[Kaschan]

Galayn Lord, on 28 May 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Kaschan, on 28 May 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Denul, on 28 May 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Eloth, on 28 May 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

Pallid, on 28 May 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

I'm knocking about, I'd love to know who the 7 users online are

I'd hazard a guess that this is why there are rules in place so we have to log in anonymously

It's so scum can lurk, it benefits them that no lynch is happening.

This seems to be a very weird statement. Scum want lynches as much as if not more then town do. Especially if they are not the ones being lynched. How do you figure that a no lynch benefits scum?

I feel like you have been a helpful towny and making points but every so often you drop a line that is full of completely wrong reasoning and it starts to make me suspicious of you again.

Actually, THIS seems a very weird statement to me. Lynching is (or, perhaps rather, should be) a town power. As a result, town want lynches more. Scum have the kill ability, right, so they always have another way of knocking off players even if there is a no lynch, while town (as a whole, discounting finders and the like) only have that one method available to them as a group with which to eliminate suspects.

In addition, what is meant by, 'Especially if they are not the ones being lynched.' This seems a redundant statement, seemingly designed to strengthen the previous statement but actually just looks foolish - of course scum would not want lynches if they are the ones being lynched (indeed, the way it's worded, Kas seems to actually suggest that to some extent scum would still want a lynch even if they were the ones up on the scaffold!).

A no lynch can benefit scum in a way that it does not benefit town - by continuing to keep the list of suspects high for them to hide in. Not to mention (even though I'm about to), of course, that if they indeed are the ones on the chopping block, the no lynch would certainly benefit them.

In sum, Kaschan's post seems to attempt to heap pressure, but instead damages himself with its own dodgy reasoning.

I completely disagree with you here. I agree that as town the only way to accumulate hard information is by lynching. But you are nuts if you think that scum does not want lynches as badly as town does. Scum want the game to be over as fast as possible the longer a game goes the more chance that they will be found out (let something slip). We have seen two games in the last 4 where scum was willing and did lynch one of there own in order to win the game. It is a standard and worth while tactic. When have we ever seen a none lynch benefit scum other then when scum were the ones not being lynched. Scum and town want lynches. To think otherwise is retarded at best and foolish at worst.

In sum GL conclusions are with out logic or merit. Simply calculation shows that with lynches and nk's scum get to DDay faster. What scum don't want is what happened yesterday. No lynches and no nk's. That is what scum doesn't want.

[Denul]

Atrahal, look you are voted and you react but you have not done much without being voted. Understand esé? You make good points when you are here, BUT you are only here when you are voted or have come under scrutiny. You have not done much else. Therefore, vote the wolf and he appears srpings to mind.

My vote right now just emphasized that.

You have not even mentioned Nimander or Kaschan. Not give us your thoughts on the no lynch. Nope. So yeah, you can "act like town" when it suits you.

Look upthread, you're not even my main target, your Pallid's. I was adding weight to his words, so why don't you address his case.

[Kaschan]

Galayn Lord, on 28 May 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 28 May 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Eloth, on 28 May 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Pallid, on 28 May 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

well since we're basically on day 2 again, with a healer reveal thrown in.

I want to know why Barghast voted a claimed healer. I want to know why the lurkers wouldn't pull the trigger on a lynch

I want to know who our healer protected, and the reasoning behind the choice




eta forgot the word 'pull'

As for the reasoning of why ampelas instead of someone else for the next night, a few reasons;
1. A bunch of people are low posting nobodies, any NK on them would be baseless and even harmful to scum since a few of us are willing to lynch them ourselves.
2. Denul/GL not going to heal for I hope painfully obvious reasons
3. Nimander/Barghast/Kaschan haven't made an impression on me as being sensible town players.

Was close to healing pallid but Ampelas has been more of a calming/focussing force in the thread to date and we would feel his loss more IMO.

Healer reveals are always suspect. Killer reveals healer, withholds kill at some point, becomes VPI.
Also, what has a killer to lose by switching to the healer unless he can self-heal?

Kaschan, on 28 May 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 28 May 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

Eloth, on 28 May 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

Pallid, on 28 May 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

well since we're basically on day 2 again, with a healer reveal thrown in.

I want to know why Barghast voted a claimed healer. I want to know why the lurkers wouldn't pull the trigger on a lynch

I want to know who our healer protected, and the reasoning behind the choice




eta forgot the word 'pull'

As for the reasoning of why ampelas instead of someone else for the next night, a few reasons;
1. A bunch of people are low posting nobodies, any NK on them would be baseless and even harmful to scum since a few of us are willing to lynch them ourselves.
2. Denul/GL not going to heal for I hope painfully obvious reasons
3. Nimander/Barghast/Kaschan haven't made an impression on me as being sensible town players.

Was close to healing pallid but Ampelas has been more of a calming/focussing force in the thread to date and we would feel his loss more IMO.

Healer reveals are always suspect. Killer reveals healer, withholds kill at some point, becomes VPI.
Also, what has a killer to lose by switching to the healer unless he can self-heal?

That is the problem with a healer reveal. With a finder reveal it can be tested and verified. If they find scum they live if town lynches a town then the finder gets lynched the next day. But a healer if there is no finder in the game and they reveal then town is going to have to lynch them at some point just to make sure that they aren't a killer or a symp. It sucks but that is the smart play.

Atrahal and Kaschan here both suggesting we move forward with an Eloth lynch. If we think of one/both of them as killers, then it looks like not wanting to risk missing out on another NK thanks to the healer picking the correct target. Self-heal is mentioned again, killers afraid that targetting Eloth directly might backfire?

I did not mention the self heal. I like that you attempt to include me in something that I didn't say at all. True you will say that you just quoted the quotes but you also implied that I was worried about a healer self healing. Which could not be further from the truth. My worry is not a healer self healing but rather a killer revealing as a healer and the town believing them and letting them live until d day and losing yet another town game. My reasoning is sound. You seem to buy Eloth's reveal lock stock and barrel well good for you. I do not. I am suspicious of it because I was suspicious of him previously. Then there is the fact that he revealed with an hour left in the day and we were unable to get a lynch. There are a lot of coincidences piling up.

[Atrahal]

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Atrahal, look you are voted and you react but you have not done much without being voted. Understand esé? You make good points when you are here, BUT you are only here when you are voted or have come under scrutiny. You have not done much else. Therefore, vote the wolf and he appears srpings to mind.

My vote right now just emphasized that.

You have not even mentioned Nimander or Kaschan. Not give us your thoughts on the no lynch. Nope. So yeah, you can "act like town" when it suits you.

Look upthread, you're not even my main target, your Pallid's. I was adding weight to his words, so why don't you address his case.

His play is consistent. Your's anything but.
As for being here when I am here.... that's when I am.
Thing is, bullshit statements like this 'he only defends himself' is when I come up as town, no-one will bother a re-read.
Truth is, for two days I have been calling Pallid on a gut-feeling, you on your ridiculous headless chicken play and now I've added Eloth to the list because that reveal stinks in too many ways.
The first is ignored and I seem alone, the second is acknowledged but everyone's ignoring you, anyway (since everyone also thinks you're a townie ans therefore necessary evil) and the third makes me seem scummy to others right now.

[Kaschan]

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Moocher.gif


PS what is the TDMi of this game. I am assuming 2.

Quote

TMDI:2 = As 1, but a small number of simple roles. Eg: 12 players, 2 Killers, Symp, Healer, BP/Vig.

We have 13 players playing this game.

Path-Shaper, on 21 May 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

13 players are alive: Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Pallid, Sukul Ankhadu

I do not see town having a Healer, Vig and a BP. Not in such a small game. I want to know other people's thoughts on this.

The reason behind it is I think one of them is lying.

I agree I think that is a bit over powered for town. We know that the vig wasn't lying but I agree either Eloth or GL is lying. I don't know which one. Eloth was the one under pressure when he revealed so it could have been a panicy reveal as scum to stay alive. GL just dropped his with out any pressure. But the question then become why did he drop his. He could have just kept his mouth shut and let scum think that Eloth lied when he said that he healed Amp and instead healed GL. That would have kept scum more confused and been a better town play. Of the two I am a little more inclined to believe GL but that is mainly because he revealed without being at l-1.

[Atrahal]

Anyway, gotta go. Ciao all.

[Kaschan]

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

Btw, straight up, how you feel about the game as a whole right now.

I am a little off on the game.

[Ampelas]

It's not ENTIRELY improbable that all those roles exist in this game. Vig of any type tends to kill town more often than not, and I'm guessing the BP and Heal both would not save anyone since it was a day vig. Guard and Finder are generally the more powerful town roles anyways, and if THOSE exist as well, then yeah, someone is lying. (I am NOT suggesting anyone else reveal)

At this point, I feel it is in our interest to figure out what lynch brings us the most information.

We have a Barghast non-lynch yesterday, and no NK. GL claims BP was hit, Eloth claims he healed me.

A Barghast lynch today:

If scum, that makes Nimander a top suspect, and also gives us two trains to compare. Also people ignoring a stalled lynch and pushing elsewhere become more suspicious. If innocent, it makes Nimander look a little better and doesn't really tell us much beyond speculating what scum might be on his train (yes, including me).

A Nimander lynch today:
If scum, makes Barghast look suspicious and PI's some people who have pushed for him when there was no other support. If inno, then it means I was wrong on my suspicions and I feel casts Denul in an interesting light considering he went after Nimander right away, rather than Barghast.

A Denul lynch today:

If scum, makes me look foolish and scummy for defending him. Tons of stuff on thread by him though, so there might be something to glean. If he's inno, doesn't really do much for us unless he's the symp.

An Eloth lynch today:

If scum, same as Denul - makes me look bad for defending him. If he's inno, at best he could be a symp, but I think it would point to certain people who pushed for what I feel is a bad lynch for today.

Personally, I am fine with returning to Mafia 101 and finishing a lynch that stalled. If Barghast is scum, and we let him go a second day, the screams from SH will echo for weeks. And he provides some info. I mean, if we really want to get into "OMG WIFOM DISTRACTIONS", then certainly Barghast would qualify as someone to vote for as well. Sure, why isn't Eloth dead? is a valid issue, but also, why wasn't Barghast lynched? Where'd Nimander go? Or was there someone else who was online, but just laid low?

[Denul]

Atrahal, on 29 May 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Atrahal, look you are voted and you react but you have not done much without being voted. Understand esé? You make good points when you are here, BUT you are only here when you are voted or have come under scrutiny. You have not done much else. Therefore, vote the wolf and he appears srpings to mind.

My vote right now just emphasized that.

You have not even mentioned Nimander or Kaschan. Not give us your thoughts on the no lynch. Nope. So yeah, you can "act like town" when it suits you.

Look upthread, you're not even my main target, your Pallid's. I was adding weight to his words, so why don't you address his case.

His play is consistent. Your's anything but.
As for being here when I am here.... that's when I am.
Thing is, bullshit statements like this 'he only defends himself' is when I come up as town, no-one will bother a re-read.
Truth is, for two days I have been calling Pallid on a gut-feeling, you on your ridiculous headless chicken play and now I've added Eloth to the list because that reveal stinks in too many ways.
The first is ignored and I seem alone, the second is acknowledged but everyone's ignoring you, anyway (since everyone also thinks you're a townie ans therefore necessary evil) and the third makes me seem scummy to others right now.

Well you come across as woe is me. I have a good theory or two about who is scum, I am going with one of them at the moment, the other I have kept back and not said at all on thread.

What do you make of the no lynch? What are your current reads away from the people I think are town?

[Ampelas]

Kaschan, on 29 May 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Moocher.gif


PS what is the TDMi of this game. I am assuming 2.

Quote

TMDI:2 = As 1, but a small number of simple roles. Eg: 12 players, 2 Killers, Symp, Healer, BP/Vig.

We have 13 players playing this game.

Path-Shaper, on 21 May 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

13 players are alive: Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Pallid, Sukul Ankhadu

I do not see town having a Healer, Vig and a BP. Not in such a small game. I want to know other people's thoughts on this.

The reason behind it is I think one of them is lying.

I agree I think that is a bit over powered for town. We know that the vig wasn't lying but I agree either Eloth or GL is lying. I don't know which one. Eloth was the one under pressure when he revealed so it could have been a panicy reveal as scum to stay alive. GL just dropped his with out any pressure. But the question then become why did he drop his. He could have just kept his mouth shut and let scum think that Eloth lied when he said that he healed Amp and instead healed GL. That would have kept scum more confused and been a better town play. Of the two I am a little more inclined to believe GL but that is mainly because he revealed without being at l-1.

Yeah, I don't really understand GL's reveal. If he's lying, what are his motivations if he's scum or town? If scum, it would seem like a symp play to sow confusion possibly. If he's town, it could just be he assumed Eloth had no reason to lie, so he was just giving town more information (since scum would already know that their kill on him failed). Yeah, bad play if he's town, but there it is.

[Galayn Lord]

Guys, what I know and can work from (though for obvious reasons you can't do the same without relying on blind faith), is that I was targetted last night, not Eloth. So:

1) Scum went for the person they thought would be least likely to be healed, and hope that Eloth is lynched the following day for not dying in the night.

2) Scum weren't around to change their NK to Eloth.

3) Eloth IS a killer and their reveal was false. They go after me possibly because I was one of the loudest in accusing them pre-reveal.


Way I see it, there is a two out of three chance that Eloth is not a killer. That's why I now focus elsewhere. Yes, it's not exactly stone cold proof or anything even close, but at the moment everyone is accusing absolutely everyone else, so just trying to cut it down some.

If I believe 1) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Denul, Barghast, Ampelas, Pallid.

If I believe 2) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Kaschan, Atrahal, Nimander

And if 3), then obviously it's Eloth as the choice.



At the moment I lean towards numero dos.

[Ampelas]

Ok, Atrahal has been in my blindspot for the most part, as you can see I haven't really talked about him at all. I'm not sure I understand why at least two people (pallid, denul) think he's the better lynch. I'm going to re-read the last couple of pages, but other than insisting on an Eloth vote I don't know what else to think about him.

[Ampelas]

Galayn Lord, on 29 May 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Guys, what I know and can work from (though for obvious reasons you can't do the same without relying on blind faith), is that I was targetted last night, not Eloth. So:

1) Scum went for the person they thought would be least likely to be healed, and hope that Eloth is lynched the following day for not dying in the night.

2) Scum weren't around to change their NK to Eloth.

3) Eloth IS a killer and their reveal was false. They go after me possibly because I was one of the loudest in accusing them pre-reveal.


Way I see it, there is a two out of three chance that Eloth is not a killer. That's why I now focus elsewhere. Yes, it's not exactly stone cold proof or anything even close, but at the moment everyone is accusing absolutely everyone else, so just trying to cut it down some.

If I believe 1) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Denul, Barghast, Ampelas, Pallid.

If I believe 2) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Kaschan, Atrahal, Nimander

And if 3), then obviously it's Eloth as the choice.



At the moment I lean towards numero dos.

For option one, wouldn't Atrahal also be on that list since he's pushing for an Eloth lynch now?

[Eloth]

Kaschan, on 29 May 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Denul, on 29 May 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Moocher.gif


PS what is the TDMi of this game. I am assuming 2.

Quote

TMDI:2 = As 1, but a small number of simple roles. Eg: 12 players, 2 Killers, Symp, Healer, BP/Vig.

We have 13 players playing this game.

Path-Shaper, on 21 May 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

13 players are alive: Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Liosan, Nimander Golit, Pallid, Sukul Ankhadu

I do not see town having a Healer, Vig and a BP. Not in such a small game. I want to know other people's thoughts on this.

The reason behind it is I think one of them is lying.

I agree I think that is a bit over powered for town. We know that the vig wasn't lying but I agree either Eloth or GL is lying. I don't know which one. Eloth was the one under pressure when he revealed so it could have been a panicy reveal as scum to stay alive. GL just dropped his with out any pressure. But the question then become why did he drop his. He could have just kept his mouth shut and let scum think that Eloth lied when he said that he healed Amp and instead healed GL. That would have kept scum more confused and been a better town play. Of the two I am a little more inclined to believe GL but that is mainly because he revealed without being at l-1.

Was at l-2! That changes *everything*

But in all seriousness; I expected to reveal, prevent my lynch, then get NKed last night. I threw my role out there just to delay D-day by one lynch. For whatever reason I'm alive today so scum messed up somewhere.

Unfortauntely because I'm healer I can't prove my loyalty to town without dying, and being lynched wastes one of the last few opportunities for town to take out scum, so I will fight to keep myself alive and make SCUM take me out and spend a NK on it.

[Path-Shaper]

It is now Day 3. There are 9 hours 13 minutes remaining.

9 players are alive: Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kaschan, Nimander Golit, Pallid

6 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote Eloth: Atrahal
1 vote Ampelas: Nimander Golit
2 votes Atrahal: Pallid, Denul

Not voted: Ampelas, Barghast, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kaschan, Nimander Golit

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 May 2014 - 02:12 PM

[Galayn Lord]

Ampelas, on 29 May 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 29 May 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Guys, what I know and can work from (though for obvious reasons you can't do the same without relying on blind faith), is that I was targetted last night, not Eloth. So:

1) Scum went for the person they thought would be least likely to be healed, and hope that Eloth is lynched the following day for not dying in the night.

2) Scum weren't around to change their NK to Eloth.

3) Eloth IS a killer and their reveal was false. They go after me possibly because I was one of the loudest in accusing them pre-reveal.


Way I see it, there is a two out of three chance that Eloth is not a killer. That's why I now focus elsewhere. Yes, it's not exactly stone cold proof or anything even close, but at the moment everyone is accusing absolutely everyone else, so just trying to cut it down some.

If I believe 1) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Denul, Barghast, Ampelas, Pallid.

If I believe 2) is a stronger option, then the choices (that I know of) are: Kaschan, Atrahal, Nimander

And if 3), then obviously it's Eloth as the choice.



At the moment I lean towards numero dos.

For option one, wouldn't Atrahal also be on that list since he's pushing for an Eloth lynch now?

I'm grouping in terms of who was around and posting at end of day yesterday. But if you did it that way as well, then both Kaschan and Atrahal would fall into both groups.


So Ampelas, why do you think Nimander is voting for you?

[Eloth]

Path-Shaper, on 29 May 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

It is now Day 3. There are 9 hours 13 minutes remaining.

9 players are alive: Ampelas, Atrahal, Barghast, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kaschan, Nimander Golit, Pallid

6 votes to lynch. 5 votes to go to night.

1 vote Eloth: Atrahal
1 vote Ampelas: Nimander Golit
2 votes Atrahal: Pallid, Denul

Not voted: Ampelas, Barghast, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kaschan, Nimander Golit

Thats 2 votes for Atrahal PS

MATH.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 29 May 2014 - 02:13 PM

[Denul]

Alarm bells ringing. Majorly. I need to think.

Wow.

Just wow.

[Galayn Lord]

Denul, what is with the constant repetiton of posting the same image?



Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 29 May 2014 - 01:39 PM

[Eloth]

Galayn Lord, on 29 May 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

Denul, what is with the constant repetiton of posting the same image?



Edit: spelling

I think it's his "Holy crap I just realised something" gif