[QuickTidal]

I'm currently reading Mary Stewart's Merlin books, and it prompted me to think of two very similar films (that came out three years apart). And I thought, let's chat about movies that cover similar topics, and may have even come out within months of each other, and which is better. There are lots of these to discuss, so I'll start us off with the two that prompted me to make the thread.

SPOILERS (obviously)

KING ARTHUR (2004) - Starring Clive Owen, Ioan Gruffudd, Keira Knightley

Basically the idea that Arthur was actually a Roman general named Artorius Castus and his band of men who have served Rome faithfully, and as the withdrawal occurs they expect to be formally dismissed by the Roman leaders and allowed to live out their lives in peace, but Pictish raiders from north of Hadrian's Wall threaten southern Britain with invasion, and Rome has one last task for its beleagured northern band, to rescue an asshole Roman nobleman who is caught in his Villa north of the wall.

THE LAST LEGION (2007) - Colin Firth, Thomas Sangster, Ashwarya Rai, Ben Kingsley

A Roman commander named Aurelianus Caius Antonius helps the last legitimate emperor of Western Rome, Romulus Augustus, out of Rome as it falls to the Goths by convincing the Goth leader Odoacer to send the boy to exile instead of killing him. Joined by Romulus tutor, a native Britain named Ambrosianus who has been searching for Julius Caesar's famous sword they discover it within the old Villa they are being held inside. Romulus and Ambrosianus are rescued from captivity by Aurelianus and an Indian Keralite warrior named Mira (who is proficient in Kalaripayattu) and eventually make it to Britain and hope to be safe amogst the loyal members of the fabled Ninth Legion at Hadrian's Wall, where they must defend against new foe, the Saxon invader Vortigern.



Okay, so I saw both of these in theatres. Both are decent retellings of the Arthurian legend, infusing the fall of Rome, but each have their good points and bad and neither is spectacular.

KING ARTHUR has Clive Owen...and he's always awesome...but I simply don't buy him as Arthur. Keira Knightley as a Pictish Guinevere I bought, and Ioan Gruffudd is an EXCELLENT Lancelot. Though Madds Mikklesen steals this movie out from under everyone else as badass Tristan who is not only a swordmaster, but an expert falconer. The story is very serviceable with the fight north to rescue the Roman nobleman happening with enough action and intrigue to please, and after they get their Arthur's men discovering just how bad Rome was when it came to Slavery and that sort of thing...all good. It KIND of falls apart though once they switch gears and make the story be about Arthur's men wanting freedom and the Bishop from Rome not willing to grant it so they fight him...eh. It's okay. But the promise of the early half of the film is not carried through.

LAST LEGION is actually better in the latter half than it is in the first half. The whole opening with Rome, the Goths, The captivity on Capri, and the finding of Caesar's sword (Excalibur obviously) is all just kind of plodding, and things don't actually get good til the latter half in Britain and the fight with Vortigern and establishment of the Last Legion as the beginnings of the court that will eventually lead to Arthur. That's the other thing I like...you spend MOST of the movie thinking that Thomas Sangster's Romulus character will actually BE King Arthur, considering Ambrosianus (Merlin) is already old when he's like 12..and they do find and use the sword...only to pull that rug out from under you later on when Sangster throws the sword and it impacts itself into some rocks (no matter how ridiculous this would be in reality, it looked very cool) and time passes before you realize that Snagster was actually playing a young Uther Pendragon.

Anyways. I can't tell you which film I prefer. I think KA wins for overall action, but the story in LL is actually better overall (it was based on a book after all). KA is a bit more historically sound and LL a little more anachronistic...but yeah.

Also, Rai's Mira character is just so badass in LL that I can't help but love that.

Anyone want to comment on these flicks?

If not throw down two more flicks that are similar to battle (suggestion: THE MESSENGER and JOAN OF ARC)

[D'iversify]

Vortigern a Saxon - ha! Let me guess, Hengist and Horsa were loyal defenders of Celtic Britain.

The Eagle could probably be added to make this a Mexican stand-off.

The 'Battle of the Similar Movies' is pretty much a description of the early years of the Dreamworks vs. Disney/Pixar hodown that began with Antz vs. A Bug's Life - Disney deliberately tried to take out a competitor by putting a thematically similar movie against Dreanworks computer animated summer blockbuster.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 20 June 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Vortigern a Saxon - ha! Let me guess, Hengist and Horsa were loyal defenders of Celtic Britain.

The Eagle could probably be added to make this a Mexican stand-off.

The 'Battle of the Similar Movies' is pretty much a description of the early years of the Dreamworks vs. Disney/Pixar hodown that began with Antz vs. A Bug's Life - Disney deliberately tried to take out a competitor by putting a thematically similar movie against Dreanworks computer animated summer blockbuster.

I think they may have been. Totally anachronistic, as these films usually are.

Ooooh, yeah I hadn't thought of THE EAGLE!

Indeed about the Pixar Dreamworks fights.

There was also ARMAGEDDON vs DEEP IMPACT, KUNDUN vs SEVEN YEARS IN TIBET, THE MESSENGER vs JOAN OF ARC (TV) vs Kathryn Bigelow's long gestating/never actually made Joan Of Arc movie, WHITE HOUSE DOWN vs OLYMPUS HAS FALLEN, DANTE's PEAK vs VOLCANO, MISSION TO MARS vs RED PLANET, THE PRESTIGE vs THE ILLUSIONIST, SNOW WHITE & THE HUNTSMAN vs MIRROR MIRROR.

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

I haven't seen either of those, but there was just an article about this a few days ago that may provide fodder for this thread...

26 Movies That Came Out at the Same Time and Are Basically the Same Movie

And I preferred the Leelee Sobieski version of Joan of Arc. (Sorry, Milla.) And Deep Imact over Armageddon. Maybe I just like Leelee Sobieski...

[QuickTidal]

Kruppe, on 20 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

And I preferred the Leelee Sobieski version of Joan of Arc.

I agree. And it's sad because of how much I had been looking forward to THE MESSENGER. The Leelee version was much more grounded I think. THE MESSENGER has Luc Besson toying with visuals WAY too much to be good, and he only has Milla in it because he'd been dating/married to her at the time...and it showed. Leelee is a better actor than Milla anyways. So that was a case of huge production/budget on the one and TV budget on the other and the cheaper of the two is better.

[Imperial Historian]

Last legion really bugged me, it had a great cast, some really good scenes and a decent script. And yet it was really bad! The fight scene choreography was particularly bad, but I remember on a number of occasions thinking this is really bad editing/directing with dubious camera angles and really abrupt cuts. I think its one of the few films I've seen that I thought was ruined by the directing (which isn't something I usually notice).

Hollywood does have a tendancy to green light similar films at the same time, like Olympus is fallen and white house down, which pretty much have the same plot with slightly different baddies. In that vein I'd place white house down as a future action movie classic, with Channing Tatum throwing his hat into the Arnie replacement ring of tongue in cheek action hero, whilst Olympus is fallen was to po faced for me.

[QuickTidal]

Imperial Historian, on 20 June 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Last legion really bugged me, it had a great cast, some really good scenes and a decent script. And yet it was really bad! The fight scene choreography was particularly bad, but I remember on a number of occasions thinking this is really bad editing/directing with dubious camera angles and really abrupt cuts. I think its one of the few films I've seen that I thought was ruined by the directing (which isn't something I usually notice).

From what I recall, the Italian author who wrote the book THE LAST LEGION is based on said there were some 4 more hours worth of footage shot for it, and the end result had been cut to ratshit to avoid length issues. Whether that came down to the director or the producers, I don't know...but it sounds as if that was at least a reason for the editing inconsistencies.

The difference being that KING ARTHUR was handled by Antoine Fuqua who is a dab hand at action and fast editing, so that trumps TLL in that regard in spades.

[nacht]

Kruppe, on 20 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

I haven't seen either of those, but there was just an article about this a few days ago that may provide fodder for this thread...

26 Movies That Came Out at the Same Time and Are Basically the Same Movie

And I preferred the Leelee Sobieski version of Joan of Arc. (Sorry, Milla.) And Deep Imact over Armageddon. Maybe I just like Leelee Sobieski...

I haven't seen most of these "pairs" so as to verify.

but this is BS

"The Illusionist vs. The Prestige (2006)"


They are very different movies and both are excellent (and two (nay three) really good actors)


and that casts some doubts about this list.

[QuickTidal]

I forgot about ED TV vs THE TRUMAN SHOW....though the latter is probably one of Jim Carrey's most staid and dramatic performances. Love that movie.

[Defiance]

Pacific Rim vs. Transformers franchise. Get over here, Apt!

[worry]

You're right though Kruppe. Leelee was in the excellent Eyes Wide Shut and was not in the very similar but quite inferior American Pie. Your theory holds up.

[Illuyankas]

Hmm, while Volcano's technician guy who heroically strode into lava to save someone's life was entirely selfless and awesome compared to Dante's Peak's grandma whose selfishness put her grandkids in danger and merely melted her legs off almost needlessly in attempting to unfuck the problem she created, the kids in Dante's Peak are approximately a million jillion times less awful than Tommy Lee Jones' daughter in Volcano. Also awkward racism parable versus thank you NASA, and really dumb shit versus realism (somewhat) and pacing.

Verdict: Dante's at the Peak > Volcan'to

[Jakovasaurus]

E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial vs. Earh to Echo

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

nacht, on 20 June 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

Kruppe, on 20 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

I haven't seen either of those, but there was just an article about this a few days ago that may provide fodder for this thread...

26 Movies That Came Out at the Same Time and Are Basically the Same Movie

And I preferred the Leelee Sobieski version of Joan of Arc. (Sorry, Milla.) And Deep Imact over Armageddon. Maybe I just like Leelee Sobieski...

I haven't seen most of these "pairs" so as to verify.

but this is BS

"The Illusionist vs. The Prestige (2006)"


They are very different movies and both are excellent (and two (nay three) really good actors)

and that casts some doubts about this list.

Because magic.


Mac and Me vs. The Godfather

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Leelee vs. Leeloo

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[QuickTidal]

MULTIPASS

[Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai]

Defiance, on 20 June 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Pacific Rim vs. Transformers franchise. Get over here, Apt!

I would have said that Battleship was closer to Transformers than Pacific Rim. Pacific Rim and the anime 'Evangelion' are much closer, in that giant monsters threaten the planet and huge ass mechs are needed for defence. But the animation of how the Battleships moved was totally similar to the Transformers. Whereas the Pacific Rim mechs didn't really transform, they just hit stuff REALLY hard.

I realise that you were, i am 99% sure, being sarcastic to bait Apt, me and my mates watched Pacfic Rim a couple of months back and discussed it, so I felt the need to weigh in here lol. I really like all the films just as good old skool action films. I admit they aren't legendary stories worthy of a hundred Oscars, but dammit, action films are awesome. I don't need love stories, believable backgrounds or even good actresses. Just give me Megan Fox running in slow motion in a desert of explosions with HUGE mechs fighting or big ass monsters fighting claw and metal fist vs mechs, and paint me entertained!

Kind of rant over

[nacht]

Tarthenal Theloman Toblakai, on 23 June 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Defiance, on 20 June 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Pacific Rim vs. Transformers franchise. Get over here, Apt!

I would have said that Battleship was closer to Transformers than Pacific Rim. Pacific Rim and the anime 'Evangelion' are much closer, in that giant monsters threaten the planet and huge ass mechs are needed for defence. But the animation of how the Battleships moved was totally similar to the Transformers. Whereas the Pacific Rim mechs didn't really transform, they just hit stuff REALLY hard.

I realise that you were, i am 99% sure, being sarcastic to bait Apt, me and my mates watched Pacfic Rim a couple of months back and discussed it, so I felt the need to weigh in here lol. I really like all the films just as good old skool action films. I admit they aren't legendary stories worthy of a hundred Oscars, but dammit, action films are awesome. I don't need love stories, believable backgrounds or even good actresses. Just give me Megan Fox running in slow motion in a desert of explosions with HUGE mechs fighting or big ass monsters fighting claw and metal fist vs mechs, and paint me entertained!

Kind of rant over

Michael Bay loves you man :-)

[worry]

I saw a commercial for the new Hercules, it doesn't look half bad (or it only looks half bad? Don't wanna oversell it). Anyway The Rock has made the bold decision not to play Hercules as a drooling simpleton, so that's one way to distinguish it from Kellan Lutz.

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

Only slightly off-topic - I thought of a TV show example of this: Wonderfalls vs. Joan of Arcadia.

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Double Visionaries In this corner: ''Joan of Arcadia''. In that corner: ''Wonderfalls''

I enjoyed both, but preferred Wonderfalls. A preference not shared by the general public, as I think it lasted 3 episodes and then I had to buy the DVDs to see the rest.