[Korbal]

So I was rereading FoD last night and stumbled upon an interesting bit, where Korya is having a conversation with the Jaghut Varandas about his series of dolls.
Just as a recap, we know from TCG that the Boles have some sort of relation with the Jaghut whether they be half-blood or something else, this was all but confirmed by Olar Ethil when she made an offhand comment about Amby Bole, calling him a Jhag Bolead.
During Korya's conversation with Varandas, she asks him the name of the series of dolls he's currently working on,
"My latest dolls will seek out a rare, winged rock ape native to the old crags of a desert far to the south. I name this series Nacht."
"And what did you name the series you gave to me?"
"Bolead. But I fear I made too many of them, especially given their flaws."
I guess this explains the inexplicably large amount of Bole brothers and their seemingly vast lack of intellect might be the flaws to which Varandas is referring.

There's also a cool mention of soul-shifting into dolls in this conversation, *cough cough* Quick Ben reference??

[Aptorian]

Korbal, on 14 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

There's also a cool mention of soul-shifting into dolls in this conversation, *cough cough* Quick Ben reference??

Not everything soul-shifting is Quick Ben related. How ever, interestingly, in GotM Quick Ben says (or was that one of the Andii?) that Soul shifting is related to the Andii or Kurald Galain. Most likely this implies that they have experience with the stuff. Then consider that Korya is being fashioned into a Mhybe. An empty vessel. I don't think it means anything really, it's just interesting how things relate to one another.

[Korbal]

Aptorius, on 14 August 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Korbal, on 14 August 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

There's also a cool mention of soul-shifting into dolls in this conversation, *cough cough* Quick Ben reference??

Not everything soul-shifting is Quick Ben related. How ever, interestingly, in GotM Quick Ben says (or was that one of the Andii?) that Soul shifting is related to the Andii or Kurald Galain. Most likely this implies that they have experience with the stuff. Then consider that Korya is being fashioned into a Mhybe. An empty vessel. I don't think it means anything really, it's just interesting how things relate to one another.

I definitely agree with you on the fact that soul-shifting doesn't necessarily represent a correlation to Quick. It simply brought back memories of Quick shifting hairlock into a doll in GoTM

[Abyss]

Varadas' dolls may be much more than toys, or its possible the big shift coming transforms them. Either way we know from elsebook that the Nacht was Jaghut creations and that there's a link between the Jaghut and the Boles, tho it doesn't explain the resistance to sorcery and antipathy for mages that the Boles show.

As for the QB thing, Apt raises an interesting point, since as far as we know OP is one of the few warrens QB never showed access to, yet he did develop soul shifting. His original links to Shadow, itself derived from Elder Shadow/Elder dark, may connect to this.

[Korbal]

Abyss, on 14 August 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

Varadas' dolls may be much more than toys, or its possible the big shift coming transforms them. Either way we know from elsebook that the Nacht was Jaghut creations and that there's a link between the Jaghut and the Boles, tho it doesn't explain the resistance to sorcery and antipathy for mages that the Boles show.

I would have to find the quote, but i vaguely remember the Boles saying that they had a particular dislike for necromancers, maybe something happens between Varandas and Hood (once he declares his war on death) to incite said emotions in the Boleads.

[nacht]

There are some interesting things about the Jaghut in this loaded paragraph. Thanks for pointing it.

First, of course is that of all founding races, the Jaghut are special. They are actually able to create living things (or are they automata). None of the other races have shown that ability.
It is also mentioned at one place that Haut could conjure up food if he wished. I always thought that was kind of strange.

Regarding the Boleads, it is possible that they could have been selectively bred over generations to develop their mage hunting capabilities . ( just like domestic animals,). Perhaps humans themselves were created by the Jaghut :-)

I always had this feeling that Jaghut and Mael were linked in some manner (because Ice is Water and because Mael seems to share Jaghut personality characteristics like deadpan humor etc.)

This post has been edited by nacht: 14 August 2013 - 11:37 PM

[Korbal]

nacht, on 14 August 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

There are some interesting things about the Jaghut in this loaded paragraph. Thanks for pointing it.

First, of course is that of all founding races, the Jaghut are special. They are actually able to create living things (or are they automata). None of the other races have shown that ability.
It is also mentioned at one place that Haut could conjure up food if he wished. I always thought that was kind of strange.

Regarding the Boleads, it is possible that they could have been selectively bred over generations to develop their mage hunting capabilities . ( just like domestic animals,). Perhaps humans themselves were created by the Jaghut :-)

I always had this feeling that Jaghut and Mael were linked in some manner (because Ice is Water and because Mael seems to share Jaghut personality characteristics like deadpan humor etc.)

There's a part in FoD where the Errant and Knuckles (Errastas and Sechul Lath) are talking about fleeing the realm of the Azathanai, they happen to mention Mael.
"Then do we travel to the Jheck? The Dog-Runners? Surely not the Thel Akai!"
"None of those, for the borders they share with the Azathanai. No, we must cross the sea, I think."
Sechul Lath started, and then scowled. "Whither fled Mael? He will not welcome us."

We also know from MT that Mael and Gothos seem to know each other on a familiar basis.

"On a glacial berm, overlooking the destruction of the war, Gothos began to weave the sorcery of Omtose Phellack to destroy it. As he weaved he eflt the betrayal of Silchas Ruin by Scabandri Bloodye. From behind, the Elder God Mael approached. Mael asked Gothos to preserve the land rather than destroy it in exchange for an indebtedness to him. Gothos, accepting, went to work."

Maybe the possible connection between Mael and the Jaghut is a product of a very old partnership between these two awesome characters? And i wonder why Mael fled the lands of the Azathanai...

This post has been edited by Korbal: 15 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

The Jaghut in letheras that imprisoned the demon seems familiar with him as well.

[Abyss]

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

.... "Whither fled Mael? He will not welcome us."

...And i wonder why Mael fled the lands of the Azathanai...

"fled' there may mean 'went', as opposed to 'ran away from something'.

I suspect Mael was looking to distance himself from other gods/Az'i even then.

Spoilsport Stonny, on 15 August 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

The Jaghut in letheras that imprisoned the demon seems familiar with him as well.

I can't quite remember whether Huntress knew Mael, or just knew who he was.
Given Jaghuts' relative immortality, it's reasonable that they would cross paths with other immortals over time.

[Korbal]

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

.... "Whither fled Mael? He will not welcome us."

...And i wonder why Mael fled the lands of the Azathanai...

Quote

"fled' there may mean 'went', as opposed to 'ran away from something'.

I suspect Mael was looking to distance himself from other gods/Az'i even then.

Very true, but just imagine Mael's legendary patience vs. Gothos' ... well just Gothos. Now that would be an argument that could last millennia!

This post has been edited by Korbal: 15 August 2013 - 07:50 PM

[nacht]

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

.... "Whither fled Mael? He will not welcome us."

...And i wonder why Mael fled the lands of the Azathanai...

Quote

"fled' there may mean 'went', as opposed to 'ran away from something'.

I suspect Mael was looking to distance himself from other gods/Az'i even then.

Very true, but just imagine Mael's legendary patience vs. Gothos' ... well just Gothos. Now that would be an argument that could last millennia!

It is also clearly mentioned that life originated from Denaeth Rusan.

From RG,

Quote

Like any tidal pool motionless under the hot sun, his blood had grown…heated. And the smallest pool was filled with the promise of an ocean, a score of oceans – all their power could be held in a single drop of water. Such was Denaeth Rusen, such was Ruse, the warren where life was first born. And there, in that promise of life itself, will I find what I need.
Of empathy.
Of warmth.
The power, when it came, was a true current. Angry, yes, yet true. Water had known life for so long it held no memory of purity. Power and gift had become one, and so it yielded to its god.

[Korbal]

nacht, on 16 August 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Korbal, on 15 August 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

.... "Whither fled Mael? He will not welcome us."

...And i wonder why Mael fled the lands of the Azathanai...

Quote

"fled' there may mean 'went', as opposed to 'ran away from something'.

I suspect Mael was looking to distance himself from other gods/Az'i even then.

Very true, but just imagine Mael's legendary patience vs. Gothos' ... well just Gothos. Now that would be an argument that could last millennia!

It is also clearly mentioned that life originated from Denaeth Rusan.

From RG,

Quote

Like any tidal pool motionless under the hot sun, his blood had grown…heated. And the smallest pool was filled with the promise of an ocean, a score of oceans – all their power could be held in a single drop of water. Such was Denaeth Rusen, such was Ruse, the warren where life was first born. And there, in that promise of life itself, will I find what I need.
Of empathy.
Of warmth.
The power, when it came, was a true current. Angry, yes, yet true. Water had known life for so long it held no memory of purity. Power and gift had become one, and so it yielded to its god.

Nice quote. Rep'd accordingly

[infravision]

I may have some more Bole Brother quote-y goodness to add to the discussion of their origin(s). Here is a quote from FoD, 3rd chapter, (p.51 in my copy) 2nd paragraph - when we are first introduced to Korya.

Quote

She was a giant to her dolls, a goddess, and hers were the hands of creation, and even without wings she could stand and look down upon them, reaching to adjust their contented positions, tilting their faces upward so that she could see their stitched smiles or surprised 'O' mouths, and their bright knuckled eyes of semi-precious stones - garnet, agate, amber - that gleamed and flashed as they drank in the fervent light.

(emphases mine)


"Knuckled" jumped out at me for obvious reasons, but the "amber"/Jamber/Amby connection was a Eureka! moment for me. And though it might be too much a of a leap, the mention of "precious stones" in possible connection with the Bole Brothers obviously made me think of Precious Thimble.

I'm not exactly sure what this means, but the words seem too carefully chosen, so I thought I would throw it out to the discussion and see what you all think.

[Felisin Fatter]

It seems a hint that Korya is strongly connected to the Boles, that she named them (or their forefathers, if they are more like mortals now).

[nacht]

Felisin Fatter, on 29 April 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

It seems a hint that Korya is strongly connected to the Boles, that she named them (or their forefathers, if they are more like mortals now).

They were named by Varnadas.who gave the dolls to Korya

Quote

‘And what did you name the series you gave to me?’
‘Bolead. But I fear I made too many of them, especially given their flaws.’

That is interesting speculation. Korya could be a goddess in their pantheon. Would love to read more about the boles from Blackdog forest, epecially our favorite (Jamber Bole). Perhaps Karsa will visit them in the Toblakai Trilogy :-)

[Felisin Fatter]

No, I mean she names the Bole dolls Jamby, Precious, etc. Or maybe her child does? (The proto-Quick Ben, according to crazy theories)