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The Russia Politics and War in Ukraine Thread

#1021 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 07:59 PM

Tajikistan invaded Kyrgystan (both are CSTO members). Kyrgystan is about to declare martial law and mobilization, if Tajiks don't stop advancing.

Armenia has declared that CSTO is useless, b/c it won't assist them against Azeri aggression.

Russian sphere of influence is collapsing at a spectacular rate. Now we just need to see a collapse in Syria, and/or Central Africa.

Meanwhile, UAF apparently cleared the eastern half of Kup'yans'k (meaning, we control several crossings over the Oskil now) and now we got opportunity to push E into Luhans'k Oblast- at least up to the Krasna river which covers the Kreminna-Svatove-Troits'ke line. The latter is important, b/c it's a border town that's on the last rail line from Belgorod blast to Luhans'k-- once this (1-lane) rail line is cut, there's no further supplies from N of the RU-UA border, and all logistics have to be re-routed through Rostov Oblast in the E.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 16 September 2022 - 08:04 PM

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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#1022 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 10:14 PM

 Werthead, on 16 September 2022 - 04:32 PM, said:

Narendra Modi publicly rinsing Putin in front of the international press is certainly an unedifying sight (well, for Putin, anyway). Putin whingeing unconvincingly that the invasion of Ukraine hasn't been a complete clusterfeck and refusing to admit defeat.

Apparently Wagner Group has been sending new recruits to Ukraine with the advice not to "sleep with locals or livestock."

In the meantime, the Russian lines around Lyman seem to be crumbling.


Sorry, not getting what you mean by "rinsing"? Google is giving me many wild variants.

@Ment
WTF Taj invaded Kyrg?

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 16 September 2022 - 10:15 PM

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#1023 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 11:49 PM

 Tsundoku, on 16 September 2022 - 10:14 PM, said:

 Werthead, on 16 September 2022 - 04:32 PM, said:

Narendra Modi publicly rinsing Putin in front of the international press is certainly an unedifying sight (well, for Putin, anyway). Putin whingeing unconvincingly that the invasion of Ukraine hasn't been a complete clusterfeck and refusing to admit defeat.

Apparently Wagner Group has been sending new recruits to Ukraine with the advice not to "sleep with locals or livestock."

In the meantime, the Russian lines around Lyman seem to be crumbling.


Sorry, not getting what you mean by "rinsing"? Google is giving me many wild variants.

@Ment
WTF Taj invaded Kyrg?

"Rinsing" probably means he's publically telling him off- as in, "making him come clean"

Yeah, Azeris are shelling Armenia again, and Tajikistan invaded Kyrgystan. They've got some serious beef over their Fergana Valley border, since that's about the only non-mountanous area for both states. And the Uzbeks control most of it, but there's a whole constellation of exclaves between the 3.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#1024 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 12:22 AM

Ta.

Enclaves just seem like a recipe for major future problems (see the former Yugoslavia). Get rid of them.
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

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#1025 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 12:25 AM

 Tsundoku, on 17 September 2022 - 12:22 AM, said:

Ta.

Enclaves just seem like a recipe for major future problems (see the former Yugoslavia). Get rid of them.


I mean... you either got to resettle people to clean out the border, or end up with with compactly living minorities in your border regions that share more affinity with your neighbour state than with your own. Either way, it's troublesome.

If you got something like an EU going, the borders matter a lot less; but not everywhere in the world's gonna be like that.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#1026 User is offline   Primateus 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 01:07 PM

Are we getting close to a point where the whole idea of Russian power has been amply demonstrated to be so much of an illusion that maybe we should consider removing them as a permanent member of the UN security council?
Screw you all, and have a nice day!

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#1027 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 02:43 PM

 Primateus, on 17 September 2022 - 01:07 PM, said:

Are we getting close to a point where the whole idea of Russian power has been amply demonstrated to be so much of an illusion that maybe we should consider removing them as a permanent member of the UN security council?

I guess they can veto that. Or China will. But a revision to USA, China, EU, Japan and India makes perhaps more sense than the current composition. Just never going to happen.
Not least bcause the EU is not a souvereign country of course.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 17 September 2022 - 02:50 PM

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#1028 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 02:49 PM

 Mentalist, on 17 September 2022 - 12:25 AM, said:

 Tsundoku, on 17 September 2022 - 12:22 AM, said:

Ta.Enclaves just seem like a recipe for major future problems (see the former Yugoslavia). Get rid of them.
I mean... you either got to resettle people to clean out the border, or end up with with compactly living minorities in your border regions that share more affinity with your neighbour state than with your own. Either way, it's troublesome. If you got something like an EU going, the borders matter a lot less; but not everywhere in the world's gonna be like that.


Yup, resettle them all. Straight swap. A bit of pain now to avert a lot more later. Frankly, if you identify as a member of Nation A, but are living in Nation B, and both don't like each other - you move. It's the height of obstinacy and sheer bloody-mindedness, daring your neighbours to take a swing. Which they will.

Hell, I'd like to go further and redo a lot of borders to not have stupid salients into other areas. Nice clean borders thank you. Or as clean as can be.

 Primateus, on 17 September 2022 - 01:07 PM, said:

Are we getting close to a point where the whole idea of Russian power has been amply demonstrated to be so much of an illusion that maybe we should consider removing them as a permanent member of the UN security council?


That permanent membership of the UN Security Council shit needs to be abolished, or at the very least the veto.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 17 September 2022 - 02:50 PM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#1029 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 03:03 PM

 Primateus, on 17 September 2022 - 01:07 PM, said:

Are we getting close to a point where the whole idea of Russian power has been amply demonstrated to be so much of an illusion that maybe we should consider removing them as a permanent member of the UN security council?


The most annoying thing is that, unlike China, there was never a formal General Assembly Vote to even let Russian Federation into the UN, much less to give them a SecCouncil spot.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#1030 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 03:17 PM

Russian tank crew surrenders in return for sandwiches. Apparently they'd had no food for three days. Well, apart from HIMARS bars.

There is at least a reasonable possibility this war could end tomorrow if Subway agrees to get involved.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 17 September 2022 - 03:17 PM

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#1031 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 09:58 PM

Something weird going on in Kherson city, near the train station.

Looks like Russian forces firing on one another. Some suggestions it's a staged provocation, others that Russian forces have fired on one another (some Russian forces in the area are reportedly negotiating a retreat or surrender, others that the Chechens tried to seize a train to evacuate and have been stopped).
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"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
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#1032 User is offline   stone monkey 

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Posted 18 September 2022 - 12:45 AM

If you're interested - you may not be - here's the latest video from Perun; who I think is doing the Lord's work on analysing the War. He primarily comes at it from a Planning, Logistics & Economics position. He, sensibly enough, keeps quiet about it, but imo he's definitely professionally involved in Military Planning in some fashion.

His videos are often not short, and this one is longer than usual.

If an opinion contrary to your own makes you angry, that is a sign that you are subconsciously aware of having no good reason for thinking as you do. If some one maintains that two and two are five, or that Iceland is on the equator, you feel pity rather than anger, unless you know so little of arithmetic or geography that his opinion shakes your own contrary conviction. … So whenever you find yourself getting angry about a difference of opinion, be on your guard; you will probably find, on examination, that your belief is going beyond what the evidence warrants. Bertrand Russell

#1033 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 19 September 2022 - 11:52 AM

At the moment Ukrainian forces have been geolocated in Bilohorivka, 7 miles west of Lysychansk, capturing it in an apparent surprise advance on an axis the Russians were not expecting. Some reports that Russian forces in the immediate Lysychansk area had been fed into the Soledar-Bakhmut front to the south, despite protestations that Lysychansk was no longer secure. There's been repeated fighting in the refinery towns just SW of Lysychansk for months and Lysychansk, unlike Severodonetsk, is vulnerable to a counter-attack because it doesn't have a large river defending it.

The advance to the NW is stalled at Lyman, but Ukrainian consolidation of the lines to the NW after the fall of Izyum means that Ukrainian forces can possibly bypass Lyman to the north and then cut it off to force a surrender or a negotiated withdrawal. Some Russian Telegram sources are now complaining that the northern sectors of Luhansk Oblast are vulnerable because Russia is diverting reinforcements to Kherson and south to reinforce the minor gains around Bakhmut and they could lose the entire area. Russian media is also taking a line that especially the Luhansk People's Republic's military forces have fought badly and let down the entire Russian side and maybe should be abandoned, which would be quite something. If Russia is even thinking of writing off Luhansk, than Donetsk can follow and then...why the hell are they even in Ukraine in the first place and what have they given 50,000 lives for?

This post has been edited by Werthead: 19 September 2022 - 11:54 AM

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"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
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#1034 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 September 2022 - 12:59 PM

 Werthead, on 19 September 2022 - 11:52 AM, said:

If Russia is even thinking of writing off Luhansk, than Donetsk can follow and then...why the hell are they even in Ukraine in the first place and what have they given 50,000 lives for?


Stop! Stop! Stop! Apply "safe", take two steps back and place the logic on the ground.

Seriously, if logic/reason/"common" sense, whatever you want to call it was ever applied at any point over the last 8 years ... we wouldn't be at this point.

Actually that goes for most of human history. It's generally the triumph of that particularly lethal toxic mix of greed and stupidity over decency and reason.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 September 2022 - 12:59 PM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#1035 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 19 September 2022 - 02:00 PM

 Werthead, on 19 September 2022 - 11:52 AM, said:

At the moment Ukrainian forces have been geolocated in Bilohorivka, 7 miles west of Lysychansk, capturing it in an apparent surprise advance on an axis the Russians were not expecting. Some reports that Russian forces in the immediate Lysychansk area had been fed into the Soledar-Bakhmut front to the south, despite protestations that Lysychansk was no longer secure. There's been repeated fighting in the refinery towns just SW of Lysychansk for months and Lysychansk, unlike Severodonetsk, is vulnerable to a counter-attack because it doesn't have a large river defending it.

The advance to the NW is stalled at Lyman, but Ukrainian consolidation of the lines to the NW after the fall of Izyum means that Ukrainian forces can possibly bypass Lyman to the north and then cut it off to force a surrender or a negotiated withdrawal. Some Russian Telegram sources are now complaining that the northern sectors of Luhansk Oblast are vulnerable because Russia is diverting reinforcements to Kherson and south to reinforce the minor gains around Bakhmut and they could lose the entire area. Russian media is also taking a line that especially the Luhansk People's Republic's military forces have fought badly and let down the entire Russian side and maybe should be abandoned, which would be quite something. If Russia is even thinking of writing off Luhansk, than Donetsk can follow and then...why the hell are they even in Ukraine in the first place and what have they given 50,000 lives for?

The orcs were supposedly told to hold Lyman at any cost. Though it's probably a stalling tactic, while they rush whatever they can to set up a new defense along the Krasna river (Kreminna-Svatove-Troits'ke) to protect their last, single-lane railway from Belgorod Oblast' to Donbas. Losing it means all their supply routes need to be rerouted through Rostov Oblast first.

Of course, if the surfacing rumours that the UAF is already in Lysychansk have any credence (the video of Bilohorivka was released yesterday, meaning it was secured at least 3 days ago, and we've had rumors of UAF being in the area and even crossing the Donets' there over a week back, so it's not THAT farfetched), then if they can cross into Severodonets'k and Rubizhne, then this line to keep the UAF from advancing eastwards from Kharkiv becomes pointless, Rubizhne is already to the E of it, on the same (N) bank of the Donets'

While I do not expect an immediate collapse in this region, in the mid-term, holding Luhans'k Oblast' N of the Donets' isn't viable without major manpower advantage. So if the UAF is able to regain Lysychans'k, or the entire agglomerations (including Severodonets'k and Rubizhne), then the "Battle of Donbas" is largely back to the positions in May. Except the orcs will have degraded about 75% of their standing army and lost their ability to threaten encirclement via Izyum. And, obviously, the UAF now has the resources to hold and defend Kup'yans'k, which it lacked at the offset of the war. And the Ruscist's overwhelming advantage in artillery is reduced via HIMARS strikes.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#1036 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 03:38 PM

Looks like Putin is going to make a speech this evening.

The current thinking is that he is going to confirm the Duma law changes that make resigning from the army mid-operation much harder, and also confirm the referendums in the occupied territories despite the conditions for those referendums being simply irrational. People cannot leave their homes to vote in Kherson with missiles flying over their heads in both directions. Kherson is now contested territory, Donetsk still is and Luhansk is about to become contested again.

The smart money is also on a martial law declaration in the border areas and maybe making official this plan to recruit 50,000 soldiers from prisons. Full mobilisation I can't see flying, but perhaps some kind of expanded partial mobilisation of maybe 100-200,000 "fresh" troops. What the hell he is going to arm them with is unclear.

The US and its allies have also made it clear that if there is a big escalation on the Russian side, then the gloves will come off on what equipment can be supplied to Ukraine, and there's been some recent moves it looks like to unlock sending Abrams and Strykers to Ukraine.

Turkey looks like it's decided to more stridently take the Ukrainian side, cutting off Russian payments via Turkey's own credit systems and maybe expanding military support.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 20 September 2022 - 03:38 PM

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"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
- Bruce Campbell on how to be as cool as he is
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#1037 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 04:01 PM

'Putin Accused of Sending Serial Killers and Cannibal to War

[...] Kremlin’s latest recruitment tactic in the war on Ukraine is something out of her “worst nightmares.”

Yevgeny Prigozhin—the head of [...] Wagner Group—has been taking trips to Russian prison camps in order to enlist convicted criminals [...] according to accounts from military analysts and videos that have emerged on Telegram from Russian prisons.

[...] targeting some of Russia’s “worst criminals.”

“Putin’s plan is to recruit at least 50,000 convicts and Prigozhin, who is an ex-convict himself, has already sent more than 3,000” inmates to Ukraine, including “serial murderers, robbers and at least one cannibal,” [...]

“Originally, Wagner grabbed mostly those convicted for homicide[...] and robbery[...] But now, their fishing net takes everybody in, including man-eaters. [...]”'

Russia Accused of Sending Serial Killers and a Cannibal to Fight the War in Ukraine
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#1038 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 07:14 PM

Some Russian Telegram channels panicking of a renewed Ukrainian push in Kharkiv.

The Vostok battalion on the front in Kherson is in a bad way. Telegram messages from its CO saying they are under daily shelling, HIMARS and mortar attack, along with GRADS attacks at night, and they're receiving no artillery or aviation fire support. Their units are being degraded with little sign of replenishment.

It looks like Putin cancelled his speech. Unconfirmed rumours the head of the Russian Central Bank tried to resign (again) and he had to convince her not to. The Russian economy has also taken an absolute pounding today at just rumours of a partial mobilisation.

Some Duma members have suggested there will be no mobilisation, but the border areas may be put under martial law because of the security situation.
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"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
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#1039 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 08:49 PM

We can have coup yet?
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#1040 User is offline   Werthead 

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Posted 20 September 2022 - 09:30 PM

Looks like the Russian position in Lyman is collapsing. The Ukrainians appear to have entered the town from the north-west and south-west and other forces have pushed across to cut it off from the east. Russian Telegram messages reaching Kharkiv levels of panic.
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"Try standing out in a winter storm all night and see how tough you are. Start with that. Then go into a bar and pick a fight and see how tough you are. And then go home and break crockery over your head. Start with those three and you'll be good to go."
- Bruce Campbell on how to be as cool as he is
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