[Andorion]

Egwene, on 15 April 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Andorion, on 15 April 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Get a Kindle. In the long term its worth it. You can carry around a lot of books. Most importantly for somebody like you, you can search within books, so that saves a lot of time for looking up quotes and stuff.

Oh I agree that Tolkien's deification has hurt the fantasy genre. Whenver you abondon criticality regarding anything you are causing harm. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy reading reading SE, Richard Morgan, Matthew Stover, Jemisin, Max Gladstone etc and why I want to read Glen Cook. Which is why I don't like Terry Brooks. But having said that, I think we shoudl keep in mind that Tolkien is not responsible fo rwhat posterity did with LotR. Hating the author and the book for what other people used them for is counter productive and also prevents you from reading and enjoying a great work of literature

We are probably not that far apart in our opinion. I don't dislike LotR (or it's author) by any means. The trilogie just doesn't grab me in the way the Malazan books do, although I did like a lot of the world building and I absolutely loved the films. I just strongly object to the monopoly which the rest of the literary world accords him and to him being called the de facto best fantasy author. Until we, the real fantasy readers tell the outside world that, no, fantasy has got more to offer than just LotR, the genre will be looked down upon. We need that top-layer of more than one author, and a variety of different styles to get more readers interested and to make the rest of the world take note.

Going back to GotM... did you make the connection between the officer who gave a speech to the Bridgeburners on behalf of Tayschrenn and was subsequently killed and a chapter later Toc telling Paran that his clawmaster had been garrotted a couple of days earlier? I am sure, I totally missed that on my first read

Yeah I connected it. This time. I missed it on two reads. Which is worrying as GotM is a pretty easy aread as Malazan goes. Clearly more Easter Eggs to come in the later books.

[Vaddon Ra]

[quote name='Apt' timestamp='1389011820' post='1104867']
Does the series get better? Oh yes, the second and third book are by all accounts the high point of the series (others might claim it is the Fifth),

I claim it's the sixth

[Vaddon Ra]

Oh I agree that Tolkien's deification has hurt the fantasy genre. Whenver you abondon criticality regarding anything you are causing harm. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy reading reading SE, Richard Morgan, Matthew Stover, Jemisin, Max Gladstone etc and why I want to read Glen Cook. Which is why I don't like Terry Brooks. But having said that, I think we shoudl keep in mind that Tolkien is not responsible fo rwhat posterity did with LotR. Hating the author and the book for what other people used them for is counter productive and also prevents you from reading and enjoying a great work of literature
[/quote]

We are probably not that far apart in our opinion. I don't dislike LotR (or it's author) by any means. The trilogie just doesn't grab me in the way the Malazan books do, although I did like a lot of the world building and I absolutely loved the films. I just strongly object to the monopoly which the rest of the literary world accords him and to him being called the de facto best fantasy author. Until we, the real fantasy readers tell the outside world that, no, fantasy has got more to offer than just LotR, the genre will be looked down upon. We need that top-layer of more than one author, and a variety of different styles to get more readers interested and to make the rest of the world take note.





I dont think LOTR to read is that gripping in terms of relatable characterisation; it's very much a product of it's time, written extremely well in terms of academic writing and has birthed the high fantasy mega genre,..... that being said I cared a whole hell of a lot more wathing LOTR than reading it due to it feeling, sadly, out of touch with truly in depth personalities; exceptions being Boromir and Gollum, neither of whom seem to be anyones favourite characters XD
The problem with LOTR and the perspective people have of it being "the best" is simply timeliness (and oh my I almost quoted the final page of sodding Way of Kings then >.<) it did the big fantasy mega story first... it paved the way and so will be remembered and revered above all the others.

Much in the way that now GRRM having had a massive impact on the genre, having such a huge presence due to being a good writer and having his books televised, and televised well, will be heralded as far and away the greatest fantasy author... which is just not true! He's good, although Tolkein poetically and technically was far superior, GRRM has made an epic series with grit and shades of grey... However it, as with LOTR, is only considered on a plateau because of it being done first.

Ok im losing my train of thought here... if the creator of this thread hates Gardens im sure none of us will be surprised, or really care, SE expects no less, his is a work you either fanatically defend or dismiss and it really never calls for anything mid ground... in fact I don't think I've ever met someone who has read and reread Malaz and not fully loved it... It's always interesting that the reasons the thread author disliked Gardens are ones I find most charming

Anyway Malazan Empire forever... all else is worth less than nothing...

Including Game of Thrones

and books by Brandon Sanderson

and Wheel of Time or whatever

[Vaddon Ra]

Mr Knightmare, on 07 January 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I made this thread to hear what people like about this series because I was obviously not getting it.

All I got is people telling me how it's the most amazingly deep and awesome series ever made because it features a gajillion billion character on thousand different continents doing stuff that you're no supposed to understand because apparently what Erickson considers as "spoilers"every decent author with his head out of his own ass considers necessary infodump and that I must read everything at least 5 times before I'm able to get anything.

No mentions of intriguing storyline, no mentions of character development or story elements or interesting themes that will come up or a hint of what it to come no it's all about the size of it or people telling me to "yeah well I' m so smart that I got everything on my first read you should leave it!"

And honestly how could you tell me any of those thing because probably none of you know what you even read so there is no way to tell me anything.

Frankly if "size" is the only thing it has and that size involves a million pointless lifeless characters doing "stuff" with no clear direction I think I will move to other series because it's apparent that this book series is only for hipsters who don't want to like the "mainstream" stuff so they pretend that they like Erickson' terrible writing to appear cool in crow by talking about this series that no body understand but they totally do because they keep a fucking diary while reading it.

Good day everyone you shall not see me again.

Well, even though you have gone for good I'll still reply. I feel like a lot of fantasy readers (especially the nerdier, gamer variety ) <--- I partake occasionally, love to passionately throw out mini reviews and words such as "epic" "badass" "gods...demigods....mega swordfights" as if that alone should be enough to draw you in and destroy what, clearly, is a well though out opinion of a book you haven't particularly enjoyed.

I myself was drawn into Gardens of the Moon due to it's descriptions of said superfluously powerful, ascendant characters, and stayed drawn in with bated breath for the moment those characters acted... I come very much to fantasy from a love of large scale video games and movies (for escapism purposes) so for me, initially, malazan was something I could read, with tension building to a climactic finale. The character I loved to hear about was the oft unseen and, hinted at, Anomander Rake, whose physical description drew me in... I had found a fulcrum for my escapist fantasies...

However I stayed with Malazan for far better reasons than MEGA HUGE SORCERY BATTLES HURR HURR.

Dead house gates provided a much clearer cut story, and although part of a large sequence was very contained in it's own tale and had both a defined path and definite conclusion. It is written most prominently from the perspective of an old, weary historian who has chronicled a bloody and tragic history and is thrust into another desperate journey. There are other threads to the tale but Erikson moves from Gardens (which is a little disjointed) into what ends up being a large scale story of empathy, tragedy, humanity, redemption seen through the eyes of, essentially, metaphors made flesh. It is large and if that's not your thing that's totally fine, I was drawn into what it mirrored about human nature and my nature, and how actions can lead to often devastating consequences we don't see...

But for all that it is long, long and sometimes tough and if you hate it, fine, but don't dump all over people who do genuinely love it and claim we don't know why... I know why I loved the series. It made me want to be better it mirrored truths about history and human nature and at the same time gave me the escapism I craved after a hard days work. I love the series and love a lot of the characters... A lot of characters doing things does not equate to them being "pointless" more often than not in our every day lives our minor and "pointless" interactions shape our small and large decisions from which we grow.

If you like your fiction easy to follow go right ahead but try not to put someones passion down simply because they "get it" and you dont sir

[Los Mul]

One thing I have to say is that in GOTM, it did always feel as if things were happening. That's not always the case with fantasy where a lot of it seems to drag on, whereas in Gardens, there was always something interesting going on, and partly in fact due to the way Erikson cuts between POVs.

[benelori]

@Andorion....you are not alone

This thread gave me a taste to reread the series...what are you guys doing to my life?

[Gorefest]

Enriching it, by the sound of it.

[Wolf Ghost]

I had trouble getting into gotm too for a few of the same reasons but I wholeheartedly disagree with the characters being boring. About half way through it all started to open up and make sense to me. Nearly done reading it now and can't wait for what's coming next. I've vowed to only read malazan until I complete it.

[Wolf Ghost]

I'm not a bookworm by any stretch and I didn't find it hard to grasp what was going on and noticed when pov changed. Don't think this story is your cup of tea, try out asoiaf it doesn't have any clichés at all or characters hand plucked from a fantasy fanfic(massive eyeroll)

[iso9001]

I just finished the first book and I can say I liked it! However, I had to do some research on some subjects that I had troubles understanding. One of them is Warrens for example. But this also led to some spoilers in exchange.

Long story short, IMO it is really hard to get the first book without any further readings but it's worth it. After that, the first book became much more enjoyable.

[Andorion]

iso9001, on 25 September 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

I just finished the first book and I can say I liked it! However, I had to do some research on some subjects that I had troubles understanding. One of them is Warrens for example. But this also led to some spoilers in exchange.

Long story short, IMO it is really hard to get the first book without any further readings but it's worth it. After that, the first book became much more enjoyable.

Yeah doing research while reading book 1 is usually a bad idea because of the risk of spoilers. A better option is to post here and ask. The same thing happened to me when I read Book 1 for the first time.

[HoosierDaddy]

In Malazan you aren't supposed to know things. It gets thrown at you and you roll with it and move on. A LOT will be explained. A LOT will never be explained and you just have to pick it up through your reading or make assumptions. Welcome to the world of unreliable narrators of vast quantities.

[Wolf Ghost]

I'm just finishing GotM and in order to force my a.d.d to go away I ordered midnight tides from subterranean press

[Andorion]

Wolf Ghost, on 04 October 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

I'm just finishing GotM and in order to force my a.d.d to go away I ordered midnight tides from subterranean press

Umm you do know you have to read three books in the middle right?

[Gorefest]

Book 2 in the series is Deadhouse Gates, not Midnight Tides. MT is book number 5, I'm afraid.

[Itwæs Nom]

here's whole list of MBotF

[Wolf Ghost]

Andorion, on 04 October 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Wolf Ghost, on 04 October 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

I'm just finishing GotM and in order to force my a.d.d to go away I ordered midnight tides from subterranean press

Umm you do know you have to read three books in the middle right?

That's exactly why I did it. If you read half it would be foolish to not finish it. I tend to start too much and not follow through and I really want to get through malazan, it's a personal goal I must achieve I swore I'll only read it until I finishe it.hsome of my employees highly recommended it ti me

[Wolf Ghost]

The one guy that works for me it's almost a religion to him he has dissected everything since it's beginnig he gets so hype talkin about malazan

[koehkont]

Wolf Ghost, on 08 October 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

Andorion, on 04 October 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Wolf Ghost, on 04 October 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

I'm just finishing GotM and in order to force my a.d.d to go away I ordered midnight tides from subterranean press

Umm you do know you have to read three books in the middle right?

That's exactly why I did it. If you read half it would be foolish to not finish it. I tend to start too much and not follow through and I really want to get through malazan, it's a personal goal I must achieve I swore I'll only read it until I finishe it.hsome of my employees highly recommended it ti me

That's a nice train of logic you have there. But I promise you that reading book 2 after book 1 will have the same effect. It would still be foolish to not finish the series after that.

[10001110101]

I can relate to his point of view. I did after all stop reading GOTM on four different attempts. Then again twice on the second book. Once I plowed through that though it turned into the best series I've ever read. I just yesterday decided to go back and read the series again (or at least the first two books). What I found difficult and tiresome is now a treat. I now understand why I should care about Paran, Quick Ben, Fiddler, etc. Just amazing stuff looking back on it now. I'm GLAD that Erickson didn't spoon feed me. It made the pay off so much more enjoyable. I feel sad for him if he has indeed dropped the series. He'll never know the full depth of Kruppe or Tehol. Nor the intensity of Karsa Orlong and Icarium and on and on with the endless cast. His weaving of plot lines and diverse characters is masterful. Everyone I try to turn on to the series I beg them to read the first three books. I realize it's a huge time investment if you aren't getting the payoff but man I feel sad for those who stop. There's just no way Erickson could have built the characters and told the story in a way that made it easy. This isn't for everyone but for those who stick it out it pays in spades.