[Andorion]

So I finished Heroes Die, and since I am going to be be reading the rest of the Caine books in a row, I thought about starting a thread to share my thoughts. I know there are a couple of other similar threads, but I didn't want to wade through spoilers.
1. The World: I actually loved the basic worldbuilding premise Stover uses , even though I generally don't like stories where the protagonist leaves 'our' world at the beginning of the book and is tranported to the fantasy world. But Stover's premise meant occasional switchovers which gave him the opportunity to create pretty detailed worlds The tradtional fantasy Overworld vs class-divided Earth made for a nice contrast.

2. Caine: Caine surprised me. I was expecting a wisecracking, dark, violent, fighting hero - kind of like Ringil in Richard Morgans books. But with Caine that is the acting facade. By now the idea of the conflicted, imperfect hero even the anti-hero has been done over a bit, but Caine is also more than that. What Stover does well is balance and control the spillover between Hari Michaelson and Caine, especially towards the end. Caine as a fighter.... is alarming. He reminds me a lot of Kalam in MBotF. He can fucking shred with those knives.

3. Ma'elKoth: I really liked this character. As in really liked him. As in I found myself rooting for him in some portions. His ideas were... logical...he presents a far more coherent case for a despotic God-Emperor than any I have read in some time.

Now I do have some questions though.

1. How is the 'feed' maintained between Overworld and Earth? occasional transportation is one thing but an info-feed means some kind of continuous portal.

2. I understand how really well trained Actors can go and play warriors and have adventures, but what about magic? How does Shanna become Pallas Ril the Mage? Is it an ability she acquires as soon as she enters Overworld, is it random, basically where does this ability come from?

3. If Earth has mastered interdimensional travel, why are we seeing it used for an extended fantasy roleplay game and not interdimensiona colonisation and economic exploitation?

4. When Caine killed Lamorak and Ma'elkoth began talking as him is it because Ma'elkoth was performing the thought and memory absorbtion spell?

Lastly I have a couple of problems with the book.

1. Berne: This guy is the archetypal villain. i mean he is too villainy. He is this homicidal maniac who can only think of either killing or raping people. I mean that's it, the extent of his thoughts, ambitions everything. Plus he has superpowers, so he can go around indulging himself. Somehow the character felt a bit one-dimensional to me.

2. How exactly does Pallas Ril get such a huge power boost? In the beginning she is a talented mage, but with definite limits. Then suddenly she is creating supershields, communing with Gods, throwing rivers about, it just seems a bit of a jump.

Well thats it for know. Just finished the book, so I probably missed something, but looking forward to the responses.

[amphibian]

95% of what you've just written is RAFO (Read Ahead and Find Out).

That means you're asking the right questions and Stover will answer them to some degree.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 24 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

[Aptorian]

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

1. How is the 'feed' maintained between Overworld and Earth? occasional transportation is one thing but an info-feed means some kind of continuous portal.

I don't actually recall this being explained in detail. Maybe somebody else remembers. A wild guess would be quantum entanglement means that they are able to transfer information instantaneously.

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

2. I understand how really well trained Actors can go and play warriors and have adventures, but what about magic? How does Shanna become Pallas Ril the Mage? Is it an ability she acquires as soon as she enters Overworld, is it random, basically where does this ability come from?

This is a RAFO sort of question but the short answer is that the Studio has facilities off world... or was it on Earth with a fantasy world reality field thingy?... where the actors are trained from a young age. They are tested in various disciplines, some are adapt at magic.

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

3. If Earth has mastered interdimensional travel, why are we seeing it used for an extended fantasy roleplay game and not interdimensiona colonisation and economic exploitation?

One of the bigger problems I had with the series as well.

The main answer is that few alternative dimensions are as close to Earth or have a stable connection. Consider the fact that gods are real in this world and attempting to do a "Christopher Columbus" would be a very bad idea for Mankind.

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

4. When Caine killed Lamorak and Ma'elkoth began talking as him is it because Ma'elkoth was performing the thought and memory absorbtion spell?

Yes.

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

1. Berne: This guy is the archetypal villain. i mean he is too villainy. He is this homicidal maniac who can only think of either killing or raping people. I mean that's it, the extent of his thoughts, ambitions everything. Plus he has superpowers, so he can go around indulging himself. Somehow the character felt a bit one-dimensional to me.

I liked him as a minion. The unsubtle iron fist to the clever Maelcoth.

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

2. How exactly does Pallas Ril get such a huge power boost? In the beginning she is a talented mage, but with definite limits. Then suddenly she is creating supershields, communing with Gods, throwing rivers about, it just seems a bit of a jump.

Think of it as a paradigm shift. All Pallas knew was what she had. Then she encountered a new alien power. Engaging with that power changed how she percieves the universe, power, gods, everything. Think of it like she's on a never ending LSD trip, she is one with everything and everything is one with her. If she maintains that connection she is basically limitless.

[End of Disc One]

To me, Berne was the most entertaining character in the book. Ma'elKoth actually dropped a little bit in my opinion as the book went on. Caine seemed more clever than him towards the end.

I have another question that I forgot to ask in the other thread. That ritual of rebirth...they just cut away before Caine went through, so we don't really know what happened. I assume this gets delved into later on?

This post has been edited by End of Disc One: 24 July 2014 - 06:42 PM

[champ]

A Matthew fucking Stover thread with no fuck, what the fuck fuckity fuck is wrong with you all?!?!? Fuck...

Nothing like adding a bit of maturity to proceedings... enoy the fucking books!

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Andorion, on 24 July 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

Lastly I have a couple of problems with the book.

1. Berne: This guy is the archetypal villain. i mean he is too villainy. He is this homicidal maniac who can only think of either killing or raping people. I mean that's it, the extent of his thoughts, ambitions everything. Plus he has superpowers, so he can go around indulging himself. Somehow the character felt a bit one-dimensional to me.

2. How exactly does Pallas Ril get such a huge power boost? In the beginning she is a talented mage, but with definite limits. Then suddenly she is creating supershields, communing with Gods, throwing rivers about, it just seems a bit of a jump.

Well thats it for know. Just finished the book, so I probably missed something, but looking forward to the responses.

I agree with the comments on Berne.

I haven't read this for a while, but if I remember correctly my biggest problem was the way the "who betrayed Pallas Ril" question was set up and dealt with. But then again, I wasn't a fan of the book, so it is what it is.

[Hammerhead88]

Anyone know where I can buy these books? (UK). The cheapest version of book 2 I can find it £120!!

[Aptorian]

Amazon?

EDIT: I apologize. FUCKING Amazon.

This post has been edited by Apt: 07 March 2017 - 01:41 PM

[champ]

Hammerhead88, on 07 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Anyone know where I can buy these books? (UK). The cheapest version of book 2 I can find it £120!!

Download is the only way you'll get it in the UK. Fuck...

This post has been edited by champ: 07 March 2017 - 02:32 PM

[Abyss]

Hammerhead88, on 07 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Anyone know where I can buy these books? (UK). The cheapest version of book 2 I can find it £120!!

Kindle ebook is $5.99US or Cdn.


Cheapest i've seen otherwise is a used mmpb around $25.

I was under the impression the publisher was going to reissue it when BLACK KNIFE and LAW were published, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem to have happened.






Fuckers.

[Vengeance]

You have to fucking get it on the fucking kindle. But it is fucking amazing so just fucking do!

[Abyss]

Venge makes a good fucking point.

[Macros]

I had to get the whole fucking lot on digital

[Abyss]

Better than not getting to fucking read it in the first place. Because that would be fucking fucked.

[Macros]

eh.

we've been fucking over this abyss.

books one and two were fucking fun. yes
three was fucking alirght
four can go suck a bag of dicks

[Abyss]

Macros, on 07 March 2017 - 10:20 PM, said:

eh.

we've been fucking over this abyss.

books one and two were fucking fun. yes
three was fucking alirght
four can go suck a bag of dicks

You're just saying that because your brain couldn't handle the brainfuck that was four.

[Macros]

No my brain got so fucking bored with the navel gazing it tried to fucking kill itself

[Salt-Man Z]

I think it succeeded!

[Abyss]

Macros, on 08 March 2017 - 09:20 AM, said:

No my brain got so fucking bored with the navel gazing it tried to fucking kill itself

Guess we'll just have to agree that your fucking brain succeeded to disagree.

[champ]

Salt-Man Z, on 08 March 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

I think it FUCKING succeeded!

FTFY... Fuck...