shimmer) eventually goes to Genebackis, takes a contract with Brood, then goes to Kurzan and takes a contract against The Spur
-----the 3rd Company (Tarkhan) eventually winds up on Umryg and are mostly wiped out except for a dozen or so Avowed
-----the 4th Company (Cal-Brinn) eventually goes to Assail and bad stuff happens to them

--the Diaspora ends - the 1st, 2nd and what's left of the 3rd Companies regroup in Stratem
--Traveller, Ereko, Kyle and the Lost Brothers dig up K'azz, who initially appears to be very very dead but he eventually gets up and joins them as "Jan"
--the united Crimson Guard travels to Li Heng (with a small force attacking Unta along the way) and battles the Malazan Army
--K'azz appears near Li Heng via warren. A schism occurs between those loyal to K'azz and Skinner's faction. Hostilities with the Malazans ceases and K'azz casts out Skinner's group of Avowed. The Guard retreats via warren back to Stratem.
--The Guard, lead by K'azz take over a big part of Stratem, militarily and politically

[theocean]

I just never noticed them in my first read through and then to have him mentioned through me off a little. Shimmer that sneaky bitch. Thank you for the history lesson on the Crimson Guard. I sorely needed it. Any idea how many avowed are with Brood and his forces by chance?

[D'rek]

theocean, on 08 September 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

I just never noticed them in my first read through and then to have him mentioned through me off a little. Shimmer that sneaky bitch. Thank you for the history lesson on the Crimson Guard. I sorely needed it. Any idea how many avowed are with Brood and his forces by chance?

Hmmm. Hard to say. We only learn the name of about 30-40 soldiers under Shimmer's command, and about 20 of them are Avowed, but it makes sense that out of the thousands of Guard in the Second Company the ones we'd most likely hear about are the Avowed.

In RotCG, Stoop says "Some six hundred swords were raised that evening under a clear sky, and six hundred voices spoke as one. We vowed eternal loyalty and servitude to our Duke so long as he should live and the Empire stand."

Since he is talking about returning the Prince to his lands, this sounds like it is after the fall of the Citadel so he's either talking about the Vow itself, or a time close to it. In that case, there were about six hundred Avowed total. Split that four ways you get 150 Avowed per Company. Presumably many would have fallen during the Quon Tali and Stratem wars, but I think it's a fair guess that Shimmer would have had somewhere in the range of 40-100 Avowed under her command during the contract with Brood.

[nacht]

I am in awe :-) of D'rek.
Just curious, Did you research this or did it actually flow out of your memory.

[theocean]

nacht, on 08 September 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

I am in awe :-) of D'rek.
Just curious, Did you research this or did it actually flow out of your memory.

Agreed, the knowledge that a couple people on this site have about the series is crazy. Id need 5-6 rereads to come away with the same knowledge these cats throw around.

[D'rek]

nacht, on 08 September 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

I am in awe :-) of D'rek.
Just curious, Did you research this or did it actually flow out of your memory.

Memory for the timeline, but had to look up the numbers of Avowed. Also, I originally got my Company numbering wrong (had Shimmer as 3rd, Cal-Brinn as 2nd, Tarkhan as 4th) but fixed it with edits after I realized

[theocean]

This may be tough to remember but i just read it, do you know what Brood did with or if he ever got the Sixth blade that he wanted of the CG for some specific mission. When he was talking to Crone the first time he was discussing that with crone, and im not sure what he was hinting at trying.

[champ]

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

This may be tough to remember but i just read it, do you know what Brood did with or if he ever got the Sixth blade that he wanted of the CG for some specific mission. When he was talking to Crone the first time he was discussing that with crone, and im not sure what he was hinting at trying.

Is that the mission to protect Crokus? Been ages since I read the books.

[theocean]

champ, on 09 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

This may be tough to remember but i just read it, do you know what Brood did with or if he ever got the Sixth blade that he wanted of the CG for some specific mission. When he was talking to Crone the first time he was discussing that with crone, and im not sure what he was hinting at trying.

Is that the mission to protect Crokus? Been ages since I read the books.

I think it was the first time Brood learned that a youth in Daru had the coin. It would be pretty quick to assign a blade to defend him, i thought he had something else in mind, but it could have been that.

[D'rek]

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

champ, on 09 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

This may be tough to remember but i just read it, do you know what Brood did with or if he ever got the Sixth blade that he wanted of the CG for some specific mission. When he was talking to Crone the first time he was discussing that with crone, and im not sure what he was hinting at trying.

Is that the mission to protect Crokus? Been ages since I read the books.

I think it was the first time Brood learned that a youth in Daru had the coin. It would be pretty quick to assign a blade to defend him, i thought he had something else in mind, but it could have been that.

Yup, it was to protect the Coinbearer. When Fingers reveals himself to Crokus later, he identifies himself as being part of the Sixth Blade.

[theocean]

D, on 09 September 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

champ, on 09 September 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

theocean, on 09 September 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

This may be tough to remember but i just read it, do you know what Brood did with or if he ever got the Sixth blade that he wanted of the CG for some specific mission. When he was talking to Crone the first time he was discussing that with crone, and im not sure what he was hinting at trying.

Is that the mission to protect Crokus? Been ages since I read the books.

I think it was the first time Brood learned that a youth in Daru had the coin. It would be pretty quick to assign a blade to defend him, i thought he had something else in mind, but it could have been that.

Yup, it was to protect the Coinbearer. When Fingers reveals himself to Crokus later, he identifies himself as being part of the Sixth Blade.

I missed so much on the first read. I am liking this re-read thing way more than i thought i would. I kept putting it off and off and now i regret not doing it earlier. Its amazing how much i missed.