[Jalan]

Well damn. But on the other hand @scenes see I knew we monks couldn't keep our manly hands off each other!

(The peasant girl is irrelevent)

[Jalan]

For the weekend freeze, I assume timer is frozen but the game thread continues as normal?

Or is it no voting until Monday?

[Path-Shaper]

Jalan, on 25 October 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

For the weekend freeze, I assume timer is frozen but the game thread continues as normal?

Or is it no voting until Monday?

Thread continues, timer frozen, I won't be around to count any votes.

[Ghennan]

Dammit.

I think I need to take the weekend to have a think about this.

[Trake]

Hey all, just a quick apology post, RL suddenly got really hectic.

Going to bed now, will try and get caught up tomorrow.

[Path-Shaper]

Wow, you guys were really at it over the weekend

Timer is unfrozen. 36 hours remaining.

7 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.



Players not voted: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

[Hanas]

Haven't caught up since the forum died on me last week, so no firm grasp on content here and now... but a switch from Fanderay to Grasp for the lynch? Meh. Even if I calculate in that I may have seem sympy, the case stunk. As for Grasp, yes, he was wishywashy, but there were better targets. Also, wonder what Trake has to say about Ultama mentioning Jalan as a potential lynch target.
When I did that, the tiger was all happy to call it "the derailment towards an easy target he expected from me".


Finally: Tatts: show some god-damned patience next time, play to your strengths, don't think you know it all, don't start making weird claims that you can't back up and MOST OF FUCKING ALL, don't melt down like Emmenthaler on a leaky nuclear reactor. I didn't want to go out with the meta-stuff (Fanderay's STFU, ASSHOLE at this point is pre-emptively noted) but it was so god-damned clear it was you and that you were inno that not mentioning it would have been hypocritical. Even though you deserved a lynch for the actual play.


I think with Trake, there's a huge skeleton in the closet that we need to discuss as he seems involved in everything.
Jalan seems present a lot but hasn't got much fire and the time I tried, Trake jumped on it. Wonder if that had to do with me as a suspected symp, or with Jalan.
I am also not sure about Lock, who seems to subsistence post, and I don't like Cast for some reason or other - mainly because I have the unsubstantiated impression that he is there when there are vote swings.

[Fanderay]

'ey, peeps.

I've got bandwidth issues at home, so didn't log in at all this weekend, and I've been up since 6:30 AM this morning, and crazy Monday is crazy. I'll try to dedicate some more time to the game later on when things die down a bit, cuz i'm likely gonna be at work late tonight.

[Trake]

Ok, got a little time (looks like it's gonna be a busy week, expect I will be able to keep up though).

So, first:

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

I think with Trake, there's a huge skeleton in the closet that we need to discuss as he seems involved in everything.

I try to be as involved as possible, and to give a broad range of opinions. Why wouldn't I?

I don't consider it the only way of playing town, but I do think that if town are too unwilling to actually put themselves out on thread, or if enough of them avoid doing so, it severely hurts our chances.

This just seems like taking something completely normal and blowing it way out of proportion. It just seems like an artificial attempt to suggest to people that there is or should be some underlying suspicion of me, like my being active is some sort of elephant in the room.

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Jalan seems present a lot but hasn't got much fire and the time I tried, Trake jumped on it. Wonder if that had to do with me as a suspected symp, or with Jalan.

I disagree about Jalan getting very little fire - he's been getting mentioned by a lot of people as suspicious (although without a major train on him). This is why I felt he was an interesting choice for you suddenly decide to try and get lynched, because it looked like you might solely be choosing based upon who you thought was most likely to work as a de-rail. Considering I'd mentioned you as a symp, of course I picked up on it. Any swing lynch, or attempt to swing the lynch, is absolutely worth looking at, particularly given we had very small amount of time left at that stage.

As for standing by Fanderay as being a bad lynch - what would you say if I suggested that, with such a small amount of time left, swinging elsewhere is a worse move regardless, due to the fact that it creates it's own set of confusion and distraction.

Jalan and Cast are pretty notable on the lynch train. Jalan puts it 3-3 where otherwise it would've been 4-2, Cast puts it 4-2 the other way from there.

[Trake]

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Also, wonder what Trake has to say about Ultama mentioning Jalan as a potential lynch target.
When I did that, the tiger was all happy to call it "the derailment towards an easy target he expected from me".

Context is important.

Ultama does talk about Jalan with little time left, after being prompted by Fanderay for his suspicions. I feel that is rather different from this:

Hanas, on 24 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

You know what... let's just vote a coaster. This situation is damned unpleasant, and the mod-kills invite trouble by following too quickly with no info from them. In the current environment I'd rather lynch someone on whom I have absolutely no read whatsoever and who seems to like to keep it that way, despite a decent post count, than lynching someone on who some shades of grey are gathered and who at the least is being discussed.

Vote Jalan.

I'm not even sure how the modkills are an argument for us not voting Fanderay but voting Jalan instead.

Let's vote Jalan because Fanderay is being discussed? That sounds like a great way of getting little information.

I'm tempted to vote Fanderay just based on the fact that there seemed an effort to swing the lynch away from him, it being an actual piece of on thread evidence, not just character speculation.

[Cast]

Trake, on 28 October 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Ok, got a little time (looks like it's gonna be a busy week, expect I will be able to keep up though).

So, first:

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

I think with Trake, there's a huge skeleton in the closet that we need to discuss as he seems involved in everything.

I try to be as involved as possible, and to give a broad range of opinions. Why wouldn't I?

I don't consider it the only way of playing town, but I do think that if town are too unwilling to actually put themselves out on thread, or if enough of them avoid doing so, it severely hurts our chances.

This just seems like taking something completely normal and blowing it way out of proportion. It just seems like an artificial attempt to suggest to people that there is or should be some underlying suspicion of me, like my being active is some sort of elephant in the room.

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Jalan seems present a lot but hasn't got much fire and the time I tried, Trake jumped on it. Wonder if that had to do with me as a suspected symp, or with Jalan.

I disagree about Jalan getting very little fire - he's been getting mentioned by a lot of people as suspicious (although without a major train on him). This is why I felt he was an interesting choice for you suddenly decide to try and get lynched, because it looked like you might solely be choosing based upon who you thought was most likely to work as a de-rail. Considering I'd mentioned you as a symp, of course I picked up on it. Any swing lynch, or attempt to swing the lynch, is absolutely worth looking at, particularly given we had very small amount of time left at that stage.

As for standing by Fanderay as being a bad lynch - what would you say if I suggested that, with such a small amount of time left, swinging elsewhere is a worse move regardless, due to the fact that it creates it's own set of confusion and distraction.

Jalan and Cast are pretty notable on the lynch train. Jalan puts it 3-3 where otherwise it would've been 4-2, Cast puts it 4-2 the other way from there.

Just thought I'd point out that I put it at 4-3, not 4-2, and that there was somewhere around only an hour left in Day. Given my sad lack of ability to participate as much as I want to this game, I wasn't sure I would be able to make it back on time to drop a vote should it be necessary.

[Trake]

Cast, on 28 October 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

Trake, on 28 October 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

Ok, got a little time (looks like it's gonna be a busy week, expect I will be able to keep up though).

So, first:

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

I think with Trake, there's a huge skeleton in the closet that we need to discuss as he seems involved in everything.

I try to be as involved as possible, and to give a broad range of opinions. Why wouldn't I?

I don't consider it the only way of playing town, but I do think that if town are too unwilling to actually put themselves out on thread, or if enough of them avoid doing so, it severely hurts our chances.

This just seems like taking something completely normal and blowing it way out of proportion. It just seems like an artificial attempt to suggest to people that there is or should be some underlying suspicion of me, like my being active is some sort of elephant in the room.

Hanas, on 28 October 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

Jalan seems present a lot but hasn't got much fire and the time I tried, Trake jumped on it. Wonder if that had to do with me as a suspected symp, or with Jalan.

I disagree about Jalan getting very little fire - he's been getting mentioned by a lot of people as suspicious (although without a major train on him). This is why I felt he was an interesting choice for you suddenly decide to try and get lynched, because it looked like you might solely be choosing based upon who you thought was most likely to work as a de-rail. Considering I'd mentioned you as a symp, of course I picked up on it. Any swing lynch, or attempt to swing the lynch, is absolutely worth looking at, particularly given we had very small amount of time left at that stage.

As for standing by Fanderay as being a bad lynch - what would you say if I suggested that, with such a small amount of time left, swinging elsewhere is a worse move regardless, due to the fact that it creates it's own set of confusion and distraction.

Jalan and Cast are pretty notable on the lynch train. Jalan puts it 3-3 where otherwise it would've been 4-2, Cast puts it 4-2 the other way from there.

Just thought I'd point out that I put it at 4-3, not 4-2, and that there was somewhere around only an hour left in Day. Given my sad lack of ability to participate as much as I want to this game, I wasn't sure I would be able to make it back on time to drop a vote should it be necessary.

You were voting Fanderay before, making it 3-3.

Ideal participation or not, I'd hope you'd remember your own votes.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 24 hours remaining.

7 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.



Players not voted: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

[Ghennan]

So, here's what's been bothering me about the previous day's voting. Fanderay starts getting some heat for being connected to Hanas. Hanas arrives, flails a bit, and then starts a totally new train on a "coaster".

Hanas, on 24 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

You know what... let's just vote a coaster. This situation is damned unpleasant, and the mod-kills invite trouble by following too quickly with no info from them. In the current environment I'd rather lynch someone on whom I have absolutely no read whatsoever and who seems to like to keep it that way, despite a decent post count, than lynching someone on who some shades of grey are gathered and who at the least is being discussed.

Vote Jalan.

Now, without going in to my personal vendetta about low-poster witchhunts (seriously, voting low posters gives us no information!), Hanas accuses Jalan because Hanas has no read on him. But if we review Jalan's posting up to this point, he has asked a lot of questions and shared a few ideas about Ultama's crazy posting, suggested he is a symp and voted MO, which doesn't really look like coasting to me.


Next, Fanderay arrives, and to be fair he can't really defend himself against the case and votes, because it's almost entirely based on Hanas' behaviour. But his next action is to start yet another train, and I'm not entirely sure what his justification is.

Fanderay, on 24 October 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Everyone's being such busy worker bees.

just for the hell of it, here's the most cumulatively scummy player in my books. (after Ultama, but the problem with his case is that it is at least partially grounded in MO, and MO is now a perma-question-mark)

Ghennan, on 22 October 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Wow, that post is ringing so many bells for me. The self-pity, the 'acceptance' if we lynch him, the 'lynch me if you have to' schtick. It's making me want to vote for him more.

I'll be around on and off for the next few hours, but I'll vote now to see if we can get something going.

vote ultama

he never came back after that.

Ghennan, on 24 October 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

So, after a catch-up, I'm not really sure why Jalan stuck in my mind, but on a re-read I don't find him particularly scummy. And Cast has posted basically nothing. Monok's modkill has kind of taken the wind out of my sails, I was fairly sure we were on to something with Monok and Ultama, and suddenly it's all up in the air again.

Grasp is ringing some bells for me, and that drive-by vote was pretty scummy, but I need more time to articulate what it is that bothers me, and right now I need to go to bed.

I'm leaving my vote on Fanderay, because I think the link is interesting, and I need more time to decide how I feel about Ultama.

Vote Fanderay.

Night all!

well, he's yet to come back. we shall see

remove vote

vote Ghennan

So apparently I'm scummy because on day one I said I would return and I didn't, and then on day two I voted for him?

This then leaves the vote count looking like this:

Path-Shaper, on 24 October 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 2 hours and 37 minutes remaining.


9 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake, Ultama

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

2 votes Fanderay: Ghennan, Grasp
1 vote Jalan: Hanas
1 vote Ghennan: Fanderay
1 vote Ultama: Jalan

Players not voted: Cast, Lock, Trake, Ultama

That is a pretty big voting split, where previously there had only been one target suddenly there are four. Then later Ultama arrives, makes a case against Grasp and votes for him, and Fanderay immediately jumps on that train, and suddenly it takes off.

So this leaves me wondering if maybe Ultama was the symp after all. Up unitl that point, Ultama had said basically nothing about Grasp. But he returns to see that Fanderay is getting a bit of heat, and provides a new target that a few other people have already indicated suspicion about. Fanderay can't jump on Hanas' vote because they have already been linked, but Ultama's vote is a safe bet because they haven't been linked, and that way they can get an alternate train running.


This is seriously scummy.

Vote Fanderay

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 23 hours and 26 minutes remaining.

7 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

4 votes to lynch, 4 votes to go to night.


1 vote Fanderay (Ghennan)


Players not voted: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake

[Trake]

Ghennan, on 28 October 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

So apparently I'm scummy because on day one I said I would return and I didn't, and then on day two I voted for him?

My first thought on this was that Fanderay also said he'd return on day one and then didn't, which I didn't like. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point, and I didn't like you doing it either.

I also feeling you're simplifying the point he does have, particularly by saying that day two is just OMGUS. Drive by voting and leaving restricts train options, and gets a vote down without looking like being really dead set on the lynch and having to commit to arguing for it. It's pretty noticeable when it happens twice in a row.

I also think that connecting Fanderay to Ultama as a symp is somewhat unnecessary. I'm not saying it's impossible, or even particularly unlikely. But at the same time, it hardly has to be the case for Fanderay to hop on Grasp. It makes sense just as a self-preservation vote. While it could be more, looking for scum in actions that do make sense is a bit of a labyrinth.

[Fanderay]

Ghennan, on 28 October 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

So, here's what's been bothering me about the previous day's voting. Fanderay starts getting some heat for being connected to Hanas. Hanas arrives, flails a bit, and then starts a totally new train on a "coaster".

Hanas, on 24 October 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

You know what... let's just vote a coaster. This situation is damned unpleasant, and the mod-kills invite trouble by following too quickly with no info from them. In the current environment I'd rather lynch someone on whom I have absolutely no read whatsoever and who seems to like to keep it that way, despite a decent post count, than lynching someone on who some shades of grey are gathered and who at the least is being discussed.

Vote Jalan.

Now, without going in to my personal vendetta about low-poster witchhunts (seriously, voting low posters gives us no information!), Hanas accuses Jalan because Hanas has no read on him. But if we review Jalan's posting up to this point, he has asked a lot of questions and shared a few ideas about Ultama's crazy posting, suggested he is a symp and voted MO, which doesn't really look like coasting to me.

Next, Fanderay arrives, and to be fair he can't really defend himself against the case and votes, because it's almost entirely based on Hanas' behaviour. But his next action is to start yet another train, and I'm not entirely sure what his justification is.

Fanderay, on 24 October 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Everyone's being such busy worker bees.
just for the hell of it, here's the most cumulatively scummy player in my books. (after Ultama, but the problem with his case is that it is at least partially grounded in MO, and MO is now a perma-question-mark)

Ghennan, on 22 October 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Wow, that post is ringing so many bells for me. The self-pity, the 'acceptance' if we lynch him, the 'lynch me if you have to' schtick. It's making me want to vote for him more.

I'll be around on and off for the next few hours, but I'll vote now to see if we can get something going.


vote ultama

he never came back after that.

Ghennan, on 24 October 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

So, after a catch-up, I'm not really sure why Jalan stuck in my mind, but on a re-read I don't find him particularly scummy. And Cast has posted basically nothing. Monok's modkill has kind of taken the wind out of my sails, I was fairly sure we were on to something with Monok and Ultama, and suddenly it's all up in the air again.
Grasp is ringing some bells for me, and that drive-by vote was pretty scummy, but I need more time to articulate what it is that bothers me, and right now I need to go to bed.

I'm leaving my vote on Fanderay, because I think the link is interesting, and I need more time to decide how I feel about Ultama.

Vote Fanderay.


Night all!

well, he's yet to come back. we shall see

remove vote

vote Ghennan

So apparently I'm scummy because on day one I said I would return and I didn't, and then on day two I voted for him?

This then leaves the vote count looking like this:

Path-Shaper, on 24 October 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

It is Day 2. 2 hours and 37 minutes remaining.


9 players alive: Cast, Fanderay, Ghennan, Grasp, Hanas, Jalan, Lock, Trake, Ultama

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

2 votes Fanderay: Ghennan, Grasp
1 vote Jalan: Hanas
1 vote Ghennan: Fanderay
1 vote Ultama: Jalan

Players not voted: Cast, Lock, Trake, Ultama

That is a pretty big voting split, where previously there had only been one target suddenly there are four. Then later Ultama arrives, makes a case against Grasp and votes for him, and Fanderay immediately jumps on that train, and suddenly it takes off.

So this leaves me wondering if maybe Ultama was the symp after all. Up unitl that point, Ultama had said basically nothing about Grasp. But he returns to see that Fanderay is getting a bit of heat, and provides a new target that a few other people have already indicated suspicion about. Fanderay can't jump on Hanas' vote because they have already been linked, but Ultama's vote is a safe bet because they haven't been linked, and that way they can get an alternate train running.


This is seriously scummy.

Vote Fanderay

On phone, cuz bandwidth at home iz deaded. Next two weeks'll be a bitch to play,
I'm just gonna straight up say that I didn't "just" jump on Ultama's Grasp train. For those interested enough in the game to actually read and not blindly follow whatever Ghennan tells you you will see that he is misrepresenting me on 2 major points:
1: when I voted him, my reason wasn't "because he leaves and doesn't come back", but rather because both votes he dropped up till then we're put without much explanation on whatever train happened to be in vogue on thread at the time. 2: when I voted Grasp, I didn't "just" vote him. I skimmed the case Ultama made on him. Then I did a re-read. Then I voted. I sure as fuck wasn't gonna be a not-hammer vote on my own train, not when it was based on such shitty reasoning, and not when ppl like Cast were voting for me, without even knowing what the case on me was ( I called him out on that earlier)
So yes, ghennan is lying on a number of points here. Which brings me back to the case I made yesterday.

[Fanderay]

oh, great, double post. mods, delete plz?
Btw, if I post for awhile w/o ever responding to long-ass posts it's b/c the reply Window on my phone doesn't have a scroll function, so it takes for fucking ever to get to the end of the post to start posting a reply

[Fanderay]

trying to get back into the game (I had a VERY long day today, didn't think bout mafia at all), I really need to re-read Lock. But not doing that on phone, so prolly will have to wait till tomorrow

[Ghennan]

Trake, on 29 October 2013 - 12:07 AM, said:

Ghennan, on 28 October 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

So apparently I'm scummy because on day one I said I would return and I didn't, and then on day two I voted for him?

My first thought on this was that Fanderay also said he'd return on day one and then didn't, which I didn't like. But that doesn't mean he doesn't have a point, and I didn't like you doing it either.

I also feeling you're simplifying the point he does have, particularly by saying that day two is just OMGUS. Drive by voting and leaving restricts train options, and gets a vote down without looking like being really dead set on the lynch and having to commit to arguing for it. It's pretty noticeable when it happens twice in a row.

I also think that connecting Fanderay to Ultama as a symp is somewhat unnecessary. I'm not saying it's impossible, or even particularly unlikely. But at the same time, it hardly has to be the case for Fanderay to hop on Grasp. It makes sense just as a self-preservation vote. While it could be more, looking for scum in actions that do make sense is a bit of a labyrinth.

At no point did I say that Fanderay's vote was OMGUS. Unless you were saying that my case on him was OMGUS?

In the first vote, it was day one and not much was happening. For the day two vote, I was around and posting before I left the vote. Plus, I gave justifications for both of them. Calling them drive-by votes is misrepresenting them. Plus, I've been questioning people and sharing my ideas, so I feel it's unfair to say I'm not committing to anything.

I do see what you mean about the connection between Ultama and Fanderay. I found it interesting that he proposed his own train, and then when nothing happened on that he jumped on the next one to be suggested. And particularly interesting that Ultama suggested yet another target with less than three hours in the day. Then again, I'll admit that Ultama was rather inconsistent, and you're right in that it is likely a self-preservation vote.