Hentos Ilm, on 09 May 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:
Korvalain, on 09 May 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:
Putting aside Hentos for a moment, we have a live Magic contract. We have to deal with it somehow.
I would suggest based on the already aired suggestion that we do indeed split the thread into two groups. That we place Demelain in one group. That we hold Demelain in that group for the remainder of the game. If he is scum he cannot NK and still has to use 4 actions a night giving a lifespan of 4 nights (past endgame I'm sure.)
Or, put all the most suspicious alts in there and we not lynch in the other half of thread and wait to see who comes out alive. Demelain has 3 BPs a night so will be the only survivor if other scum are in there. We can then drop the wall and lynch Demelain.
What do people think of curtaining a potential scum off from all NA activity?
For the tactic I highlighted above,
Vote Hentos Ilm
Quote
Furthermore, you may not reveal your registration order on-thread.
Ah, there we go again.
I am afraid that you didn't really think this all through. Either you're having good intentions and/or you didn
't like I turned the lynch around yesterday, or you're scum and trying to rob town of an asset.
To counter the argument that I had the vig:
I didn't hold a contract day 1.
F
irst and foremost, I lacked play time and thus, using any contract I obtained responsibly was going to be hard.
You may see some proof of that in a discussion I had earlier (I think with you, Korvalain or maybe Demelain) where I said I ought to have picked up Shapeshifter because the unused votes would have gravitated towards me and might have made sure we had a lynch day 1, but oh well. You don't need to believe my word on this.
Another potential proof (but I will leave that to those who diligently counted contracts to find out whether that was true or not) could be that the registered number of contracts may not have matched the number of players on day 1. But let's discount that either, yeah, and let's assume theoretically that scum were to own Chronokinesis.
That means that this person had to drop a scum contract day 2 (you named an option), and then pick up Chronokinesis, a contract that has no obvious use for scum that I can see. One potential use, to turn back a scum murdering another scum, is unlikely: the OP states expressedly that all scum know each other and anyway, it would get that person lynched immediately because there would be a CF saying he's scum.
Rewinding night results also wouldn't undo town getting scum on find results, either, which is the potential second use.
Let's now hypothetically assume that I am scum player and, somehow, I am holding Chronokinesis. I am not allowed to confirm or deny, so let's keep this hypothetical.
First, I'd need a motive to actually drop the contract I held and pick up Chronokinesis.
I guess there is one: Ven made a "case" on me early day 2, if I was around then, I could have seen it coming and indeed plan to use Chronokinesis to warrant my own safety.
However: at the start of day 2, Ven was scummy and there was a case on I think Anthras. I'd be target #3 only. The question is, is being threat number 3 worth changing plans for?).
Then: the only player scum could bring back, was town. Thus, if the train wouldn't develop on me and I am indeed scum, I'd waste a contract or hinder scum victory condition, as well as dropping a contract that might have been picked up by town instead, hindering my killing ability. One might say that if I was scum, holding Chrono AND didn't need to use it to look like town, I could use it on myself, relinquish the contract and then pick up Magic, which is decent reasoning, I guess.
However, the train does develop on me and I hypothetically need to bring back someone to look like I am town. Here we really get into wifom territory, but I'd say that the person brought back is advantageous to town, not only short term. The player brought back was Okaros, a player with an information gathering contract on day 1 according to his CF. He comes back with that info, and as a long term benefit to town, that contract is re-opened and available.
Bringing Okaros back is thus a risk compared to bringing back Inane Babble. YMMV whether or not that was an acceptable risk - complete wifom, anyway.
Using the Chronokinesis on Okaros also means that the holder of the Chronokinesis contract cannot relinquish it today.
Why not? Because the clause for release states that the holder has to use it on themselves.
Hence, the holder of the contract is stuck with it at the very least until tonight.
Since we have another killed player in Ryllandaras AND the contract is entirely safe to be used still according to the Renumeration Clause (we're currently at a score of 3, a use tonight would be a score of 5, well below the score of 10 that would lead to a suicide), a town user of the contract would be obliged to try and bring back Ryllandaras, once again, forestalling the owner of the contract from relinquishing it.
As such, I'd say the earliest time to lynch the suspected holder of Chronokinesis is tomorrow, dependant on the following:
IF Ryllandaras isn't returned and/or the contract of Chronokinesis is dropped.
Until then, any vote on the suspected holder of Chronokinesis has to be considered wasted, because Chronokinesis being used would benefit town (as the only killed person yesterday was town) AND even if the holder is scum, it is a scum who is guaranteed to not be killing town.
The consequence is also that if the suspected holder uses the ability on himself and relinquishes the contract, he is not playing in town's best interest either and thus warrants a lynch.
All of the above combined suggest that the contract is a dead end for scum to hold.
If you do feel that the holder of Chronokinesis is scum, vote him the day after he doesn't bring back town or on the day the contract is released.
Before that, you're trying to rob town of a very important asset.
I see your point, thank you.
Karatallid, on 09 May 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:
Just a thought (and this is why mechanics discussion is problematic):
Let's say that players 1-8 had submitted provisionals. In what order does PS update the taken contracts on-thread?
See...in order to PREVENT abuse of that function, PS could just as easily have updated random numbers between player one and player x, as long as all players between them have submitted, right? This would render any speculation on what is essentially meta timing irrelevant. And yet we're powering on ahead as if the logic is infallible. It's a nice assumption to make that this stuff is done in real-time is therefore beneficial to Town, but aside from #1 and #2, we have no real guarantee as to which ones ARE scum, and even within #1-5, we have no idea of the precise order, assuming that the first updated refer to players one through five in the order, not just a selection of five after provisionals in excess of five have been submitted!
My problem with that is that you can select from the available list - anyone who hadn't drawn up provisionals would get to see what contracts are available. Your underlined sentence makes no sense. Why have an order if it is not followed?
Karatallid, on 09 May 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:
Wait a second.
Demelain's got Magic. Great. (Though I might add; Spectral Contract Manipulation is going to be one BITCH of a power. I know the series, and between the title of the power, the remuneration, and it's status, I'm willing to bet money that it is ridiculously useful - it's like D'rek has combined the remuneration of Havoc (the MOST devastating Contractor) with the powers of Bai and/or Izanami....and that is like holy fucking shit, in game terms.)
More importantly: Okaros is CI'ing Ven. Who has PI'd Hentos, and "trusts" Okaros. Are you guys sure that scum isn't playing out in the open?
Can you explain for those of us who don't know the series what SCM could be?
No, not sure they're not playing open. However Okaros CF'd town and you'd have to believe that two scum decided to play such a town game they'd take town roles from the back of the selection order. See above RE order.
Karatallid, on 09 May 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:
Venesara, on 09 May 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:
Korbas.
Karatallid, Anthras, Tholen, Dem and I
On one side.
The rest on yours. We get to lynch a scummy player and dem can clear up other scummy players because I cannot die
So, you want TWO lynches today? Or am I reading the results of having two groups wrong?
One group, of PIs would obviously not lynch. The others could lynch Dem or get NKd. Any NKs in the PIs is unlikely.
Anthras, on 09 May 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:
Pran Chole, on 09 May 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:
This is the sum of everything Tholen has posted.
Read it, but be warned, it will bore you.
Agreement. Offering up the obvious. Summarizing. Makes a list of his feelings on people who have been in the spotlight. And then, there's the weird bit where he seems to lose his shit during the Hentos/Kaschan trains.
And he's received no heat. Nothing obvious, but in recent games we haven't had anything obvious by scum.
Don't forget that somehow the lynch swung over onto Kash and not on to him. Which of the two I feel that his (none) hammer vote was more suspicious.
They were both dodgy as hell, Rash had a head-start in the votes though. Would you rather lynch dodgy alt 1 or try for 2 and risk no lynch again?
Tholen, on 09 May 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:
The lynch swung to Kaschan because of Ven. Ven made it seem like Hentos was claiming to be the one bringing someone back to life that night, which is now very strange because Ven said he is the one who did it. We had very little time left and at the time, only Hentos train was viable, but Ven calls Kaschan and my votes scummy, but not the other 4. I did nothing wrong in trying to help secure a lynch.
I must have missed that post, can you point out where Ven claims Chronokinesis?
Okaros, on 09 May 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:
Karatallid, on 09 May 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:
Wait a second.
Demelain's got Magic. Great. (Though I might add; Spectral Contract Manipulation is going to be one BITCH of a power. I know the series, and between the title of the power, the remuneration, and it's status, I'm willing to bet money that it is ridiculously useful - it's like D'rek has combined the remuneration of Havoc (the MOST devastating Contractor) with the powers of Bai and/or Izanami....and that is like holy fucking shit, in game terms.)
More importantly: Okaros is CI'ing Ven. Who has PI'd Hentos, and "trusts" Okaros. Are you guys sure that scum isn't playing out in the open?
For the record, I never CI'd Ven - I said Ven was VPI, and that Hentos was PI. The only person we should consider CI'd is myself, as you've already seen my CF. But frankly, I'd bet some money that scum are not amongst the three of us, but amongst the 7 of you.
I had Okaros as CI and Ven as VPI. Karatallid mentioned about the Hanas/Okaros swap though a couple of posts before this and now I'm not so sure.
Tholen, on 09 May 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:
Pran Chole, on 08 May 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:
I am also back.
From possession that is.
That final message from "me" about being out for the night was not actually me, and then they didn't bother to post for the rest of Day 2.
So you were possessed all of Day 2, then possession is dropped? Why would they possess you, then not try to make use of it, like try to make you say stupid stuff to get you lynched. I'm not doubting you fully, but it does make us think that you could have been the one to be doing the possessing. It said only he details of possession was revealed. Maybe the person being possessed aren't allowed to say they were. Not directly.
This is interesting. Why indeed Pran did they not try anything with you? Not even a vote to give a clue as to their intentions
Pran Chole, on 09 May 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:
They tried really hard to convince me that we were on the same side. They were going to do what you suggested before, use possession to do finds and signal me the results.
Where did Tholen suggest this before Pran? You convinced them you were town or scum enough that you devised signals?
Okaros 
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