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Oh aye, some kind of financial transactions are needed to keep an empire running, how ever we were discussing the power of a bank. We saw what the Union did to the Mercers. Where do you think all that Money and power went? Back to the Union and was then dished out to who ever it suited the council or Valiant and Balk.
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
My issue with Abercrombies worldbuilding Spoilers for The First Law trilogy and Best Served Cold.
#22
Gothos 
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Posted 17 January 2014 - 12:45 PM
I wouldn't compare Gurkhul to North Korea, mate. Maybe to the USSR, but not NK - NK never was nor will be a world superpower. Gurkhul is more or less the most powerful nation in the world at the moment. Also, slavery and "absolute" rule of the Emperor (really Khalul) doesn't mean they're some orcish horde that exists only as cannon fodder for the heroes to carve through.
From what we can tell, Gurkhul is rather advanced. It's rather rich. And officially the power is the Emperor, not the Prophet, and the distinction is important.
You see, I think you're miscalculating a bit about people. They're all great for the IDEA of a higher power, but bringing that power close to hand and ruling over you is something entirely different. If Bayaz tried to hold power personally he wouldn't be seen as divine, he'd be a devil, a demon, an unknowable and unfathomable being with no relation to his subjects.
From what we can tell, Gurkhul is rather advanced. It's rather rich. And officially the power is the Emperor, not the Prophet, and the distinction is important.
You see, I think you're miscalculating a bit about people. They're all great for the IDEA of a higher power, but bringing that power close to hand and ruling over you is something entirely different. If Bayaz tried to hold power personally he wouldn't be seen as divine, he'd be a devil, a demon, an unknowable and unfathomable being with no relation to his subjects.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
#23
Morgoth
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Posted 17 January 2014 - 02:02 PM
Maybe Apt, on 17 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:
Oh aye, some kind of financial transactions are needed to keep an empire running, how ever we were discussing the power of a bank. We saw what the Union did to the Mercers. Where do you think all that Money and power went? Back to the Union and was then dished out to who ever it suited the council or Valiant and Balk.
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
The Roman empire too were dependent on a steady flow of cash. Financing a war was incredibly expensive. Again, I think you have a somewhat mistaken idea of how nations functioned back in the day.
The Caliphates were no different, and they are the historical inspiration of the Gurkish one would think.
Take good care to keep relations civil
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To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#24
Obdigore
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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:03 PM
Maybe Apt, on 17 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:
Oh aye, some kind of financial transactions are needed to keep an empire running, how ever we were discussing the power of a bank. We saw what the Union did to the Mercers. Where do you think all that Money and power went? Back to the Union and was then dished out to who ever it suited the council or Valiant and Balk.
Quote
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Quote
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
Slaves are, generally, a poor form of labor, unless you are doing low-intelligence/mass produced work. Slaves don't think or they are beaten. They are generally barely paid enough to keep going and will only do what is absolutely required of them. Especially conquered ones that don't agree with your religion/culture/empire. (Egypt was... different).
And the bigger the Empire, the greater the monies that must be spent on supplies, and functionaries, and corruption, and military to secure it. If you don't think the Emperor is going to move to consolidate his power and diminish that of Khalil after the defeat by the Union, I don't know what to tell you (assuming the Emperor isn't overthrown, of course).
Remember that the Envoy that Glokta beheaded was from the Emperor, not Khalil, and shows a distinct schism forming there. The politics of such an empire would need to be written about by Abercrombie before we could even guess that the Empire is as monolithic as it might seem from what we have seen of it. Maybe the Emperor was giving Khalil just enough rope to hang himself and his followers? If the attack won, the Empire rules the Union. If it fails, the Emperor can point out that Khalil pushed and pushed for it and was wrong. Absolutely wrong.
Even the Empire is working to control the strength of Khalil and his Eaters.
Acting like they are unstoppable is still a mistake.
Monster Hunter World Iceborne: It's like hunting monsters, but on crack, but the monsters are also on crack.
#25
zenMichael
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Posted 17 January 2014 - 03:58 PM
Briar King, on 15 January 2014 - 01:22 AM, said:
I have no clue what TLDR stands for
Usually I've seen it as tl;dr - "too long; didn't read."
Although for this post, for me, it was "Transformers liker; didn't read" : )
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Ice on Mars: www.quiptracks.com
Realms Remembered: A chronological read-through (DR) of all the Forgotten Realms novels (youtube.com/rolereviewsal)
#27
Abyss
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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:30 PM
Maybe Apt, on 17 January 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:
Decepticon!
Fixed.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
#28
Overactive Imagination
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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:40 AM
I think what I didn't like about Abercrombie is his writing style and the lack of depth or really interesting things in his books. I think he knows they lack depth though as I seem to remember him comparing them to Big Macs or something like that.
I don't mind there not being tons of fantasy stuff.
Oh and one thing I remember felt strange which is related to world building... when Bayaz and Ninefingers and co were travelling to that island or far away place to collect some artifact to help them destroy evil or whatever the fuck, one chapter ended with them just getting on the boat and then they were immediately on the island. That seriously threw me off like I thought a whole chapter was mistakenly not printed. I was expecting some sort of journey to happen.
I don't mind there not being tons of fantasy stuff.
Oh and one thing I remember felt strange which is related to world building... when Bayaz and Ninefingers and co were travelling to that island or far away place to collect some artifact to help them destroy evil or whatever the fuck, one chapter ended with them just getting on the boat and then they were immediately on the island. That seriously threw me off like I thought a whole chapter was mistakenly not printed. I was expecting some sort of journey to happen.
This post has been edited by Overactive Imagination: 21 January 2014 - 07:43 AM
#29
Gothos
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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:33 AM
That island is pretty much right off the coast from where they got the ship, more or less. Not much content for a sea journey.
It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.
#30
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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:16 AM
First off let me say I think these books were terrible. The reveal that the 'hero' was in fact the biggest egomaniac ever was nice but you started to see it coming. He is in fact too evil, some of his choices are illogical. His wasted year searching for the seed made him look a fool. The magic, the eaters, the demons, the makers vs magic etc all poorly explained.
That said I just wanted to point out one thing. You cant dig money out of the earth! The spanish empire failed because it tried to just that. They controlled the biggest silver mine in the world and had an army of indian slaves to mine it to death. All that they did was flood the world with tons of silver, so when they tried to hire soldiers or buy food with silver everyone said we know you have so much so I want more than usual. Thus inflation which had been pretty much stagnant in that period of time went ballistic. Silver mines are worth money sure, but they need to be mined at a speed that matches supply with demand.
Maybe Apt, on 17 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:
Oh aye, some kind of financial transactions are needed to keep an empire running, how ever we were discussing the power of a bank. We saw what the Union did to the Mercers. Where do you think all that Money and power went? Back to the Union and was then dished out to who ever it suited the council or Valiant and Balk.
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
Valiant and Bank control the Union because they have a finger in every pie and behind the bank is a very scary man. The Union is built around the power of Valiant and Balk and the debts and secrets they hoard. That stuff doesn't work against a Theocracy where the central power just eats you if they disapprove. Think of what Kim Jong-Un recently did to Chinas man in North Korea. There is no limits to what they can do against anyone or anything because they are not reliant on a votes or public opinion.
Furthermore, like the Roman Empire and its silver mines, the Gurkish has "Mountains made of Gold" which is of course an exaggeration but the point is they are actually digging money out the earth. Their finances are not merely based on taxes and trade. Slaves are a great and cheap form of labor too.
That said I just wanted to point out one thing. You cant dig money out of the earth! The spanish empire failed because it tried to just that. They controlled the biggest silver mine in the world and had an army of indian slaves to mine it to death. All that they did was flood the world with tons of silver, so when they tried to hire soldiers or buy food with silver everyone said we know you have so much so I want more than usual. Thus inflation which had been pretty much stagnant in that period of time went ballistic. Silver mines are worth money sure, but they need to be mined at a speed that matches supply with demand.
