[worry]

I think he was a phenomenon when he started. He was featured on sooooo many morning shows because of his age, for instance, and got huge publicity.

[Werthead]

Quote

Erikson only on a million with a ten book series?

That was from when TCG was released, so it's probably a bit higher than that now. I have no idea what ICE's figures are. Good enough to keep him being published (Bantam are very harsh about dropping underperforming authors, as we've seen with Kearney), certainly.

Quote

I wonder whats the typical royalty per book sold?

I know at one time it was about 15% on a hardcover and 8% on a paperback and ebook, but that's moved around a lot since. I know GRRM made about $15 million in 2011 alone (when he sold 9 million books), the bulk of that from ASoIaF sales, so someone could do some extrapolating from that.

Quote

I weep for Bakker, Lawrence and Lynch

You can be concerned for Bakker, but then Overlook have said his figures are actually pretty good for a small-press, 'difficult' author. And those are the Overlook figures only, not including the Orbit UK ones, the Penguin Canada ones and so on.

Lynch's low sales are also not too bad considering he only had two books out. The long delay to Book 3 has prevented him from building momentum. If he'd stuck to his original plan, he'd have completed the series by now and his sales would likely be much higher. His launching profile was actually higher than Abercrombie's, so if he'd kept up a similr release schedule he'd have had a shot at being as big.

Don't weep for Mark at all Those 250,000 sales are from his first two books alone. The third will add a lot to that (it already has, as it hit the bestseller lists). His take-up seems to be rivalling that of Abercrombie and Weeks, which is a very healthy place to be in.

Quote

Add my gush of tears to the collective weeping bucket as well.

Gaiman is a hell of a lot higher than 10 million. That's just the last available figures I have for him, but they're from 2008.

Quote

But Elizabeth moon who I'd say is a fairly respected author with something like 20 books only has 100,000 sales?

That's 100,000 sales of the Paksenarrion omnibus in its American edition by itself. That's not counting her many, many other books (including the other Paksenarrion books and the trilogy in its individual volumes), so yeah, easily a lot higher. Again, no harder figures are available.

Quote

Any thoughts on what is usually considered a successful run? How big is a first print run usually? Any idea?

I know that The Lies of Locke Lamora sold out its initial print run of 15,000 copies in tradeback for Gollancz in the UK (and Commonwealth) alone and that was considered to be a very healthy success for a debut novel. IIRC, Red Country sold 30,000 copies in its initial print run for Gollancz alone in something like its first month or so on sale, which constitutes a very successful launch.

Quote

The publisher is in possession of the most complete set of figures and even then, they may not be fully accurate. The rest of us are limited to BookScan and back of napkin calculations, of which Werthead is kinda good at doing.

It's actually rather worrying that publishers and authors don't know how many books they've sold, most notably abroad. One author told me he gets royalty cheques from his various overseas publishers without any information on copies sold. If you know the exchange rate at the exact moment the money went through, your royalty percentage and whether taxes have already been deducted or not, you might be able to make an estimate. But a lot of authors can't be bothered to do that, especially if they've been printed in several dozen countries or more.

[Macros]

I understand the difficulty in obtaining these figures but some of the position and figures strike me as ridiculous.
Gemmell has 30+ book afaik, you tell me that old Steve has equalled him with 10? I cry shenanigans!

also, depressed by 116m twilight sales.

and I think Magaician alone has shipped around 20m units (that was read somewhere, on phone, can not confirm source)

its still ab interesting list, however I feel its incredibly misleading (although you clearly say many authors figures are impossible to gauge accurately) I am curious now how many eddings has sold.

[Abyss]

My reaction to a surprising number of those names was 'who?'.
Then i googled them and realized that i don't care.

[Aptorian]

Abyss, on 03 September 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

My reaction to a surprising number of those names was 'who?'.
Then i googled them and realized that i don't care.

And isn't that the saddest part about best selling authors? It's sort of like the kind of music that gets promoted on the radio. You love the single, then you hear the rest of the album and you wonder how the fuck this artist is selling multiple platinum albums.

I still get angry when I see Trudy Canavans name in a book store.

This post has been edited by Crustaceous Apt: 03 September 2013 - 03:35 PM

[Cause]

Werthead, on 03 September 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

Quote

I weep for Bakker, Lawrence and Lynch

You can be concerned for Bakker, but then Overlook have said his figures are actually pretty good for a small-press, 'difficult' author. And those are the Overlook figures only, not including the Orbit UK ones, the Penguin Canada ones and so on.

I had read about Bakker's low Sales before but I did not realize how bad the situation was. When I heard he had claimed he could not live off his earnings from writing alone I did not believe it. I consider his books some of the finest I have ever read it really is a shame. It seems a 'successful' author is not half as successful as I had thought.

[Aptorian]

I'm curious, how does the Library system work in your countries? I'm namely interested in bigger places like the US, Canada, England, Germany, France, etc.

In Denmark the libraries give you 5 øre (Danish cents) per page you have on the shelves which, even if you are very popular and have more than 10 books to your name, is not even close to being a sustainable income. But we're a population of 5.5 million people. What about English or Spanish books that must be sitting in thousands of libraries? I imagine that if you were getting paid by the page and you were writing 1000 page door stops you might be making a killing internationally.

[Imperial Historian]

In the UK authors are paid per book borrowed. I think it's around 6p per book.

Edit: http://www.theguardi...ary-ebook-loans 6.05p apparently up to a maximum of £6000, and oddly this number is going down, it was 6.29p in 2010.

Authors really don't make much from libraries

Edit edit, and because it's kind of relevant the most borrowed authors in the UK:
http://www.plr.uk.co...p400Authors.pdf

Seems to match werts list somewhat, rowling comes top at no 96, followed by prattchett (unsurprising in the Uk) and stephen king, Meyer is next, and none of the rest even appear from my quick glance.

[amphibian]

In my area of the U.S., libraries buy books and then lend them out for free. The purchase at the beginning is the only slice the author sees money from.

[worry]

Yah, I'm fairly certain that's true of all US public libraries, the theory being that there's a long-term synergy between library, author, and public/consumers that benefits all of the above (which as far as I can tell is born out by the facts, though ebooks seem to have thrown a wrench in the gears maybe).

[Aptorian]

amphibian, on 04 September 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

In my area of the U.S., libraries buy books and then lend them out for free. The purchase at the beginning is the only slice the author sees money from.

worry, on 04 September 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Yah, I'm fairly certain that's true of all US public libraries, the theory being that there's a long-term synergy between library, author, and public/consumers that benefits all of the above (which as far as I can tell is born out by the facts, though ebooks seem to have thrown a wrench in the gears maybe).

This sounds incredible. Especially in America where everyone is so obsessed with getting paid. Do they only pay the "normal" cost of a book or is it a bigger fee like when Blockbuster gets the license to rent out a movie?

[worry]

As far as I know they do not pay any kind of fee in the way video rental places did (feels kinda mean to use past tense there but I'm going with it). They largely pay normal retail prices through book distributors/wholesalers (if appropriate, even bulk rates would apply). They don't even necessarily pay MSRP. But they do definitely pay for the books they lend, which is at least a solid guarantee, and library binding quality books often cost more to start than other bindings. There's all the usual variability of markups and discounts, but in that they don't differ from anyone purchasing a book.

[Abyss]

My library does an ebook and audiobook dl service that operates similar to the basic dead tree book lending. They buy x# licenses, loan them out via software that has a time limit built in, and more or less replicates the dead tree library experience.

I suppose it would be easier to make an illegal copy of a dl than photocopy an entire book, but they are trying to keep up with the tech, which includes a whole series of links to the author, their other books, similar books, upcoming books etc, which arguably also benefits the author even if they don't see a penny for the actual eyeballs-to-pages.

[Werthead]

Quote

Gemmell has 30+ book afaik, you tell me that old Steve has equalled him with 10? I cry shenanigans!

Sadly true. Gemmell's relative lack of sales was well-known during his life: he basically survived from book to book, which is one reason for his prolific output. His main issue was never cracking the US market.

Quote

and I think Magaician alone has shipped around 20m units (that was read somewhere, on phone, can not confirm source)

By itself, MAGICIAN has certainly sold a lot of books. I don't think it's 20 million by itself though, but I could believe it's half of the figure.

Quote

When I heard he had claimed he could not live off his earnings from writing alone I did not believe it.

The overwhelming majority of authors work part-time (or even full-time) and write when they can. Those who make a living from their writing are quite rare.

If Erikson hadn't received such a huge advance for his novels (£650,000), he'd have had to have worked full-time until relatively recently, no question.

[D'iversify]

Werthead, on 04 September 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Quote

and I think Magaician alone has shipped around 20m units (that was read somewhere, on phone, can not confirm source)

By itself, MAGICIAN has certainly sold a lot of books. I don't think it's 20 million by itself though, but I could believe it's half of the figure.

It was identified as one of the 100 favourite books in the UK about a decade back (no. #89, see http://en.wikipedia...._United_Kingdom), so it must have sold a few here.

[Macros]

Well the first copy of magician I ever read was a rewritten enhanced edition ir whatever.
he added like 10,000 words for it, and it was celbrating over 10m sales, and that was quite some time ago (possibly 15 years) and it wa Sa library loan so I don't even know how long ago that edition was released.

Massively shocked Gemmell struggled to shift books when dirge like twilight has tossed out 116m. No accounting for taste as they say.

[D'iversify]

Macros, on 05 September 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Massively shocked Gemmell struggled to shift books when dirge like twilight has tossed out 116m. No accounting for taste as they say.

Agreed - one of the most consistently authors on the market (and a very nice guy, met him at a talk/book signing, was shocked when I heard he had died just a couple of years later). My personal favourite of his is Echoes of the great Song, but that may just be because it was the first of his I read.

[Macros]

I like echoes, but always have a soft spot for legend, first book of his I read.

[Abyss]

D, on 05 September 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Macros, on 05 September 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Massively shocked Gemmell struggled to shift books when dirge like twilight has tossed out 116m. No accounting for taste as they say.

Agreed - one of the most consistently authors on the market (and a very nice guy, met him at a talk/book signing, was shocked when I heard he had died just a couple of years later). My personal favourite of his is Echoes of the great Song, but that may just be because it was the first of his I read.

Macros, on 05 September 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

I like echoes, but always have a soft spot for legend, first book of his I read.

S'funny, ECHOES is actually my least fave of his. Decent book, but it felt rushed and half-realized, the characters even more archetypical that usual for him. DARK MOON did a much better job with a similar end of the world invasion storyline.

On the numbers point, Gemmel has never had massive marketing behind him. The first time i saw any really energy to promo him was unfortunately late with the first TROY book.

[Macros]

Of his standalone stuff Darkmoons my favourite. Face is just awesome
never really got that into his Jerusalem man books.
Troy is my second favourite trilogy of any author (probably tied first tbh)
had I read Troy before hitting the Drenai tales, Legend probably wouldn't have such a hold on me, but then again, it is Druss.

If I ever win the euromillions (I mean a multiple rollover) I want to part finance bringing troy to tv