[Gust Hubb]

Okral Lom, on 15 April 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

Interesting. Maybe someone got annoyed at his posting style or something? I'm a little surprised, because it seemed as though MO was about to come under some heat. I guess we'll just have to live without his Librarian impersonation from now on (judging by the complaints of everyone doing catch-up, he won't be missed).

Asshole.

Le sigh.

[Gust Hubb]

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Thank heavens I'm dead. I couldn't have coped with fighting D'rek another day. I see I was also right about her, albeit wrong about her too. She was acting funny, and she was roled. Unfortunately, I don't always pick up on whether or not a person is roled scum or roled town... One of my greatest weaknesses, although, I have been lucky of late.

I also am gravely disappointed in all the flak for RPing. I know that it wasn't in character with the game, but after thinking about trying to play a dumb ape, I didn't see that going well for me or my team. So I played a smart one. Le sigh, we really need to lighten up all those grumpy sods. When I do the Misfits game, maybe RPing will be mandatory.

Looks like a fun one Shin. Sorry that you had to bear up under my RP even in the PMs

Actually, I didn't care at all. I was just worried you'd start a swarm of avatar changes.

Hehe. Yeah, that's why I deigned not to change the avatar, due to your concern. I just added avatars within my posts, until people got uppity and I tried to make it less burdensome. No pleasing everyone I suppose. How are things btw?

[Path-Shaper]

D'rek and Khell convo

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Mechanics-wise, I agree probably no Finder. As a faction game, it would be both too powerful when it finds leaders/Kenshiro and too pointless when it hits anyone else. Better to just give vigs out that require more thought before using, but shorten the "Find Kenshiro > Reveal it > Lynch Kenshiro" path to "Vig Kenshiro".

I actually don't know the manga/anime much at all, but it seems like the type that if this had been a 3xfaction+serial killer game the factions could be completely symmetrical or not. If Shin/Jagi is good enough of a character relationship to be lovers, each of the other leaders could have a lover, too.

It also seems like RIs know their leaders, but not their leaders' alts, and probably either 6 or 9 players are RIs. I guess if it had been a faction game they would know their leaders' alts though.

Hmm, Shin said that the RIs were grouped randomly, so the warlord "factions" are uneven, which I think does support your thought that RIs do not know the alt of their erstwhile leader.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kenshiro has one or more abilities than just kill - something to confound us...I wonder if, actually, Kenshiro himself might have a find to help them look for the warlords - it would fit nicely into this whole reversal where we are town but are bad, and he is scum but is good, thus a 'town' ability for the scum player.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

Yeah, the signalling/symp-focus thing is something that has been bugging me for a while... and actually probably part of the reason I wasn't enjoying mafia as much and stopped playing as much. Of course, I *wanted* to vent about it in the Name of the Rose game, but if I had you just know everyone would have immediately gone all "she's being reasonable and trying to focus town, must be scum bluffing, lynch her!"

Well, that's part of the reason why I made the game that way (that and, you know, not having any experience in game balancing ), because I'd noticed the growing focus on looking for symps, and wanted to use that against the players. However, I don't think the point was heeded, sadly

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

I don't remember Shin saying uneven RI distribution. Could it be just that we have the 1 extra player? In any case, if they don't even know their leaders' alts it doesn't really matter how they are distributed. Maybe it is just because he wanted to have certain character names' used.

He did say it "Contains some variations of typical roles" in the signup thread, and that for TvS 15 would be best.

If he wasn't planning for it to be asymmetric factions, then (4 + 4 + 4) v 3 = 15 would make the most sense, I think. I would guess something like Kenshiro has one symp (Yuria?) and another ally that is not a symp. Maybe a lover+guard, or someone that can inherit his kill, etc.

Kenshiro having a find sounds too easy if he can also kill. With 16 players, he can just sit back and do finds until he finds the 3 leaders, withholding his kill to make it easier to hide.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Gotcha, thanks. Seems like that could indeed be something just put in because it is TvS, then, and the numbers would still be something like

Kenshiro
Kenshiro's ally
Kenshiro's symp
3 leaders (1 per "faction")
3 leader-lovers (1 per "faction")
7 RIs distributed randomly

though that doesn't really give us the promised "Contains some variations of typical roles". So maybe each leader has a lieutenant that knows them but they are not all lovers.

Heck, from a modding PoV I often look at a designed game and say "No way am I copy+pasting 4 lover convos to SH, let's change these 3 to something else"

[Path-Shaper]

Gust Hubb, on 15 April 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 15 April 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Thank heavens I'm dead. I couldn't have coped with fighting D'rek another day. I see I was also right about her, albeit wrong about her too. She was acting funny, and she was roled. Unfortunately, I don't always pick up on whether or not a person is roled scum or roled town... One of my greatest weaknesses, although, I have been lucky of late.

I also am gravely disappointed in all the flak for RPing. I know that it wasn't in character with the game, but after thinking about trying to play a dumb ape, I didn't see that going well for me or my team. So I played a smart one. Le sigh, we really need to lighten up all those grumpy sods. When I do the Misfits game, maybe RPing will be mandatory.

Looks like a fun one Shin. Sorry that you had to bear up under my RP even in the PMs

Actually, I didn't care at all. I was just worried you'd start a swarm of avatar changes.

Hehe. Yeah, that's why I deigned not to change the avatar, due to your concern. I just added avatars within my posts, until people got uppity and I tried to make it less burdensome. No pleasing everyone I suppose. How are things btw?

Pretty good. Mafia has picked up recently, and I also have more time to play, so that's good.

All is well with you?

[Gust Hubb]

Yeah pretty good. Wife and kids are leaving today for Seattle and I'm stuck home, going to work tomorrow, so a little bummed. But it's always good to be a bachelor every so often and makes me appreciate them all the more when they come home.

[Path-Shaper]

More lovers. Lots of bad alting going on.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

That latest GL post is cold and well-reasoned. You know me, I'm terrible at alting people, but maybe it is Ment? In any case, GL will be one to watch - with posts like that he can keep up a low post-count but still look very contentful.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Or its Vengy being calm and collected because he is scum

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 07:41 PM, said:

Not sure if OL is just being reasonable or knows I'm a leader. Worth considering both, I guess.

I am worried given how much traction MO's case has gotten (it's been critiqued and ignored, but also has a few people like Tiam just kinda blindly going with it, it seems) that he is another leader with a follower or two that know him.

Meaning that the best play tomorrow is to try and just gently shunt him aside and look somewhere completely new. Eurgh... something tells me he is not going to try and let that happen and will force me into hinting this. Or, Okral will follow-up strongly on MO and drive a train on him.

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yeah, I was surprised by Okral's sudden reversal. Maybe he's just fed up of the RP

I had a thought that Serc and Shadow might be linked, as Shadow's ridiculous reasoning for voting for you almost suggests they're trying to find extra reasons for others to choose to vote you over Serc.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Could be. Or Shadow could just be exactly as he seems. I'm going to guess he is Trull's Son, or someone like that that I don't have too much of an idea of how they play.

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Let's keep in mind Korabas as a possible leader/Kenshiro as well, given how - as OL pointed out - as soon as suspicion fell on him there was multiple defenses on his behalf.


Gah, this setup actually has the potential to be very annoying. If both leaders and Kenshiro (not proven) have followers that know them, we can't easily find Kenshiro based on anyone's reactions/symping/etc. He essentially has 3 decoys in that department. We'll have to focus solely on individual behaviours.

[Gust Hubb]

Yeah, Mafia has. It's great. I think the M&Ps are drawing people back. We had a string of super complicated games, and that coupled with 100 made me think that people were burning out.

[Path-Shaper]

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Let's keep in mind Korabas as a possible leader/Kenshiro as well, given how - as OL pointed out - as soon as suspicion fell on him there was multiple defenses on his behalf.


Gah, this setup actually has the potential to be very annoying. If both leaders and Kenshiro (not proven) have followers that know them, we can't easily find Kenshiro based on anyone's reactions/symping/etc. He essentially has 3 decoys in that department. We'll have to focus solely on individual behaviours.

Or work our way through those being defended. We can still win even if we lynch the warlords (indeed, it removes one way for victory for Kenshiro).
...oh, erm, obviously, I don't mean you as well, your lordship

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

So Monok was Gust. Gusty's been good in recent games at sniffing out scum early. But I guess with you he just started believing his own hype

[Path-Shaper]

Gust Hubb, on 15 April 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Yeah, Mafia has. It's great. I think the M&Ps are drawing people back. We had a string of super complicated games, and that coupled with 100 made me think that people were burning out.

Yeah. Maccy will only play if it isn't complicated, and I don't blame him. I love Tappers games, but they do my head in.

My original Hokuto game was going to be pretty complicated, but I kept running butting my head against one game-breaking scenario that I couldn't figure out how to get rid of, so I just said "fuck it" and turned it into a mildly unique role town/scum game.

[Gust Hubb]

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 09:06 PM, said:

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Let's keep in mind Korabas as a possible leader/Kenshiro as well, given how - as OL pointed out - as soon as suspicion fell on him there was multiple defenses on his behalf.


Gah, this setup actually has the potential to be very annoying. If both leaders and Kenshiro (not proven) have followers that know them, we can't easily find Kenshiro based on anyone's reactions/symping/etc. He essentially has 3 decoys in that department. We'll have to focus solely on individual behaviours.

Or work our way through those being defended. We can still win even if we lynch the warlords (indeed, it removes one way for victory for Kenshiro).
...oh, erm, obviously, I don't mean you as well, your lordship

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

So Monok was Gust. Gusty's been good in recent games at sniffing out scum early. But I guess with you he just started believing his own hype

As I said Khells, I am great at picking up Roled-Players. They act different and get all weird when confronted. D'rek was roled, so I think I was spot on, just the wrong team as I am wont to do. And considering that the warlords are actually scum in the show, I'd say I hit it on the nail

[Serc]

That was anticlimactic. I really ought to post absolutely nothing of any shred of substance on Day 1, don't I?

[Gust Hubb]

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 15 April 2014 - 09:42 PM, said:

Yeah, Mafia has. It's great. I think the M&Ps are drawing people back. We had a string of super complicated games, and that coupled with 100 made me think that people were burning out.

Yeah. Maccy will only play if it isn't complicated, and I don't blame him. I love Tappers games, but they do my head in.

My original Hokuto game was going to be pretty complicated, but I kept running butting my head against one game-breaking scenario that I couldn't figure out how to get rid of, so I just said "fuck it" and turned it into a mildly unique role town/scum game.

I have yet to learn that frustration. I'll probably find out with my complicated Misfits game. Heh. But I like these novel M&Ps. They are just the thing in my opinion. I am shit at faction games.

[Gust Hubb]

Serc, on 15 April 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

That was anticlimactic. I really ought to post absolutely nothing of any shred of substance on Day 1, don't I?

Meh, I think you were fine Ment. It was just the aberrant mechanics speculation that got you. Really, anyone posting like that is definitely not high up the totem pole in my experience, but people just get a liiiiittle to excited when they can tear someone a new one.

[Gust Hubb]

I really get frustrated that people won't listen to my ideas. I've been honing them game after game, have had people compliment me for being spot on, but when the rubber meets the road, nobody listens. Plus, the people that I don't want listening kill me everytime. When I don't die, people should think I'm scum. I tend to get NK'd with alarming frequency.

[Path-Shaper]

Town is packed with really smart RI's this time. Tiam the symp is right that getting rid of you two was good for his scum partners. Thing is, they still have to contend with Tatts, ST etc.

D'rek is good too, but she's going to be busy defending herself.

[Path-Shaper]

Yes and No

Denul, on 15 April 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:

Interesting. I suspect that kill order was put in long ago because the killer was annoyed at the RP. Gust was getting so much flak by end-day that I doubt the killer would've chosen to kill him late day/at night.

[Gust Hubb]

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Town is packed with really smart RI's this time. Tiam the symp is right that getting rid of you two was good for his scum partners. Thing is, they still have to contend with Tatts, ST etc.

D'rek is good too, but she's going to be busy defending herself.

Good

Yeah, that was actually a very packed Day 1 with not too many getting waylaid by stupid sidetracks. I still don't understand the tack on Serc, but at least it wasn't a pile on fest like Day 1's are oft to be.

[Gust Hubb]

Awesome way to go. I approve.

[Path-Shaper]

ansible has updated their provisional list, and fortunately for them have moved their symp way down.

Eloth, on 15 April 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 15 April 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Your final kill is Monok, so that's what I'm going with. Switch as much as you want, but thanks for the bolding as it makes it easy to see.

Yeah, that was what I ended up deciding on, and now that I know it was Gusty I'm quite glad I switched back.

I'll keep bolding any provisional changes and/or increasing font size since apparently I'm a schizo when it comes to choosing targets.

Boy did I get lucky with Ment and GH on day 1 though. Whew.

Also GH was drawing a lot of heat which is playing right now as well as I could have expected - confusion over why MO since he was already under such pressure with the RP and boner for Denul. BCS, this gets Denul lynched today and perhaps Alkend tonight...yes...

New day, new list. Guessing the Warlords are low-posting since the RP/math mechanic turned out to be nothing.


Provisional Kills; move to next target if lynched:

Alkend
Ampelas
Ruse
Lock
Rikkter
Kessobahn
Shadow
Korabas
Tiamatha
Okral Lom
Bek Okhan
Denul

He's a long ways from hitting one of the 3 warlords, though.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 15 April 2014 - 10:43 PM

[Path-Shaper]

WIFOM. Is this the beginning of a Khell meltdown?

Lock, on 15 April 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

Denul said:

1397598834[/url]']
Interesting. I suspect that kill order was put in long ago because the killer was annoyed at the RP. Gust was getting so much flak by end-day that I doubt the killer would've chosen to kill him late day/at night.

My thoughts exactly. Monok had dropped their RP at the end too, so that particular irritation had finished anyway, if that was the reason for the killer targetting them. So the killer could very well be someone who didn't post in the last 2-3 hours of the day.

Unless, of course, that's what they want us to think