[Amadaun]

Link to the video.

Okay, this legitimately annoys me. For several reasons. It's a good example of the pressure put on men. And the most uncomfortable ways they react. And part of this is because the website founder really needs some help. And the way women are treated as prizes that "nice guys" deserve to have. And if you don't set off those dopamine reactions in your brain regularly, you're a failure. Right.


#1: I feel pity for the awkward guy who founded it. Poor boy has honest issues - look at the way he's fiddling with that lid as he talks as well as his posture. He's honestly too shy to talk to girls. I'd say he has good intentions, if awkward uncomfortable intentions. He needs more social interaction and possibly some medication.


#2: The man/boy/kid with the long hair - that's a "nice guy" if I've ever seen one. He blames the women for not jumping into bed with him. He blames all the "pretty" guys for getting the women. I get serious creeper vibes from him. I feel pity for him in a different way. That pity involves an urge to reach for pepper spray. *twitch* (Look - people have pretty good instincts for what to avoid. This guy is one of said "AVOID THIS" things.)


#3: The implications that geek guys can't get girls. (Amusing note: One of the "geek guys" is wearing a wedding ring. They talk about his marriage later. He's just as attractive as everyone else, save that he has an awesome hat.)


#4: The "Pick-up Artist" WHAT. Yay for insulting both women and single men. Obviously, the only single men are fat, pimply, geeky outcasts. Men who can't bed women are "genetic outcasts." WHAT. (Best part - the guy is totally shaking as he says this. Either he's really terrified at talking to the female interviewer or he should consider a job as a homosexual Dom. He's a little too into breaking other men.)


#5: "What's the first thing a woman notices? It certainly isn't personality." Answer: Shoes.


#6 You ruined one of my favorite songs, you bastards.


#7: "Women don't like sex...they don't have a high sex drive." HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH- no.


#8: Okay, I'm stopping halfway through after the screaming fury that they shame one of the guys for "feminist" views that he thinks "women are people" so that means he's "brainwashed." Please tell me this is a joke. OH GOD PLEASE.


#9: Okay, I lied, I'm still going. Fat-shaming, Catholic-shaming... The implication from all of them, even the sympathetic ones, that women are a prize to have sex with. Also: Virgin-shaming. Also: Geek-shaming. Also: Creepy-as-hell men. Also: Implications that all geeky, single guys are horrible people....I can't decide if this thing hates men or women more.


#10: Speaking as an owner of a vagina, they're really more annoying than scary or disgusting...if you don't like the look of them, er...it might explain some of the problems you're having picking up women?


#11: Nope, long-haired guy is still the creepiest.


#12 The founder really needs some therapy, poor guy. Massive depression, to the point where you're scared for him. Seriously - not getting laid is not a reason to kill yourself. That guy has deeper issues.


#13 The ex-girlfriend is the only one in the documentary with a good head on her shoulders. She's pretty awesome. "You have a pretty good life" indeed.

[Obdigore]

So why should I watch a 30 minute video about some guy who is too afraid of the opposite sex to do anything about it? I can go to Stormfront and see the same thing, and see a much more unintentionally humorous take on it. What makes this documentary special?

[Una]

@Amadaun, just reading your comments made me mad. I can't stand any more whining about how "nice guys can't get the girl." I skimmed a few parts of the video and all I heard was whining. So I confess I didn't watch the whole thing.

Just watch 500 Days of Summer. At least that was entertaining. And the guy wises up in the end, so you don't stay annoyed with him. I told my brother to watch that movie and see if he can recognize himself. I don't think he has.

[Studlock]

Speaking as the stereotypical 'nice guy', guys you're not getting laid because you're too nice (BAHAHAHA), you're not getting laid because you either lack the social skills to do so or (and this is important) you're literally putting zero effort into your appearance. OR you have way too high of standards (which is not say 'ugly' people and 'not-ugly' people don't hook up or have loving lasting relationships but generally if it's a random hook-up looks are important, and if it's not look to point one). This is a thing I've learned over time, as a younger adult as I am now (I'm 22) but a girl I was attracted told me straight to face the reason why she didn't like me (this was in highschool) and it wasn't because I was too nice. She liked I was nice, it was the reason she hung out with me, but I didn't really take care of myself (depression had a part in that and still does), I was awkward as all hell and I couldn't really talk to people. I still can't hold a conversation about anything less than the the fate of human soul (seriously the worst at 'small talk') but that girl really actually changed my outlook on life. I stopped being self-centered and took into the others viewpoint, I looked at myself and saw I truly didn't give a fuck (no where near the girl who did her hair and make-up and generally put a lot of work into looking good) about how I looked and still excepted people to want me sexual (not to say people who look good should except sex either, just saying if you look good you're more likely to find someone who reciprocates). The video hit me in a lot of places because it reminded me of how I was (and I pretty much hate that person). It scares me that kid's don't have anyone to guide them with this kind of shit.

[Morgoth]

They all need a fast dial to Illy.

[Illuyankas]

WHAT THE SHIT IS THIS

[Amadaun]

Don't forget - there was a Kickstarter to finance a full version. Please do note the names of the funding packages and the funding rewards.

And yeah, it took me several tries to get through the full movie. It's very uncomfortable to watch because I alternated between pity/worry for the founder and the other two guys making my skin crawl.

Look, I'll admit that I'm a solidly single woman, and I don't really get the "MUST GET LAID" mindset that some people have. I especially don't get the people who seem to think that they're owed sex. I once had a guy who hit on me (often) and then blamed his jerkish demeanor on the fact he hadn't had sex for three whole months, with the implication that if I wanted him to be a reasonable human being, I had to sleep with him to earn it. ....yeah, NO.

[Shinrei]

Re: sex drive.

Yes, women can want sexing just as much as guys. What they DONT want as much as guys is to hook up with a complete strangers for a one night stand...every night they can possibly make it happen. It's not the desire for sex that's different, it's that girls tend to be more picky and require more commitment. (read GENERALIZATION)

[Primateus]

Someone actually shelled out 500 dollars for that kickstarter?

[Amadaun]

Shinrei, on 21 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Re: sex drive.

Yes, women can want sexing just as much as guys. What they DONT want as much as guys is to hook up with a complete strangers for a one night stand...every night they can possibly make it happen. It's not the desire for sex that's different, it's that girls tend to be more picky and require more commitment. (read GENERALIZATION)

I'll freely admit that my sex drive is actually pretty minimal, especially compared to my married sisters. And I have enough trust issues (thanks to a nasty relationship) that a one-night-stand is entirely out of the question. I go by the basic rule that if I wouldn't let a guy/girl stick a finger in another orifice (mouth/nose/ear) there's no way I'm going to go with far riskier behavior for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

I'll also freely admit that I do (mentally) judge people who think one-night stands are a good idea. *shrug* I know enough biology to know that one-night-stands are dangerous, and I tend to get pissy when I get attacked for "slut-shaming" when I point that out.

Look, if you want to indulge in casual sex, that's your prerogative. Go right ahead. It's your life, your body, and if you take precautions, more power to you. Whatever. Just don't attack me because I'd rather be single and celibate.

[Morgoth]

Amadaun, on 23 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Shinrei, on 21 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Re: sex drive.

Yes, women can want sexing just as much as guys. What they DONT want as much as guys is to hook up with a complete strangers for a one night stand...every night they can possibly make it happen. It's not the desire for sex that's different, it's that girls tend to be more picky and require more commitment. (read GENERALIZATION)

I'll freely admit that my sex drive is actually pretty minimal, especially compared to my married sisters. And I have enough trust issues (thanks to a nasty relationship) that a one-night-stand is entirely out of the question. I go by the basic rule that if I wouldn't let a guy/girl stick a finger in another orifice (mouth/nose/ear) there's no way I'm going to go with far riskier behavior for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

I'll also freely admit that I do (mentally) judge people who think one-night stands are a good idea. *shrug* I know enough biology to know that one-night-stands are dangerous, and I tend to get pissy when I get attacked for "slut-shaming" when I point that out.

Look, if you want to indulge in casual sex, that's your prerogative. Go right ahead. It's your life, your body, and if you take precautions, more power to you. Whatever. Just don't attack me because I'd rather be single and celibate.

You judge them. Why is it any more deplorable that they judge you? Your reasons to do so seem no more rational.

[Shinrei]

I wasnt judging anyone, I was speaking in general on male/female sex drives. I dont engage in one night stands, nor do I have any problem with people who do.

[Gothos]

Amadaun, on 23 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

holy shit! you poor, poor girl. that's your experience? no wonder you'd rather go celibate.

which is, mind you, probably why women in general don't go looking for casual sex as much as men do - they (mostly) have to do it with guys, and guys by and large suck at sex something wicked. it's not biologically lowered sex drive, it's disappointment and low expectations.

[Obdigore]

I was waiting for some one to come in and try to imply that they are the greatest lover ever, and as it didn't happen I thought we were going to avoid the chest-beating that was inevitable after that comment.

And then you tried to validate that women don't go looking for casual sex like its somehow not completely based on the societies in question.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 24 September 2013 - 08:40 AM

[Puck]

Gothos, on 24 September 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Amadaun, on 23 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

holy shit! you poor, poor girl. that's your experience? no wonder you'd rather go celibate.

which is, mind you, probably why women in general don't go looking for casual sex as much as men do - they (mostly) have to do it with guys, and guys by and large suck at sex something wicked. it's not biologically lowered sex drive, it's disappointment and low expectations.

Now that's some high grade bullshit right there. Saying 'poor girl' just because she's viewing sex more rational than 'omg, I can haz sexs nowz?!' is not the best way to present your opinion. There's such a thing as a lowered, or even non-existent, sex drive in both men and women as much as there is an equal possibility of a high sex drive with both men and women. I, for one, could do without sex for, like, ever. Now let's see what kind of word you find for that.

As to the thread topic, I'm not sure I want to take a look at that video, but I sure have a thing or two to say about so-called 'nice guys'. I used to think some of them are just awkward and such, but that's turned into 'ugh, disgusting'. I've had the opportunity to deal with some by both having one in my immediate circle of friends [I could sing some songs about that one..] and getting slut-shamed by those who got a 'no' from me, because, duh, I wasn't going to jump into bed with them because they deigned to be 'nice' to me. I have no idea why, but I seem to have been attracting their kind like a light bulb attracts insects for a while.

I'm sure there are some legitimately nice guys somewhere in the mass of creepy entitled man-chilred out there. Like, say, that friend of mine I mentioned, who would be pretty much 'normal' if he wasn't so fixated on finally getting a girl and caught up in his one idea of how the perfect girl should be. Now that I think about it, I know quite a few of that kind *sigh*

Other than that, it may be just my opinion, but I think a lot of these 'nice guys' deserve what they get, which is nothing.

[Amadaun]

Morgoth, on 23 September 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Amadaun, on 23 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Shinrei, on 21 September 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

Re: sex drive.

Yes, women can want sexing just as much as guys. What they DONT want as much as guys is to hook up with a complete strangers for a one night stand...every night they can possibly make it happen. It's not the desire for sex that's different, it's that girls tend to be more picky and require more commitment. (read GENERALIZATION)

I'll freely admit that my sex drive is actually pretty minimal, especially compared to my married sisters. And I have enough trust issues (thanks to a nasty relationship) that a one-night-stand is entirely out of the question. I go by the basic rule that if I wouldn't let a guy/girl stick a finger in another orifice (mouth/nose/ear) there's no way I'm going to go with far riskier behavior for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

I'll also freely admit that I do (mentally) judge people who think one-night stands are a good idea. *shrug* I know enough biology to know that one-night-stands are dangerous, and I tend to get pissy when I get attacked for "slut-shaming" when I point that out.

Look, if you want to indulge in casual sex, that's your prerogative. Go right ahead. It's your life, your body, and if you take precautions, more power to you. Whatever. Just don't attack me because I'd rather be single and celibate.

You judge them. Why is it any more deplorable that they judge you? Your reasons to do so seem no more rational.

I'd say that good portion of my judgement is born out of worry. It's a high-risk, low-reward activity, and a lot of our idiot kids don't know or think much about safe sex. I remember an article on BBC I read a while back (can't recall the link...I'll look for it) where it discussed how young Africans were lowering the rate of AIDS by practicing abstinence/monogamy/safe sex - but infections continued to rise in Europe because they were doing the exact opposite.

If your one-night-stands are sufficiently protected (physical dangers) or not done while drunk/stoned/high (mental dangers) - then it's all yours. Do whatever you need to to set off those dopamine receptors. It's none of my business. If you go at it drunk with no condom, I think I'm allowed to point out that it was a bad decision, and a dangerous one. If I'm going to judge people who decide that dancing on a cliff while blindfolded is fun, I'm sure as hell going to be just as concerned for people who risk their lives and wellbeing for sex.

My issue is that I don't like casual sex, and I've had a lot of people freak out at me like my lifestyle automatically attacks theirs. I've been told that I'm broken, or unnatural, or that I must have been abused, or I'm flat-out insane because I made this choice.

Maybe my judgement isn't any better, but I do have rational reasons for my choice. And saying: "Y'Know...CONDOM" shouldn't be considered slut-shaming.

[Amadaun]

Puck, on 24 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Gothos, on 24 September 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Amadaun, on 23 September 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

for (roughly) six minutes of good feelings. If you're lucky.

holy shit! you poor, poor girl. that's your experience? no wonder you'd rather go celibate.

which is, mind you, probably why women in general don't go looking for casual sex as much as men do - they (mostly) have to do it with guys, and guys by and large suck at sex something wicked. it's not biologically lowered sex drive, it's disappointment and low expectations.

Now that's some high grade bullshit right there. Saying 'poor girl' just because she's viewing sex more rational than 'omg, I can haz sexs nowz?!' is not the best way to present your opinion. There's such a thing as a lowered, or even non-existent, sex drive in both men and women as much as there is an equal possibility of a high sex drive with both men and women. I, for one, could do without sex for, like, ever. Now let's see what kind of word you find for that.

As to the thread topic, I'm not sure I want to take a look at that video, but I sure have a thing or two to say about so-called 'nice guys'. I used to think some of them are just awkward and such, but that's turned into 'ugh, disgusting'. I've had the opportunity to deal with some by both having one in my immediate circle of friends [I could sing some songs about that one..] and getting slut-shamed by those who got a 'no' from me, because, duh, I wasn't going to jump into bed with them because they deigned to be 'nice' to me. I have no idea why, but I seem to have been attracting their kind like a light bulb attracts insects for a while.

I'm sure there are some legitimately nice guys somewhere in the mass of creepy entitled man-chilred out there. Like, say, that friend of mine I mentioned, who would be pretty much 'normal' if he wasn't so fixated on finally getting a girl and caught up in his one idea of how the perfect girl should be. Now that I think about it, I know quite a few of that kind *sigh*

Other than that, it may be just my opinion, but I think a lot of these 'nice guys' deserve what they get, which is nothing.

The six minutes is half science and half eye-rolling rant on my ex.

I suppose that I (and Puck) would be currently considered asexual, or perhaps demisexual (only feeling arousal for someone I love). To sum up: Some people love one gender, some love both, some love neither and would rather be alone. *shrug* I was in a relationship with my ex for four and a half years and never felt any sexual attraction to him or any other. (And before people start telling me I should have just left...there's a horrible story there, and I don't want to talk about it.)

Okay, anyway. Being celibate/asexual makes you a prize. Kind of like those hurt/heal fanfics out there. Or the fact that you're hitting the madonna/whore dichotomy. I'm not saying that everyone looks at you like that. I've had quite a few friends who could care less, and my best friend was a fellow celibate. But I still managed to attract guys who thought they could "cure me." Which is just as insulting as being a lesbian and having people try and cure you.

But yes, I do find it hilarious that refusing to have sex makes you a slut. I've gotten a lot of that, too. It terrified 18-year-old me, but now that I'm 30? SCREW YOU JERKS. I'm not a set of boobs and orifices for you.

[Gothos]

Obdigore, on 24 September 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I was waiting for some one to come in and try to imply that they are the greatest lover ever, and as it didn't happen I thought we were going to avoid the chest-beating that was inevitable after that comment.

Keep waiting, I wasn't.

Quote

And then you tried to validate that women don't go looking for casual sex like its somehow not completely based on the societies in question.

Whatever do you mean, sir?

Puck, on 24 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Now that's some high grade bullshit right there. Saying 'poor girl' just because she's viewing sex more rational than 'omg, I can haz sexs nowz?!' is not the best way to present your opinion. There's such a thing as a lowered, or even non-existent, sex drive in both men and women as much as there is an equal possibility of a high sex drive with both men and women. I, for one, could do without sex for, like, ever. Now let's see what kind of word you find for that.

Oh go right ahead and misinterpret in the worst possible way at your leisure, as long as it suits you.
I said poor girl because her comment implies her experience so far has been pretty terrible.
As for "lowered or even non-existent sex drive" - yeah, sure, but you miss my point. I was just saying it's not governed by wether you're male or female.

[Amadaun]

Gothos, on 24 September 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

I said poor girl because her comment implies her experience so far has been pretty terrible.

I'm not saying it hasn't, but...yeah, it's not the only reason for my choices.

And I think from studies there are slightly more non-sexual females than males, but I'm not certain on that. There are a lot more females who admit that they rely only on auto-stimulation, though.

[Puck]

Gothos, on 24 September 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

Oh go right ahead and misinterpret in the worst possible way at your leisure, as long as it suits you.
I said poor girl because her comment implies her experience so far has been pretty terrible.

Yes, of course, because it's always bad sex that's responsible and not a conscious decision or anything of the sort, and there's probably someone out there who can do it better and make it fun again? Right.