[c4ligo]

Hello,

When Aygala introduces Kiska to the Queen of Dreams, we learn that the QoD is named T'riss.

Forge of Darkness spoilers:

Spoiler

In FoD, there is the female Azathanai called T'riss, that brings light to Kurald Galain and then dissapears from the citadel. Am I right to assume, that the QoD is the same Azathanai?

Aygala clames, that the QoD is not an elementary force or like the other gods (when she talks to Kiska about the QoD), but "simply" a very powerfull mage. But the Azathanai are like elementary forces and all (?) elder gods are Azathanai. Is that a contradiction or can we just assume that Aygala doesn't know about Azathanai and Elder gods?

To me, it seems that the QoD is a step down in power from the Azathanai that brought light into darkness and that the two characters also behave differently. Although, one could argue, that having freshly emerged from the Vitr, T'riss in FoD was still a bit "confused"/had to find her personality again and she has done that by the time of SW.

Thank you upfront for clearing things up for me!

[Spoilsport Stonny]

This should probably be moved to the Forge of Darkness forum. I will spoiler this whole comment just in case.

Spoiler

I think your confusion may stem from your interpretation of the SW passage. I will post it here:

Quote

'We are about to speak to one of the greatest powers presently at play here in this world,' she began. 'No – hush. Many name her a goddess but to me she is more, and I suppose less, than that. Not like Burn or Fanderay or Togg. Not some ancient entity or force that has come to represent what we choose to cast upon it. She remains a real living person whose influence transcends others' because she is here, now, and can intervene directly as she sees fit.'

That doesn't necessarily state that she is just a very powerful mage, but that she is not elemental like the Beast Gods, nor does she "represent what we choose to cast upon it", which perhaps could imply some kind of lack of stricture to the bindings that accompany some forms of worship. It could be that the QoD has more power in the real world, which could stem from the real world being Burn's Dream (is the "dream" connection there merely coincidence?). There are other references to the QoD being a very powerful mage; one instance says she accompanied Anomander and Osserc on some merry adventures. So perhaps there is a worldly avatar that she employed (i.e. Keruli), or perhaps its classic SE/ICE misdirection/unreliable source. Agayla is certainly one of the more informed characters we have encountered, but that doesn't make her POV irrefutable.

That said, T'riss is avery important character and she has a hand is just about everything from to the gift of Light to The Whorl to the Stormriders and the Lady to Jakaruku and Ardata. I have never thought that the two weren't one and the same, but I wouldn't ever think that they absolutely are until a reliable narrator says as much.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 02 December 2013 - 02:50 PM

[Grief]

Moved into Forge of Darkness area.

Cheers,

-Grief.

[amphibian]

The connection between Forge of Darkness T'riss and the other versions we see in the main series is not yet made.

The FoD T'riss was apparently someone among the Azathanai who had a full suit of armor and a sword that was discovered near the sliced up dragon belly she crawled out of. She had a partner who also went with her to explore the Vitr, but the fate of the partner and the identities of who these two Azathanai were not made clear (perhaps Erikson keeping that vague until he's ready to address the topic).

T'riss was a name appended to her by a soldier and isn't her actual name, but since she has no memory of anything, it serves well for now. That could change in Fall of Light or the next book. Or it may stay the same.

[Vengeance]

c4ligo, on 02 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Hello,

When Aygala introduces Kiska to the Queen of Dreams, we learn that the QoD is named T'riss.

Forge of Darkness spoilers:

Spoiler

In FoD, there is the female Azathanai called T'riss, that brings light to Kurald Galain and then dissapears from the citadel. Am I right to assume, that the QoD is the same Azathanai?

Aygala clames, that the QoD is not an elementary force or like the other gods (when she talks to Kiska about the QoD), but "simply" a very powerfull mage. But the Azathanai are like elementary forces and all (?) elder gods are Azathanai. Is that a contradiction or can we just assume that Aygala doesn't know about Azathanai and Elder gods?

To me, it seems that the QoD is a step down in power from the Azathanai that brought light into darkness and that the two characters also behave differently. Although, one could argue, that having freshly emerged from the Vitr, T'riss in FoD was still a bit "confused"/had to find her personality again and she has done that by the time of SW.

Thank you upfront for clearing things up for me!

Who says that all of the Azathanai are like elementary forces. I think that perhaps the ones who have been roped into gods by worshipers and shaped that way are slightly elementary in nature. But there is still so much that we do not know about Azathanai that it is hard to say that all of them can represent an element.

It could be that if T'riss who emerged from the Vitr is the same T'riss who is the QOD then her power has waned over the millennium or that she doesn't want to take that kind of direct action again.

[king in chains]

any explanations on why triss harbours leoman?replies appreciated

[Abyss]

king in chains, on 02 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

any explanations on why triss harbours leoman?replies appreciated

He's was a useful tool to have around, similar to Shadowthrone keeping Kalam on ice in the Deadhouse between TB and TCG.

[king in chains]

Abyss, on 03 December 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

king in chains, on 02 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

any explanations on why triss harbours leoman?replies appreciated

He's was a useful tool to have around, similar to Shadowthrone keeping Kalam on ice in the Deadhouse between TB and TCG.

but what has leoman done for her?

[Spoilsport Stonny]

king in chains, on 03 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

king in chains, on 02 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

any explanations on why triss harbours leoman?replies appreciated

He's was a useful tool to have around, similar to Shadowthrone keeping Kalam on ice in the Deadhouse between TB and TCG.

but what has leoman done for her?

As of The Bonehunters, he's done absolutely nothing for her. I believe there is some internal monologue where Leoman talks about being raised as an orphan by a temple of the Queen of Dreams. I can't recall exactly where though. I will look it up.

EDIT: Found it. It was in The Bonehunters; Book 1, Chapter 6.

Quote

Scalissara, Matron Goddess of Olives, the city’s own, cherished protector, now in abject disrepute. Too many conquests she could not withstand, too many gates battered down, walls pounded into rubble. While the city itself seemed capable of ever rising again from the dust of destruction, Scalissara had revealed a more finite number of possible resurrections. And, following the last conquest, she did not return to pre-eminence. Indeed, she did not return at all.

Now, the temple belonged to the Queen of Dreams.

A foreign goddess. Corabb scowled. Well, maybe not entirely foreign, but still ...

The great statues of Scalissara that once rose from the corners of the city’s outer fortifications, marble arms plump and fleshy, upraised, an uprooted olive tree in one hand, a newborn babe in the other, the umbilical cord wrapped snake-like up her forearm, then across and down, into her womb – the statues were gone. Destroyed in the last conflagration. Now, on three of the four corners, only the pedestal remained, bare feet broken clean above the ankles, and on the fourth even that was gone.

In the days of her supremacy, every foundling child was named after her if female, and, male or female, every abandoned child was taken into the temple to be fed, raised and schooled in the ways of the Cold Dream, a mysterious ritual celebrating a kind of divided spirit or something – the esoterica of cults were not among Corabb’s intellectual strengths, but Leoman had been one such foundling child, and had spoken once or twice of such things, when wine and durhang loosened his tongue. Desire and necessity, the war within a mortal’s spirit, this was at the heart of the Cold Dream. Corabb did not understand much of that. Leoman had lived but a few years under the guidance of the temple’s priestesses, before his wild indulgences saw him expelled into the streets. And from the streets, out into the Odhans, to live among the desert tribes, and so to be forged by the sun and blowing sands of Raraku into the greatest warrior Seven Cities had ever beheld. At least in Corabb’s lifetime. The Fala’dhan of the Holy Cities possessed grand champions in their day, of course, but they were not leaders, they had nothing of the wiles necessary for command. Besides, Dassem Ultor and his First Sword had cut them down, every one of them, and that was that.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 03 December 2013 - 05:31 PM

[koehkont]

amphibian, on 02 December 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

The connection between Forge of Darkness T'riss and the other versions we see in the main series is not yet made.

The FoD T'riss was apparently someone among the Azathanai who had a full suit of armor and a sword that was discovered near the sliced up dragon belly she crawled out of. She had a partner who also went with her to explore the Vitr, but the fate of the partner and the identities of who these two Azathanai were not made clear (perhaps Erikson keeping that vague until he's ready to address the topic).

T'riss was a name appended to her by a soldier and isn't her actual name, but since she has no memory of anything, it serves well for now. That could change in Fall of Light or the next book. Or it may stay the same.

I think the connection is clearly there. From the Malazan series we know that QoD and Ardata are sisters and in FoD we hear from someone (Grizzin?) that Ardata and her sister (called something with dreams and princess?) are highly interested in the Vitr. Than some unknown Azathanai steps out of the Vitr and is called T'riss. So from this information I'd say there is a certainty of 99,9% that QoD (malazan series) and T'riss (FoD) are the same. I'm saying 99,9% because it's still Erikson who worte it and 100% is some idealistic thought that can't be reached

[amphibian]

I mean, I believe they're one and the same, but it's possible that something weird happens in between now and the rest of the series.

I do wonder who the other person T'riss went into the Vitr with was.

[buddhacat]

king in chains, on 03 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 December 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

king in chains, on 02 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

any explanations on why triss harbours leoman?replies appreciated

He's was a useful tool to have around, similar to Shadowthrone keeping Kalam on ice in the Deadhouse between TB and TCG.

but what has leoman done for her?

When she finds Leoman coming through the portal in tBH, she says something like "Not who I wanted, so I'll freeze you till I can think of something."
The person she wanted was Corabb (/Dunsparrow), with the connection to Oponn (/Hood), for use in some other scheme, perhaps.