Malazan Empire: Mafia 111 - Malazan Empire

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Mafia 111 Fist of the North Star

#601 User is offline   Denul 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:55 AM

View PostKorabas, on 18 April 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:

View PostDenul, on 18 April 2014 - 02:17 AM, said:

Basically, the theming of Korabas reveal is fine but I think he just looked it up on Wikipedia. The way he expressed it and the supposed ability itself doesn't make sense to me either by fitting into the "variations of standard roles" of the game or in how Korabas explained it. Plus it sounds to me like he received a better ability by revealing against the rules than he already had? Why in the hell would the mods reward him like that for breaking the rules?


Seems like a skill catered specifically to my whole reveal fiasco. Also, you really think I looked up some random manga skill move to make up a role? I wish I had that kind of determination, really. Do as you will, I've given you all I can. Now you waste the threads time by sticking to your tired argument. Either vote for me to avoid the VC in the long run, or vote on someone who you actually think is scum.


Ah, and there's the classic "oh no I would never be such a nuuuuured as to look up something on Wikipedia which would be so hard!" bullshit. You're trying way too hard to sell it, pretending that 1 minute of google searching requires "determination".

#602 User is offline   Korabas 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 02:59 AM

remove vote


I shouldn't vote Tiam just because I'm irritated with Denul.

I like Okral's case. I thought shadow was scummy yesterday as well. I missed the part where he called for the modkill. I mean, sure, even I expected the modkill. But once I got the pass, the only one looking for the modkill would be scum.



vote Shadow

I'm out for the night.

This post has been edited by Korabas: 18 April 2014 - 03:00 AM


#603 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 03:16 AM

It is Day 3.

10 hours and 45 minutes are left.

12 players alive.
Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha

3 votes Korabas: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter
2 votes Tiam: Bek Okhan, Denul
1 vote Denul: Tiamatha
2 votes Shadow: Okral Lom, Korabas

Players not voting: Eloth, Galayn Lord, Lock, Shadow

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 18 April 2014 - 03:17 AM

Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
0

#604 User is offline   Galayn Lord 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 06:25 AM

4 triains going. Not bad, I see we're really pushing options. I think we need to address the elephant in the room though.

I'm gonna try address my thoughts on each train later but I'm laying down a vote on Korabas and will explain why.

View PostDenul, on 18 April 2014 - 02:15 AM, said:

View PostOkral Lom, on 18 April 2014 - 01:16 AM, said:

View PostBek Okhan, on 18 April 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

View PostKorabas, on 18 April 2014 - 12:26 AM, said:

View PostLock, on 18 April 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

What Eloth said. Add to that that at one point you call it 'one' guard and others you imply you can use it indefinitely until another warlord pops their clogs.


Yeah a BP is more accurate. In fact, reading over the ability, it actually says that it is a bullet proof, not a guard. That's me being a nub. The move is called Dextrocardia Situs Inversus; I can't make that sort of shit up. The actual role keeps me from getting NK'd so long as there are other warlords alive. I only had to use it once, hence the 'one'. I get nothing from stringing town along. If you need to lynch me to feel better, go ahead. It's not a bad call at this point. I'm just letting you all know whats going on over on my end. That's it.

Anyone still making this the centre of discussion should be considered later in game. I'm willing to bet there's a scum in here somewhere.


Also, this name doesn't really fit with the theme of the game. It's a condition where the organs are on the other side of the body to where they are usually found.


To be honest, that sounds pretty plausible to me - someone tries to hit you in the heart when they attack, but miss because it's not where they thought it was. Or something like that.

I don't like the way Korabas is trying to tar the names of those who question him, but I do find his reveal plausible. Going to have a look around and see if there's anything else to act as a counterpoint to the Tiam case. Not saying I don't think that's a good case, but there need to be multiple options on the table.


It's abstractly plausible. Korabas is basically trying to hint that he is Souther, one of the gangleaders, who has Dextrocardia. But in the manga its called Emperor's Armor and I think if Shin had included it it would be called that. Furthermore, based on how it plays out in the manga it would really just be a single BP, not some weird toggle BP that kills you if the other warlords are dead.


3 Votes Korabas:

Korabas has a very shaky looking reveal, so many odd things, I basically agree with the cross examinations above. I've been on the receiving end of an ability discussion gone wrong. It's gonna be impossible to buy but thats the catch 22, the truth can seem so outrageous its hard to see it as anything else but a lie. The whole thing is too bizzarre. Someone said something earlier to this effect, "how does any of it even help Korabas?" I'm not seeing it ATM. Maybe Korabas slipped in a few lies to aide his agenda but I don't see how it'd help anyone, It's effectively painting two targets on his back and tempting both shooters (town or scum) to wait and see what the other shooter does before acting on him.

Suppose Korabas is a Warleader with a BP. Won't know for sure till another Warleader dies and I guess we just need to debate the worth of waiting for proof.

Kesso asked earlier how does Town respond to this if its true? Well Theres nothing I think town can do in response besides Waiting or lynching. The only proof I'd believe is a failed NA, Don't see that happening, pretty sure scum are loving the likes of Denul and Korabas right now, and I mean if either of them are actually scum we are being shamelessly hoodwinked.

If we get a confirmed Warleader taken out spotlight shifts to Korabas. Should he last the night by design he starts to look scummy and muddies future decisions when in later days things should start to look clearer, I know its a huge WIFOMism but I'm driving at the simple fact either way no one can rely on Korabas one way or the other. I don't see town hurting without Korabas as he adds plenty of confusion and has not got the best handle on the game. That all said I see Korabas as a town player either not thinking clearly or playing a VERY risky game.

I mentioned earlier confusion around Korabas might be good for town but Korabas has since explained alot of specifics that "tell" scum how to go about things and "tell" town how to handle his reveal. It's all gonna come to a head and our only real gain is deciding to deny scum a VC or not. something I also realize might not even happen if Korabas isn't even who he claims to be!

On the odd chance we have a BP townie I don't think we get much of the benefit with the BP out there in the open. I just think Korabas would be the worst possible town to have endgame and with Denul still around thats saying alot.

TL;dR: we lynch to clear towns game and possibly prevent scums second VC.

Vote Korabas


More from me after breakfast. I'm on for another hour or so.

#605 User is offline   Bek Okhan 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:24 AM

Ok, I can see we aren't going to get anything else done until we clear the spectre of Korabas from the game.

Remove vote

Vote Korabas


#606 User is offline   Tiamatha 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:49 AM

morning, quite the post fest last night.

The big convoluted reveal. Makes some interesting points for me.

1 if Korabas is telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth then he should be left alive. Why? If its the truth then surely warlords will not CF, otherwise his second ability is nonsensical, why would you ever use it if you knew another warlord was dead?

2 if Korabas is misinterpreting his pm accidentally, then I don't know

3 if Korabas is lying about any of it, either the whole reveal or embellishing some parts he needs to go, lynch all liars.

personally now his position is too convoluted and ridiculous to be left sitting, something in the corner of the room that constantly draws the eye and distracts, I'll be doing a quick tot of the votes and before doing anything rash, don't worry.



however

Prepare to groan heavily.

Denul was the first to back me (slightly) on the hold fire on Korabas lynch, he latched onto Beks case on me after Korabas spiel, when lynching him (Imo) had turned from a waste of a lynch based on the warlord VC to geniune confusion spreading possible lying nonsense.

Just saying Denul is where my gut is at, my gut was right in gotm and I ignored it, to gustys delight and eventual win, I'll proably keep harping on about him until a smoking gun is presented suggesting otherwise

#607 User is offline   Tiamatha 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 07:50 AM

that's 5 on Korabas, I'm not going to L-1 him just yet, have a few errands to run, will see what happens in that time

#608 User is offline   Galayn Lord 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:19 AM

2 votes Tiam: Bek Okhan, Denul
1 vote Denul: Tiamatha
2 votes Shadow: Okral Lom, Korabas

Ok these may be a bit harder to review. my feelings on Denul are fuzzying the further from Day 1 we get. Something MO did warn would happen. My main doubt of Denul as scum relies on Sercs innocence. Denul was set up as sercs symp and after sercs CF I started placing doubt on anyone chasing the Denul case down after Sercs CF. In my mind had Serc CF'd scum Denul would need to be examined. I said as much on thread I think, not 100% but I was thinking it anyways. Apart from this we had that behaviour case from MO. I think Denuls behaviour reflected the situation honestly because of my own read of him and in light of Serc CFing RI I'm thinking Denul and Serc were getting all that attention on purpose ALA Maccy was by Tatts previous game.

Now In recent light I only find Denul looking scummy on the time based Wifomisms, especially when I collate Locks and Shadows together. I think as the day progressed less and less from Denul pings me as scummy and that may be the telling factor on the Tiamatha case.

Tiam is at the forefront of the "We don't think Denul deserves to have survived day 1" front. As Bek highlighted, Tiam seems to be super aggressive towards looking at other options. I think Tiam has blinkers on Denul. I think Tiam does not take seriously how unlikely the day 1 case on Denul looks right now but again thats my persective. The only thing I'd follow on Denul this far into Day 3 would be the Time based WIfomisms which Tiam completely discredits. I find Tiams argument on Denul to be little more than "Denul dodged a lynch. He should pay for his crimes."

I also think The votes on shadow put heat on shadow for similar reasons. Of the players jumping to conclusions day 1 both Tiam and Shadow seem to fill the bracket. I do not think Tiam is scummy as much as I think he is super invested in Day 1 (also his gut). I think there have been some decent town thoughts from Tiam though. My main problem with shadows list is that it was made by shadow whom I feel may be trying to shepherd town. That aside it was a logical list. untrustworthy on its own but worth reffering to as these are facts regardless what motives lie behind them.

Truth be told if Tiam or Shadow brought a case on Denul regarding his Day 2 and Day 3 activities (as I think Tiam has attempted a few times) I'd be of a mind to relax suspicions on them because Day 1 on its own is not enough on Denul. Shadows shift to Korabas had me interested. Its an odd thing to do after investing the time to build up a list of candidates. Not really addressing them all or at the very least Denul and Rikkter whom I thought were the highlights on either List makes me wonder.
My main thought is that Shadows list and Tiamathas posting against it looks like two players debating opposite ends of the only case I see implicating Denul. Theres a weirdness about these interactions but I can't say I see an overiding need to lynch any of them just yet. More content is needed for me to make a decision on any of them.


If I was to pick from the other three trains I'd vote Shadow because I really get the feeling Shadow made that list to PI someone. If he took the list seriously I'd think he'd be more critical of his five candidates Ampelas, Denul, Eloth, Rikkter, Tiamatha and ofcourse himself. Ironically Shadow is looking the most likely of the bunch.


Edit: Removed code

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 18 April 2014 - 08:20 AM


#609 User is offline   Galayn Lord 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:29 AM

Ok that took alot longer than I thought. Sorry for the huge wall of text but I'm gonna be driving for the next two hours and wanted to get my thoughts out there before I head off. I'll try pop in before days end. Otherwise will follow via phone.

#610 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:32 AM

It is Day 3.

5 hours and 30 minutes are left.

12 players alive.
Ampelas, Bek Okhan, Denul, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Kessobahn, Korabas, Lock, Okral Lom, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha

7 votes to lynch, 6 to go to night.

5 votes Korabas: Ampelas, Kessobahn, Rikkter, Galayn Lord, Bek Okhan
1 votes Tiam: Denul
1 vote Denul: Tiamatha
2 votes Shadow: Okral Lom, Korabas

Players not voting: Eloth, Lock, Shadow
Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
0

#611 User is offline   Tiamatha 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 08:47 AM

ok I'm going to work and mobile signal sucks here. Chances of me being on pre end of day are sketchy.

vote Korabas

#612 User is offline   Kessobahn 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 09:07 AM

I've got an hour or so. Just so nobody hammers by accident.

Remove Vote

#613 User is offline   Okral Lom 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:14 AM

Hi all, I'm here and reading up.

#614 User is offline   Kessobahn 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:40 AM

I'm going to be afk for the next 2 or 3 hours.

Vote Korabas

#615 User is offline   Kessobahn 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

That puts him back on L1

#616 User is offline   Kessobahn 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:41 AM

That puts him back on L1

#617 User is offline   Okral Lom 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:46 AM

OK, so Denul's points about the Korabas reveal make sense to me. I decided to try googling it myself to see what would come up if I was looking for ability names. The thing is, pretty much every discussion of Souther I've found (particularly Wikipedia) explicitly mentions the phrase "Emperor's Armor", so it seems very natural to me that if you were trying to fake something up you would use that term. So the question is, why would anyone (either PS running the game or Korabas trying to fake a reveal) use DSI instead of 'Emperor's Armor' to describe their abilities?

#618 User is offline   Okral Lom 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

View PostKessobahn, on 18 April 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

That puts him back on L1


Noted. At this point it seems as though Korabas is the only option for a lynch (and Denul makes some good arguments about the holes in his reveal), so I'm willing to switch for a lynch. I'll wait to switch for a couple of hours just in case anyone else wants to chime in before end of day.

#619 User is offline   Ampelas 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

View PostKorabas, on 17 April 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

So I'm back, and PS reassured me that its good to post.

View PostTiamatha, on 17 April 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

View PostPath-Shaper, on 11 April 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

Game specific rules:

REVEALS OF IDENTITY ARE STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. Reveals of abilities, real or fake, are allowed.

Because everyone in the Hokuto world is bulging with self-confidence, Self-voting is not allowed, even "to get a lynch".

Days are 32 hours, nights are instant. (Martial artists must be immediately decisive) ^_^

Victory Conditions

Town: Eliminate Kenshiro

Scum: Achieve majority OR Kenshiro kills the 3 warlords. If a warlord is lynched, it does not count toward this VC, which becomes null.


abilities can be claimed.

if your ability somehow is related to you survival it throws pretty much everything based on your survival out the window.

several is anything more than 2 afaik

eta - inflatable girlfriends watch whatever you tell them too


I'm just being extra careful since I fucked myself over recently. So my ability essentially guards me from night kills until another warlord dies. I had another role that I was trying to play yesterday. Essentially it announced my killer to the thread in the event of my death. Presumably this should have revealed Kenshiro. However, since I broke the rules, I lost that ability. Instead I now have the one super-guard. The only downside is that using my guard came with a gamble. If another warlord was dead already, then it would have killed me immediately. I'm guessing that warlords might not be revealed as such when they die. The only people that might know if a warlord is dead are those players who were given that information (team members, presumably). This is all I have to offer. I hope it helps.

To scum.: Mouahahaha I am invincible!


Sorry, but this strikes me as so much bullshit.

We have most likely got a single killer in the game - Kenshiro. So he NKs you and gets announced on thread by your ability. We then lynch him. Game over for scum. This doesn't strike me as being a setup with much in the way of hope for scums #2 VC.

Underlined screams symp at me. Explain how it is different to us not seeing a Warlord CF because you're symp and going to CF as town.

Italicised section, people take a look at your own PM and draw your own conclusions from the section in brackets.

I'm 100% certain you're not town RI, I have grave doubts about you being a Warlord. At least when you CF as RI we'll know you were a symp and can look into yesterday/today with that in mind.

#620 User is offline   Ampelas 

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Posted 18 April 2014 - 11:10 AM

View PostKorabas, on 17 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Back from work. I was pretty bummed about the whole mess. But I'll help where I can.



View PostDenul, on 17 April 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Briefly checking in and quickly reading up.

I disagree with Tiam that considering player posting times with the lack of a Korabas NK is without merit. Despite potential wifom situations, the really is no reason for the killer not to have switched to Korabas if they could. There is minimal gain in the wifom department, because Shin's mod post basically CI'd Korabas despite him not being NK'd. At the same time, the killer would know for sure there's a good possibility of us lynching Korabas if he survives. Killing Korabas maintains the easier scum VC which potentially alleviates the killer ever having to get into a more dangerous D-Day where there are fewer town players to hide amongst.

So, I do think if the killer was online they would have certainly switched to Korabas. There's just not enough value in not doing so for them, as far as I can see. Looking at who was and wasn't online at the time (as well as taking into account the MO NK, which is wifomier but worth thinking about in conjunction with this timing case) is very worthwhile, IMO.

I also disagree about gangleaders not being revealed in CFs. The dead have so far been CF'd as not just innocent but RI. RI means something very specific and the gangleaders are certainly not RI based upon the OP/sign-up hints.

I do, however, agree with Tiam about lynching Korabas. We have a CI/VPI, no need to do a guaranteed wasted lynch on him. No other gangleaders have CF'd yet, so losing one tonight is not a big deal. There are still two left that we might lynch by mistake or that can deliberately do something stupid to get lynched if they are the last one and are afraid Kenshiro will get his 3 leader NKs.


I didn't get NK'd because of my ability. I need to double check with PS to see if I can elaborate further. I'm waiting on a response, but I have to head out for a bit anyway. I'll be back in an hour or two to expand on this.


Interesting claim here. So you're claiming to have been targeted for a NK? Well, given that Alkend was NKd I call bullshit on this too. BPs don't work like that*.

*Note Shin said some variations on typical roles but BPs don't generally deflect - if they did you chose Alkend to deflect to? Why?

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