[Path-Shaper]

Ouch for town. Outside of mentioning Tiam, D'rek doesn't even bring up Eloth or GL. I wonder if that's on purpose?

Denul, on 21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

I'm up late and might not be on particularly early tomorrow so might as well jot some thoughts down before we resume tomorrow morning.


So, Korabas was a warlord after all and Kessobahn turned out to be one, too. Interestingly, Kesso was very critical/disbelieving of Korabas' reveal, which says to me the warlords do not have the same abilities - who knows what the last one out there has, hopefully something good. Doesn't give us much to go on as far as identifying a hiding roled townie to avoid lynching versus a hiding Kenshiro to target, but no biggie.

Furthermore, while he could have been lying we have to assume Korabas was telling the truth about his abilities. In particular his first claimed ability where if he is NK'd it reveals who killed him sounds to me like we have either multiple scum (possibly an inheritor?) or some other kind of defense for Kenshiro (perhaps a 1x Jump like Amon from the Bender game?), or else it seems a bit too easy of a town win if we happened to get lucky with Korabas' ability, can lynch the revealed Kenshiro and win just like that. So I'd guess we're at DDay+2 right now.


Other people-wise, Shadow still looks almost too scummy, while Tiam still pings my scumdar with his manner of always talking like he is pushing a vote but not always following through/responding to rebuttals of his accusations (albeit this was more of a thing days 1 and 2, not as bad day 3). I'd be happy to vote for either of them. On the other hand, a voice in the back of my head whispers "smoooooth" every time I think of Bek, Lock or Okral right now. Lastly, Amp and Rikkter continue to be low in both posts and content.

So there's lots to look at and I hope we can all get right back into the spirit of things after the long weekend break ends. I'm planning to do a full read-up tomorrow night and see what comes out of the woodwork for me. For now, good night!

[Path-Shaper]

Trull, on 19 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 April 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 18 April 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

ansible is scary. He's just picked out Shin.

Eloth, on 18 April 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

I am slightly disappointed at the destruction of the Warlord VCs due to Korabas breaking the rules. I realize it is and was your call, but the whole reveal/fake-reveal bit that Korabas was able to say on thread that P-S had confirmed for him really fucked me a bit, I think. Regardless of whether his abilities, new or old, were actually real, he basically was able to reveal his actual identity by giving the name of an ability that permanently tied him to one of the three Warlords - that's as good as an "identity reveal" in my mind - which did turn out to be true, he was the Warlord that he implied he was by naming his ability. It's good that another townie was lynched but after he revealed that he was a Warlord, there was not a chance in hell that the Warlord VCs were going to be fulfilled.

The man has a point. I didn't think about it because I had already decided to throw Korabas under the bus, but by naming that ability he did really did break the rules.

One day we'll have to decide what it means to not be allowed to reveal your identity, while being allowed to reveal your ability (whether true or not). Naming the ability was not against the rules. In fact, I probably should have done that instead of the role reveal. It would have accomplished the same thing, except without breaking the rules. The problem is, by "giving the name of an ability that permanently tied [me] to one of the three Warlords," it was no different than a role reveal. The line gets hard to spot at times.

But why would an ability reveal automatically = warlord? Lock is one part of a lover convo, and he's not a warlord. I could have put more non-warlord townies with abilities in the game (my original design called for that).

[Trull's son]

Path-Shaper, on 21 April 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

Trull, on 19 April 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 April 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 18 April 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

ansible is scary. He's just picked out Shin.

Eloth, on 18 April 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

I am slightly disappointed at the destruction of the Warlord VCs due to Korabas breaking the rules. I realize it is and was your call, but the whole reveal/fake-reveal bit that Korabas was able to say on thread that P-S had confirmed for him really fucked me a bit, I think. Regardless of whether his abilities, new or old, were actually real, he basically was able to reveal his actual identity by giving the name of an ability that permanently tied him to one of the three Warlords - that's as good as an "identity reveal" in my mind - which did turn out to be true, he was the Warlord that he implied he was by naming his ability. It's good that another townie was lynched but after he revealed that he was a Warlord, there was not a chance in hell that the Warlord VCs were going to be fulfilled.

The man has a point. I didn't think about it because I had already decided to throw Korabas under the bus, but by naming that ability he did really did break the rules.

One day we'll have to decide what it means to not be allowed to reveal your identity, while being allowed to reveal your ability (whether true or not). Naming the ability was not against the rules. In fact, I probably should have done that instead of the role reveal. It would have accomplished the same thing, except without breaking the rules. The problem is, by "giving the name of an ability that permanently tied [me] to one of the three Warlords," it was no different than a role reveal. The line gets hard to spot at times.

But why would an ability reveal automatically = warlord? Lock is one part of a lover convo, and he's not a warlord. I could have put more non-warlord townies with abilities in the game (my original design called for that).

With wiki information at hand, an ability reveal by name will pretty much reveal not only the warlord, but also which warlord. I'm not saying that I agree with that necessarily (scum can read the wiki and lie easily enough).

[Path-Shaper]

Gotcha.

[Gust Hubb]

tough post-easter start for town.

[Path-Shaper]

Okral Lom, on 22 April 2014 - 12:43 AM, said:

Wow, quiet thread over the weekend. Don't have time to post now, but to organise my thoughts here's a categorisation of how I see the remaining players, loosely ordered by suspicion:

Probably Innocent:
Ampelas - First to bring up Warlord Symps. Pretty sure he's clean.


Not Very Suspicious:
Denul - I would put Denul in the same category as Ampelas except that by declaring he knows about symps after Ampelas he hasn't proven anything.
Bek Okhan - Fairly sure he was symping Korabas (either that or it was some of the best fake-symping I've seen in a while). So probably a town symp.

Good Townies:
Galayn Lord - Low posting but putting in a lot of effort when he does post. I feel like a scum low poster wouldn't be putting in that much effort, but perhaps that's overly simplistic thinking.
Tiamatha - Not always the best thought out, but he is trying to poke people and elicit reactions.
Lock - Making (sometimes suspiciously ineffective) cases, appears to be working hard.


Bad Townies:
Rikkter - Drifting through the game without being useful.
Shadow - makes some awful logic jumps. Too dogmatic in his vision, refuses to consider other options.
Eloth - Tightly under control, gives his opinions but doesn't push the game on too much. I have a bad feeling about him, but I can't quite figure out why.


You may notice that all three of the "Bad Townies" were in the scum pool I drew up after Day 1 based on post count. I'm not sure whether that's because I'm biased towards them to make my prediction right or because they genuinely are more scummy. Also, it's not necessarily the case that a 'Bad Townie' is more suspicious than a 'Good Townie'. It's just that all other things being equal I'd prefer to keep the good ones around.


ST

[Path-Shaper]

Gust Hubb, on 21 April 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

tough post-easter start for town.

Bringing brains back from break is always tricky.

[Path-Shaper]

I'm not sure why ansible is assuming he has no other allies.

Eloth, on 21 April 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 18 April 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

If it's any consolation, most scum don't get that extra VC in a game like this, so really you're just back on equal footing with most town/scum games.

It would be more consoling if the game started at like 12 town vs. 3 scum instead of 14 vs. 2. 1 scum per 7 town, really? M&P is like 1/3 or 1/4 on average. You're killing me, P-S. Killing me.

[Path-Shaper]

Sir Thursday noticed the same thing I did.

Path-Shaper, on 21 April 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

Ouch for town. Outside of mentioning Tiam, D'rek doesn't even bring up Eloth or GL. I wonder if that's on purpose?

Denul, on 21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

I'm up late and might not be on particularly early tomorrow so might as well jot some thoughts down before we resume tomorrow morning.


So, Korabas was a warlord after all and Kessobahn turned out to be one, too. Interestingly, Kesso was very critical/disbelieving of Korabas' reveal, which says to me the warlords do not have the same abilities - who knows what the last one out there has, hopefully something good. Doesn't give us much to go on as far as identifying a hiding roled townie to avoid lynching versus a hiding Kenshiro to target, but no biggie.

Furthermore, while he could have been lying we have to assume Korabas was telling the truth about his abilities. In particular his first claimed ability where if he is NK'd it reveals who killed him sounds to me like we have either multiple scum (possibly an inheritor?) or some other kind of defense for Kenshiro (perhaps a 1x Jump like Amon from the Bender game?), or else it seems a bit too easy of a town win if we happened to get lucky with Korabas' ability, can lynch the revealed Kenshiro and win just like that. So I'd guess we're at DDay+2 right now.


Other people-wise, Shadow still looks almost too scummy, while Tiam still pings my scumdar with his manner of always talking like he is pushing a vote but not always following through/responding to rebuttals of his accusations (albeit this was more of a thing days 1 and 2, not as bad day 3). I'd be happy to vote for either of them. On the other hand, a voice in the back of my head whispers "smoooooth" every time I think of Bek, Lock or Okral right now. Lastly, Amp and Rikkter continue to be low in both posts and content.

So there's lots to look at and I hope we can all get right back into the spirit of things after the long weekend break ends. I'm planning to do a full read-up tomorrow night and see what comes out of the woodwork for me. For now, good night!

Okral Lom, on 23 April 2014 - 12:44 AM, said:

Interesting player list from Denul:

Denul, on 21 April 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

Other people-wise, Shadow still looks almost too scummy, while Tiam still pings my scumdar with his manner of always talking like he is pushing a vote but not always following through/responding to rebuttals of his accusations (albeit this was more of a thing days 1 and 2, not as bad day 3). I'd be happy to vote for either of them. On the other hand, a voice in the back of my head whispers "smoooooth" every time I think of Bek, Lock or Okral right now. Lastly, Amp and Rikkter continue to be low in both posts and content.

He doesn't mention GL or Eloth...curious.

[Path-Shaper]

Man, NO one is talking about the actual scum, except for ST in regards to Eloth, and even those suspicions are rather assuaged. At this point, I think town's best chance is for them to avoid a Denul lynch, and for ansible to second guess his Denul kill, so that the lovers can reveal down the track.

I am actually sort of curious as to why ansible has Denul as his top choice, considering how much heat D'rek has gotten on thread.

[Path-Shaper]

Well, he did go ahead and change.

Eloth, on 23 April 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

Update:

Kill Ampelas, if he's lynched, kill Denul

Eloth, on 23 April 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

Hope I didn't fuck myself there. Amp wants to take a look at me and I'm going to respond with the most obvious scum response - kill the fucker. Tiam/Denul can keep swinging dicks and so can Lock/Shadow. As long as I haven't misjudged Denul's play/intentions and Amp doesn't have a stupid fucking BP...hopefully this goes well.

[Path-Shaper]

Amps final words to PS

Ampelas, on 23 April 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 23 April 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

its mostly gut, he's been constantly catching my eye but I can't pin it down firmly why, every day so far he's done something or been involved in somethings that's made me think, somethjngs just not right.

But shadow came off very scummy to me yesterday so that's holding me back now

My gut screams at me to vote Mac every time he posts. Gods, the SPG. Need to try and look past it but it is so hard

Ampelas, on 23 April 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

Lock is D'rek right?

Edit: Also, you should probably resolve before we totally fill thread with junk

Edit edit: D'rek or Starling

Ampelas, on 23 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

We need to have a Cookie Mafia. Not sure how it'd work, choc chip vs ginger nuts? An independent triple choc chip wildcard?

I don't even know what this means...

[Path-Shaper]

Catching up on the Lover's convo

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 02:35 AM, said:

Yeah, that is weird. I actually like Eloth's comments and Amp summary though, for whatever reason I get a town vibe of off that whole thing. Maybe it's the long sections of discussion with floating ideas around rather than aggressively pushing a case. Just doesn't sound like scum to me. I will push on that warlord thing and see what comes up, though.


As far as our short list goes, IMOs:

I've already barked up the Rikkter tree.

Shadow has plenty of hate already, and frankly deserves it. That back-and-forthness with the vote on Korabas, and Okral's point about scum explaining how their mind has been changed is a good one (not that town don't do that, too).

I'm still uncertain about Tiam. Sometimes he seems really scummy sometimes not.

Bek is still inno-seeming in my books... something about how he reacted to the trains on day 2 and 3 that I don't really recall but at the time made me feel strongly that he isn't scum.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

Ampelas, Eloth, Rikkter, Shadow, Tiamatha.

I'm not sure how Bek got into my previous list - they were definitely around when Korabas revealed. I think I was working off Shadow's list and they had put their name in there - now why would they do that?


I'm thinking either Rikkter or Shadow, but I'll have to do some reading up.

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

Shadow did that because Shadow.

I'm going to try and wind up Tiam a bit with some not-entirely-baseless-but-still-silly jabbing, ie the 4-symps slip-up thing, and see what sort of reaction I can get from him. Still not sure what to think of him at this point, though in general I would expect scum to be more go-with-the-flow than Tiam and his constantly coming back to me thing.

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

This is one of those games where I just want to lynch everyone but you

[Path-Shaper]

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

This is one of those games where I just want to lynch everyone but you

Yeah, I'm having the same issues. Worst is that feeling that focusing on Rikkter and Shadow is EXACTLY what scum want me to do...

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

What do you think of Shadow's 'lynch me, whatever' post? Not the first time they've expressed that.

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

He expressed it as a "lynch me tomorrow, but first Korabas" bit. Then he started saying Korabas reveal can't be true. I wonder if that was intended to make him look inno but after we actually got the Korabas CF he would say that things had changed if it came up. Could be a scum ploy. On the other hand, Shadow doesn't really seem to be playing craftily enough for me to have much faith that he would be doing ploys like that.

Lock, on 23 April 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

He expressed it as a "lynch me tomorrow, but first Korabas" bit. Then he started saying Korabas reveal can't be true. I wonder if that was intended to make him look inno but after we actually got the Korabas CF he would say that things had changed if it came up. Could be a scum ploy. On the other hand, Shadow doesn't really seem to be playing craftily enough for me to have much faith that he would be doing ploys like that.

lol, true.

I'm unfortunately going to be away from the thread for a couple of hours. My vote isn't set in stone, and I will be back before timeout. In the meantime, I'll leave you to find something super-incriminating and completely-convincing on someone. Anyone

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

Ah, I see, he has a new lynch-me post (those comments were for the old one).

It's tough... if he is really as apathetic as he seems he could just as easily be town or scum and doesn't care about the game enough. Generally most people get more into the game when they are scum, but I can't be sure that would be the case for him.

Probably better to look elsewhere today, though. If Shadow is the scum and he wins after that sadsack post it's not much of a scum win anyways.

[Path-Shaper]

Denul, on 23 April 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Honestly, Tiam's failure to understand a very easy 4 vs 3 difference is actually pretty scummy in my book. He was hounding on it way too much, IMO. If when he comes back he keeps doing so, I am ready to pin him as scum in my book and not let up.

Also if he doesn't show up before the day times out

Killer is sittin' pretty

Eloth, on 23 April 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Lock is getting jumpy with me now so I'm gonna let him stew a bit till the WIFOM consumes him. And hey, if I get lynched after this many days, I'm ok with that. Maybe GL can bring it home.

[Messremb]

Dammit, I didn't even get to the cookie jar. Sorry Khell, I did try.

Ironically enough posting from my phone in bed...

[Path-Shaper]

Eloth, on 24 April 2014 - 04:17 AM, said:

P-S, question:

If I am lynched, for example, and GL takes over my role, does a kill order go through on that night? Either one that I've specified, or does GL have a provisional for any night that he might suddenly become the killer due to my lynch? Or will I just CF as Kenshiro, no NK, and the game goes on, and GL gets to kill the next night (if he survives)?

Just curious, because this could set us back a whole game day and odd numbers are worse than even (currently at 6 town, 2 scum). Basically...if there's no NK if/when I get lynched, that's an additional FOUR game days that GL has to stay alive to win, not including the day where I end up getting lynched. We're so fucked.

Eloth asked this and I just realized that I didn't address this in my OP here in SH.

It was always going to be the case that if the original Kenshiro was lynched, the NK would go through anyways (Galayn Lord rises up and performs the kill anyways without another provisional being necessary). I didn't do this for balance so much as that it's consistent with the original source material. Kenshiro always gets the crap beaten out of him, but then rises from the ashes and wipes everybody out.

After the first Ken is lynched, if the second Kenshiro is also lynched, that ends the game and the kill does NOT go through.

[Ampelas]

Path-Shaper, on 23 April 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 23 April 2014 - 10:12 PM, said:

We need to have a Cookie Mafia. Not sure how it'd work, choc chip vs ginger nuts? An independent triple choc chip wildcard?

I don't even know what this means...

I've spent the morning planning it out. We're running about 2 hours behind schedule in the audit thankfully - means at the current rate I need to average about a second a slide.

[Path-Shaper]

I love how ST's mind works, but he hasn't hit paydirt.

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

There are two players in this game who seem to have exactly equivalent thought processes to mine. It's uncanny - whenever I see something written by Bek Okhan or Lock I think to myself "it could totally have been me saying that".

I guess the question I have to ask myself is whether I am behaving in a manner that it would make sense for scum to emulate. It has certainly worked for all three of us - no serious pressure from anyone all game.

Okral Lom, on 24 April 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

I'm really suspicious of the number of 'in detail' excuses that people are throwing out to explain why they haven't been around. I remember there used to be a subset of scum players who would lean quite heavily on that sort of excuse to disguise from the fact that they were actually sitting their spamming F5 and letting the innos hang themselves. The problem is that there are so many different players who've done it that it doesn't really narrow down the field all that much .

[Gnaw]

Path-Shaper, on 23 April 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I am actually sort of curious as to why ansible has Denul as his top choice, considering how much heat D'rek has gotten on thread.

I'm dying to find out why he targeted me.