[markalex]

Hi to everyone
This is something thats been bothering me so would like it explained by people who understand better than me.Ive just finnished midnight tides and really enjoying theseries but one question still bothers me,in GOM raest seems increadibly powerful taking on 5 dragons and winning,tool saying even rake might not be enough to defeat him.As i understand he wasnt even on top form because most of his power is in the finnest,making the finnest even more powerful??Then how does captain paran who only has a hint of hounds blood flowing through him manage to destroy it?As far as i understand the hounds are powerful but not in raest league as anomander rake thinks nothing of dipatching two of them and hairlock and tattersail nearly took one down.Hope someone cab explain this
Thanks

This post has been edited by markalex: 02 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

[worry]

The finnest isn't destroyed. It's used as the seed for a new Azath house.

[nacht]

Paran just fought the finnest for a little while giving the Azath time to become strong.

Quote

“Cease! You cannot destroy the Finnest. But you have held it. Long enough. The Azath will take it now. Do you understand?”

Paran sagged, the fires within him ebbing. Glancing down at the Finnest, he saw roots and fibrous tendrils rising from the wet earth to wrap themselves around the battered apparition and begin to pull their captive down into the cloying mud. In a moment, the Finnest was gone.

It is the Azath that took the Finnest.

Quote

The roots closed around the creature. It shrieked in sudden terror. “Azath edieirmarn! No! You’ve taken my Finnest—but leave me! Please!”

[markalex]

Thanks for answers but again it still doesnt add up that 5 dragons can get nowhere near raest and are taking a beating yet paran who is not even a full hound can tear the finnest to shreds which is arguably even more powerful than raest himself?"the finnest tried to push him away,and failed.It screamed,flailing its limbs.Paran began ripping it methodically to pieces."
Ok so paran didnt have the power to kill it but even so surely this is like mike tyson getting smashed around the ring by a school girl?

[Puck]

It's been a while and I can't remember the details of the scene, but you have to see the Finnest as something that needs someone to access its power to really come to its potential. This could only be done by Raest and the Azath, and the latter can only use it as a power source, sipping power from it to grow, and only Raest was able to fully utilize it - provided he could have gotten it back.

On its own, the Finnest is only a vessel that's got some basic protective mechanisms, but that's about it. Also, it's a theme that goes through the whole series - no matter ow powerful someone or something is, on the mundane plane of things it can be quite vulnerable.

So yeah, the Finenst cannot be more powerul than Raest, because 1. it contains only a part (even though it's the bigger one by far) of his power and 2. because it has no conscience of its own and thus can never utilize the power it contains.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

markalex, on 02 September 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

...surely this is like mike tyson getting smashed around the ring by a school girl?

Its not like that at all.

The finnest creature tried to enslave Paran's soul. That's how it fought, what it's weapon was. Paran's soul is tainted with the blood of a Hound of Shadow, which cannot be enslaved. So the only weapon that the finnest actually had against him was rendered useless. Then Paran goes apeshit and, using some aspect of the hound's blood power, tries to tear apart the finnest, and that's when Tool stops him. Weakened, the Azath roots then ensnare the finnest-creature and suck it into the ground.

Its not a conventional fantasy fight, I will admit that, but perhaps the finnest underestimated Paran. I would say that it most definitely did at that.I don't think it has as much to do with how powerful the finnest was, but it's approach to attempting to subdue Ganoes.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 02 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

[nacht]

Raest put up a good fight but it is like Tyson facing Buster Douglas followed by Holyfield followed by many more one after another. At the end a sequence like this, a school girl could probably take out Tyson.

Raest takes 3 forms during this sequence, as Jaghut, withing the Finnest and as Marmot.

In Jaghut form, he gives Silanah a good beating. It does not clearly say that the other soletaken dragons suffered a lot too. Before that fight actually finishes (silanah seems to be taking a breather) he is whisked away into Kruppe's dream world.
If your point is that the dragons should have taken out Raest, the fight was incomplete so we dont know what would have happened.
Note that in this fight Raest is using Omtose Phellack against Starvald Demelian.

Once he escapes the dream, he starts manifesting in the Finnest, where he starts battling the young Azath, Tool and Paran.
It is interesting here that Tool is fighting physically. (so maybe OP has no effect on Tool). Initially Paran is driving down by OP but then the Hound powers help Paran resist the OP warren and then he starts attacking the tree like form physically.

At this point Raest escapes again into Mammots body where he takes a beating by Derudan, Quick Bend and Moranth Munitions.

Only then is he taken by the Azath.

I dont think the Finnest has an independent existence. It seems that Raest tried to take control of the Finnest and started fighting the Azath. The Finnest is the source of the OP power.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

nacht, on 02 September 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

I dont think the Finnest has an independent existence. It seems that Raest tried to take control of the Finnest and started fighting the Azath. The Finnest is the source of the OP power.

I am in accord with this.

But i think that the Finnest was not another form that Raest took, but a manifestation of his power that was imbued within the finnest. In jaghut form, he is attempting to reconnect with the finnest, and once he did, i doubt there would be anything that could stop him, except perhaps for Rake. He possessed Mammot after his little visit with K'rul and Kruppe in the dream. But at no point are we shown him taking residence in the finnest. But once the Azath begins to manifest, that is when the finnest appears on the grounds in tree form. In all likelihood it is the finnest itself that attempts to enslave paran. Semantics, yes, but is that not what we are all about?

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 03 September 2013 - 12:36 AM

[worry]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 02 September 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

but perhaps the finnest underestimated Paran. I would say that it most definitely did at that.I don't think it has as much to do with how powerful the finnest was, but it's approach to attempting to subdue Ganoes.

Not it's finnest hour, admittedly.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

worry, on 03 September 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

Spoilsport Stonny, on 02 September 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

but perhaps the finnest underestimated Paran. I would say that it most definitely did at that.I don't think it has as much to do with how powerful the finnest was, but it's approach to attempting to subdue Ganoes.

Not it's finnest hour, admittedly.

Oh you!

[nacht]

Spoilsport Stonny, on 03 September 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

nacht, on 02 September 2013 - 11:23 PM, said:

I dont think the Finnest has an independent existence. It seems that Raest tried to take control of the Finnest and started fighting the Azath. The Finnest is the source of the OP power.

I am in accord with this.

But i think that the Finnest was not another form that Raest took, but a manifestation of his power that was imbued within the finnest. In jaghut form, he is attempting to reconnect with the finnest, and once he did, i doubt there would be anything that could stop him, except perhaps for Rake. He possessed Mammot after his little visit with K'rul and Kruppe in the dream. But at no point are we shown him taking residence in the finnest. But once the Azath begins to manifest, that is when the finnest appears on the grounds in tree form. In all likelihood it is the finnest itself that attempts to enslave paran. Semantics, yes, but is that not what we are all about?

You are very likely right.

The finnest section is after Raest manifests in Mammot. Got thrown off by the finnest displaying tusks. But as you said, once Raest is united with his Finnest, there is probably no stopping him. Divide and Conquer rules.

Quote

A T'lan Imass. Despite its awesome skill with the chalcedony weapon in its hands it was being driven back. Its attacker was a tall, lean creature with flesh like oak. Two gleaming tusks rose from its lower jaw, and it was shrieking with rage.

This post has been edited by nacht: 03 September 2013 - 12:57 AM

[markalex]

Ok thanks i think that answer works for me,the one about being a vessel and not being able to use the power itself.