[Cause]

I recently re-read Alexander: The Virtues of war, and The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield. I find that I enjoy both books immensely not only for their narrative but also for their insights into ancient history and the ancient methods of war. War fascinates me because of the power it has had in shaping our world. the impetus it provides for technological advancement and because I have a strong belief that I could never be a soldier. I cant imagine the bravery, I often want to say stupidity, that compelled men to march onto spears, run at machine guns or trade volleys of gunfire with the foe in the proper upstanding tradition. I can't comment for either books overall accuracy but I know I have also enjoyed his other books such as Gates of Fire.

So while I can thoroughly recommend all his books I am also looking for fresh fodder to read. I plan to investigate an author called Scott Odell who has a blurb in the back of Pressfield's book but would be interested to hear any recommendations from you as well. If anyone could recommend a fictional book or memoir/biography that covers ancient times or the famous commanders such as Alexander, Caesar or Napoleon I would be grateful.

This post has been edited by Cause: 03 February 2014 - 06:51 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

I once read the stand alone novel "Pride of Carthage" by David Anthony Durham. I remember really enjoying it but it was a long time ago so I dunno if it would stand up to how I remember it now. It follows the Barca family (primarily Hannibal but also his brothers) and their attempt to sack Rome by crossing the Pyrenees with the elephants etc. Like I said I remember liking a lot so it might be worth looking at!

[Macros]

are you looking for acurracy or entertainment?

Theres a wealth of historical fiction out there, if you enjoy the ancient period, Simon Scarrows Eagle series are straightforward sword and sandals choppery.
Conn Igulden has a passable series dealing with Julius Ceasar (he does make historical notes at the end to cover his many deviations) entertaing but the 5th book is very weak imo.


Alternatively you could go for the Epersian Expidition by Xenophon or The Histories by Herodotus. Heavy going in places though.

[Cause]

Im looking for a merger of the two. Using Steven Pressfield as an example his book about Alexander is both entertaining in the sense of telling a story and describing exciting battles but also manages to cover the campaigns Alexander undertook, the size and working of the army and give me the reader some insight into how the Macedonians saw the world. It is by no means an exhaustive treatise but I learned something and was curious enough to do some research of my own later.

I don't want to just read a book about a random squad of roman legionaries killing people.

Though in the end a book of quality tells, anything that is a great read is a book I want to read

[Morgoth]

Persian Fire by Tom Holland might fit the bill. Though it is more generally about the Persian Empire, the available sources means a lot of the focus is the different invasions of Greece.

[polishgenius]

It's not quite what you're looking for, but worth mentioning: I raved about it recently, but while it's total fantasy in its actual story, Mary Gentle took a Masters degree in War Studies while researching Ash: A Secret History, and it really really shows.


As for understanding the mindset of the soldier etc- is more modern stuff okay with you? Because Matterhorn, by Karl Marlantes, is one of the best books I've ever read and does exactly that for the Vietnam war. Unsurprisingly, as while it's fictional, it's heavily based on things the author actually went through.

[Andorion]

Cause, on 03 February 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

I recently re-read Alexander: The Virtues of war, and The Afghan Campaign by Steven Pressfield. I find that I enjoy both books immensely not only for their narrative but also for their insights into ancient history and the ancient methods of war. War fascinates me because of the power it has had in shaping our world. the impetus it provides for technological advancement and because I have a strong belief that I could never be a soldier. I cant imagine the bravery, I often want to say stupidity, that compelled men to march onto spears, run at machine guns or trade volleys of gunfire with the foe in the proper upstanding tradition. I can't comment for either books overall accuracy but I know I have also enjoyed his other books such as Gates of Fire.

So while I can thoroughly recommend all his books I am also looking for fresh fodder to read. I plan to investigate an author called Scott Odell who has a blurb in the back of Pressfield's book but would be interested to hear any recommendations from you as well. If anyone could recommend a fictional book or memoir/biography that covers ancient times or the famous commanders such as Alexander, Caesar or Napoleon I would be grateful.

Try reading Bernard Cornwell's Azincourt. Also Ross Laidlaw's Attila The Scourge of God.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

You might be interested in the works of Bernard Cornwell, Conn Igulden, Simon Scarrow, Robert Low, and Giles Kristian. They all write military-focused historical fiction. If you'd like specific recommendations, I'd be happy to provide them.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

They've already been suggested but Bernard Cornwell and Conn Igulden would be my top picks. Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles are particularly brilliant in my opinion.

For historical fiction with fantasy thrown in (might not be your cup of tea but worth a mention) David Gemmell's Alexander books and the Troy trilogy may be worth a try.

[Werthead]

David Gemmell's Troy Trilogy is worth a look. He has the best, realistic explanation for the Trojan Horse gambit that I've ever seen.

Paul Kearney's Macht Trilogy is set in a secondary world, but it is based very closely on the Anabasis by Xenophon, chronicling the march of 10,000 Greek mercenaries into Persia to help fight in a civil war only to be marooned hundreds of miles behind enemy lines and having to fight their way home.

Bernard Cornwell is probably the best for the sheer variety of the periods he covers. His Warlord Chronicles is set in Dark Ages Britain and provides a plausible way that the story of King Arthur could have really happened, given the sociological and military upheavals of the time. It's, by far, his best work as well. The Saxon Series covers a somewhat later period. Azincourt is a decent single-volume work on the Battle of Agincourt. The Sharpe books are set in the Napoleonic Wars and are pretty entertaining, even if some of the later prequels shatter plausability into a thousand pieces ("Wait, Major Sharpe, you were at both Trafalgar and Waterloo and never mentioned it until now?"). The Starbuck Chronicles are set during the American Civil War. He also has other series and single novels set at other times. If you set out to read every book he's written, it would take some considerable amount of time. He's both prolific and reasonably good; even his worst novels, written in a hurry for money, are still passable and his best are among the very best historical fiction has to offer. He's occasionally mooted writing fantasy as well, but hasn't done it so far (he and GRRM have a mutual appreciation thing going on and apparently Martin's been trying to talk him into it).

Conn Iggulden is the Kevin J. Anderson of historical fiction. Avoid like the fecking plague.

George MacDonald Fraser's Flashman series is very, very good. It's intermittently military fiction - most of the books deal with a military campaign of some sort, but a couple don't - but it's an absolutely superb account of the 19th Century British Empire from the POV of a fictional character. Apart from Flashman himself, almost every single character is a real person (or, on occasion, other fictional characters borrowed from 19th Century novels) and it's extraordinarily historically accurate, with Fraser sometimes pointing out real illustrations or paintings of the event and which person in the painting is Flashman. It's also quite funny.

[QuickTidal]

Jack Whyte's CAMULOD CHRONICLES are slower, but filled with accurate military stuff, late Roman Empire to Arthurian Britain. And they are fantastic reads.

THE SKYSTONE
THE SINGING SWORD
THE EAGLES BROOD
THE SAXON SHORE
METAMORPHOSIS: THE FORT AT RIVER'S BEND
METAMORPHOSIS: SORCERER

UTHER (side running book that occurs during the timeline of THE EAGLES BROOD, but from Uther's POV and fills in some big gaps)

CLOTHAR THE FRANK (Intro Lancelot)
THE EAGLE (Fall of Arthur)

He spends oodles of time discussing metalworking, saddle making, cavalry and infantry tactics, battle camp design, recon, swordsmithing, ect.

One of my fave series ever, and well worth your time.

[Andorion]

You could also try Anthony Riches. His empire series is about an auxiliary cohort in the Roman Empire. There are some pretty intense battle scenes.

[Gabriele]

Besides Cornwell, whom I totally fourth of fifth there are some others on my hist fic shelves:

Harry Sidebottom's Warrior of Rome series (6 books, finished) and Douglas Jackson's Hero of Rome series (which is also the title of the first book; 4 books out, ongoing) are worth checking out, as are Robert Low's Viking novels (beginning with The Whale Road, 5 books, finished). Ben Kane has written a bunch of Roman novels (about Hannibal and Spartacus, among others) as well, though he's not fully up on my favourite shelf with the others I mentioned. I haven't read Christian Cameron yet; he writes Greek-based hist fic. Scott Oden's standalone Men of Bronze is also a good read.

A different breed - much more epic in scale, but focussing more on politics and relationships than battles - is Colleen McCullough's Rome series (beginning with First Man in Rome, 7 books, finished). The latter books are about Caesar. She's doing a bit much hero worship at times and relies heavily on that old gossip Suetonius as source, but they books are a nice read overall, esp. if you want to spend quite some time in Ancient Rome.

If you want later times, check out Sharon Kay Penman for epic / semi-biographical novels about the Plantagenets, and James Aitcheson (Norman conquest from Norman POV) and James Wilde (from Saxon POV) for a more military oriented take, both with finished trilogies. Robert Low has also written a trilogy about Robert Bruce.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 03 March 2014 - 08:22 PM

[Gabriele]

Werthead, on 20 February 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Conn Iggulden is the Kevin J. Anderson of historical fiction. Avoid like the fecking plague.

Amen. His research sucks, too.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 03 March 2014 - 08:25 PM

[Macros]

I don't get the beef with poor presentation of facts in historical FICTION if I wanted a history lesson Id go buy a text book. If you have issues with an authors writing ability that's fine (on conn igulden I'll say that his Mongol books are way ahead in quality over his roman stuff especially the final books about octavious) but he never claims to be laying down any facts and just to make sure he tells you at the end of every book that there were massive liberties taken with the story.

anyway, back on topic, @Gabrielle, I've got the sidebottom books and have read the first... 3 I think, I haven't been blown away by them, is there a change in pace later in the series? (one thing that really irritates me in historical fiction, and sidebottom does a lot of it, is when Latin words are dropped in in italics, like everytime theyre used, just jars me from what I'm reading)

[Abyss]

Pressfield's GATES OF FIRE is probably the bestest modern retelling of the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. Hint: heavy infantry, no loincloths.

Probably a little dated now, but Larry Bond's WAR OF 2020 is a nifty spec mil story about American superhelicopters fighting in South Africa.

Can't go wrong with a little old school war, Clancy's RED STORM RISING, and his first few Jack Ryan books, are pretty awesome even on the reread.

[Gabriele]

Macros, on 03 March 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

anyway, back on topic, @Gabrielle, I've got the sidebottom books and have read the first... 3 I think, I haven't been blown away by them, is there a change in pace later in the series? (one thing that really irritates me in historical fiction, and sidebottom does a lot of it, is when Latin words are dropped in in italics, like everytime theyre used, just jars me from what I'm reading)

I never really noticed that, but I don't think it changes in the later books. And Sidebottom keeps adding the odd wee history lesson - not something I mind, but I can see that it slows the pace for some readers. Jackson and Low are faster paced in comparison, imho, though since I count War and Peace among my favourite novels, I'm perhaps not the best judge.

[Macros]

I don't mind facts and stuff being worked in, I enjoy learning, its just everytime I saw familia I wanted to scream at the book that I got the point on the roman family group including more than just the mother father and kids, just tell us then refer to them as the bloody family. Similar with dominus and other words, stop italicing shit, it draws the eye and jars me. Might just be me
I think I have book four at hime, I might give it ago anyway, cheers.

for a very superficial look at Romes navy and its inception try John Stacks Rome books, I forget all the titles but its always 'something' of Rome, nearly sure the first one is ship of Rome.

[Gabriele]

The italics thing could be the publisher's decision, though. What I don't like is to have thoughts put in italics like I'm too damn stupid to tell those from actual dialogue.

I'll better be careful with italicised Latin words in my own NiPs then.

[Macros]

It would cost you dearly in my review scores, I'm a world famous opinion influencer