[Aptorian]

Dolmen+, on 11 August 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

The other aspect of protecting is co-ordinating your resources to handle opposition coming at you with whatever they can. I think it is very unlikely to have a fair fight regardless no matter how you look at it Mcguffins and the like are a given. By your explanation Vader is a living Mcguffin. how can you argue against leveling that playing field by introducing similar alternative super powers and a wider set of parameters?

Vader isn't a walking McGuffin. He just outclasses the people on the list. It's like complaining that Mike Tyson is winning a fist fight against a bunch of 12 year old kids. In essence the scenario is flawed because it doesn't make sense. Pairing Batman, Wolverine, Dredd and Marv together is fine. They are on around the same level with Batman and Wolverine as the favorites. Pairing The Predator, Terminator, Robocop and Hell Boy together is also fine because they can receive and dish out a hell of a lot of punishment with probably the Predator as the favorite. Vader should have been put on some kind of crazy list, fighting Dracula, Thor, Superman, Jesus, Neo and the Stay Puff Marshmellow Man.

Dolmen+, on 11 August 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Its a possibility hard to imagine. Only one group would really be able to pull that sort of thing off and that's the Predators. they can get the Pack and stealth their way into whatever place Darth Vader is keeping you hid. Darth Vaders defences are not his strongest point because he rarely bothers with sound defence. He is that powerful. I don't think any of the others have the means to get to ysalamir so if Vader can take care of the predators then yes, logicaly he is the best protector for the job.

The idea that Vaders defences are not his strongest point is a myth perpetuated by the Rebel Alliance who financed George Lucas political propaganda campaign disguised as a Sci-fi trilogy. Supposedly, when not allowing his opponents to escape, the Storm Troopers are very lethal. Vaders influence on his men should make them more so. If this takes place on Vaders home turf then suddenly you have an assassination mission on the Death Star or on a moon defended by the entire Imperial Fleet.

[Path-Shaper]

This is all backwards. Every single one of those wussies has at some point in my life asked ME to protect them.














Bitchez.

[Lucifer's Heaven]

I like the cast as listed in the first pic in this thread the most (like the idea of teams, as oppose to just one person).
I like the idea that there is a bounty on your head (and you know it), including your last known whereabouts and all the hunters are coming to collect. They are all competing bounty hunters (with the pictured character as leader), so possible alliances/competition/ignoring/killing off as would be appropriate. They don't necessarily know the others are after you. It is hosted in the universe of the defender and the hunters can bring what they want of their resources from their own universes, and are able to get whatever they could reasonably obtain from the host universe.

Darth Vader and the Star Destroyer - I am addressing first because he has been most popular. And I totally disagree.
Movie Version
The storm troopers are entirely useless, Vader only really uses choke and is a fairly awful sword fighter. Seriously, give me a lightsaber and choke immunity and I'd beat him in a sword fight.
Extended
First up, he is still powerful as Vader, but you can ignore everything he does as Anakin in Clone Wars. According to Lore he loses much of his power when becoming Vader, both from the extensive injuries and cybernetic replacements (only living creatures can use the force) and because he never fully mentally recovers from what happened to him.
Force - The problem here is that you and all the other contestants would very likely be completely force immune. No magic lizard required. You'd be undetectable and immune to direct usage (indirect would be fine). In short, you'd be Yuuzhan Vong. They are the only extra-galactic organic race and they are only connected to the force while they have their sentient home planet (which may be from within the Galaxy). Once they lose that, they are outside the force and untouchable by it as listed. Given how far, far away our galaxy is supposed to be, I'd say it's likely we'd be the same.
Next up, Vader still only really uses chokes and general pushes etc. He very rarely uses lightning because of his suit (more on that later). Also, we'd be immune to lightning as are the Yuuzhan. So he'd be able to throw stuff at you and augment his strength a bit.
Lightsaber - Cuts through a lot of stuff, but not everything. There are many things that can resist it. SIth Alchemy can make other materials lightsaber resistant for example. Most notably though; Mandalorian Iron, which can withstand it very well. And it withstands it entirely by being an amazingly tough metal alloy.
Vader can only block stuff with it as fast as he can move to intercept it. He can see attacks coming just before they happen, but he still has to get the sword in the way, and this can be beaten, otherwise no force user would ever lose a swordfight. Standard operating procedure for dealing with force users is overwhelming firepower (Ala Silencer's suggestion of very fast firing weapons, or lots of weapons firing) or using things sabers can't block, such as flamethrowers. He is at least meant to be a very good, but limited saber fighter. He mostly wins fights through sheer offensive power, aided by extra strength from bionic limbs. He lacks some speed and is fairly...stiff (nimble opponents have been known to dance around him quite well). Maybe not pertinent, but his lightsaber instantly fails if submerged in water (most do unless especially modified to not).
Suit/Armour - This is where Vader's real kryptonite comes in (the force nulling thing is just a weakening, kryptonite actually hurts Superman, not just weakens him). You see, the suit is also his life support system. If it breaks, he dies slowly. And while dying only has the use of one limb (all his others are mechanical and controlled/powered by the suit) and the suit is VERY susceptible to electricity. This is why he very rarely uses force lightning, it may kill him. This is why the Emperor's lightning kills him, it breaks the suit. So anyone who thinks to use an EMP blast or electrical attack on the guy very clearly wearing electronics will kill him with something neither the force, nor his lightsaber can protect him from. Also, if even his mask is off, he will slowly die. His mask does allow him infrared and nightvision and tactical overlays for piloting. His armour affords him a small amount of protection, but it is very little. He specifically keeps it this way so as not to become dependent on it for his defence.
Death Star - I am going with Death Star v1, because that's the only one that gets finished. So no Emperor, which fits the "story" because he wouldn't do as Vader says anyway. It has it's obvious weakness, but luckily most others wouldn't know it. However that weakness suggests the core is very unstable, so still susceptible to sabotage. He would have a hell of a lot of storm troopers at his disposal. Storm troopers would be effective, but not awfully so. While the movie depiction isn't how they're shown in the EU, it is still canon that they lost to the ewoks. They're probably better shots, but still a bad army on the whole. Still, sheer numbers plus fleets of ships and planet destroying power is a plus. It also has bad central control and elements are very hackable (as R2D2 often shows).

Predator Elite - Probably my bet as defenders (their defender universe would be the AvP comics one, so humans have interplanetary flight, but it's not fantastic)
First thing to keep in mind, they hunt for honour, but they do know how to and are willing to put the hunt aside when necessary, they are very pragmatic when required. As a hunter, they'd probably stick to it where possible, as protector, they would ignore it excluding the occasional indulgence (this is a big part of why I think they'd win as a protector)
Elites - These guys are an actual caste, and they are tough. Seriously, to become an elite you have to have killed a xenomorph queen in a hunt. These are all veteran hunters and warriors that are most likely hundreds of years old. They have their own ships, and can access all weapons and equipment their species has (younger less experienced predators are limited in which weapons they're allowed to use). They are also allowed to seed xenomorphs for hunting.
Stealth - A few of you have gotten this wrong. Their stealth cannot be seen through with infrared, it bends more than visible light. In the AvP games the only way to see a stealthed predator with another predator, is tech vision, which analyses EMF. It's not visible via heat vision. This means it is not visible to Vader's mask. It can still be seen through, as it isn't quite perfect, but this mostly only happens when seeing them move. Is the sort of flaw other experienced hunters like Wolverine have a good chance at noticing on a predator. But in the vastness of space, their ships might as well be completely invisible.
Weapons - They do have a lot of martial weapons, and the Elites are VERY good with them (most will specialise with a weapon). However they have a variety of different weapons too. Their slicey nets, the homing discs and of course their plasma casters. There are also handheld versions of the plasma casters. Lastly, do no underestimate the usefulness of a nuclear hara-kiri. They do not have the sort of weapons that would be very good at getting through Vader in an honour fight, but Vader is unlikely to survive killing the first one (especially noting that he cannot run). And finally, they have bombs and ship mounted weapons capable of wiping countries out of existence (most often used for destroying out of control xenomorph infestations). They wouldn't use these as a hunter, but if charged with protecting you, they'd use them against a Death Star coming after you.
Physically - They would probably be a match for Vader's strength as they've been shown to be able to break concrete (and they're about the same height which is nice). They are also surprisingly hard to kill and fairly quick healers (by ordinary standards, not x-gene healing factor kind of fast)
Xenomorphs - Seeding them would be very effective against every other large force listed, except Skynet. I also imagine the Judges being pretty good against them. Their vigilance, ruthlessness and telepath/s would possibly stop them being able to take hold. I said "large force", so that's not including X-Men, Gotham's Finest and Hellboy Crew. Probably not bad against Gotham team, provided it isn't Batman himself that finds the eggs first. I have a great mental image of a chestburster trying to get out of Wolverines chest Would be hilarious to seed onto the Death Star, I want to see a movie of that
So yeah, some running and hiding you while the others take out those hunting you would be pretty effective.

Wolverine and the X-Men
Phoenix is not included, she is not an X-Man and would not follow Wolverine. There is still a pretty friggin' solid roster if you're looking at most of the school though.
Hunters - As hunter's I'd probably look at something akin to the usual team from the original cartoon: Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Jean, Nightcrawler. Add in a few regulars from comic teams: Shadowcat, Colossus. There are plenty of others, but they'd make an excellent hunter team. Jean can get information from people on your whereabouts, spot traps and semi-nullify stealthed enemies. As well as few others having a way to combat mind attacks. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat can bypass a lot of security and easily close with enemies more suited for ranged fighting. Storm and Cyclops are always useful in a fight.
Wolverine and/or Colossus versus Darth Vader. The question of toughness. This is why I mentioned Mandalorian Iron earlier. It is a metal alloy in the Star Wars universe that can withstand lightsabers purely from toughness, no Sith alchemy required. If Mandalorian Iron can, I argue that Adamantium definitely can and Colossus most likely can. This means both Wolverine'ss claws and HIS ENTIRE SKELETON are effectively lightsaber proof. The rest of him could still be hurt, but the surprise at Vader'ss first solid killing strike failing would probably be enough for Wolverine to kill him (Vader's arrogance in duels he thinks he outclasses the enemy is a noted weakness of his). If it wasn't enough, they both have similar combat styles (very agressive and overpowering), and Wolverine is also a master swordsman, I could see either winning. If Colossus can withstand it, he has Vader pretty solidly beat. He's at least as strong and would be impervious to pretty much any damage done to him in a duel with Vader.
Defenders - As defenders you could hide at the school, giving you a huge number of powerful protectors. The main problem I see is the Death Star planet destruction. Though, if they knew it was coming (between Xavier and Cerebro there's a good chance), they would actually have a chance for defence. This defence would actually come in terms of their home field advantage. That being; neither Scarlet Witch nor Magneto would approve of their planet being blown up, and both would have the power to do something about it. That is borderline cheating, but I'd allow it.
Oh, Dr Strange would probably have something to say about blowing up Earth too

Marv and Company
Pff, yeah right.

Hellboy and Crew
This is the group I think I can do the least justice to, unfortunately. I don't know them beyond the movies and it is currently a bit too late for me to research him properly.
The main two things I'll say is that I'd argue his stone hand is lightsaber proof/resistant as it is magically reinforced (and sith alchemy can magically make armour lightsaber resistant). For fairness I'd say it would withstand pretty much anything thrown at it, even if the rest of him isn't as resilient (it's the right arm of the being that created earth after all). Also, as hunters, him and Liz Sherman would make a fairly hard to stop pair even without the rest of the team. Him being able to pummel you while she smothers the entire room in fire (which he is entirely immune to) is hard to counter.
...
Oh shit... Hahahaha! Hellboy in his entirety would be completely immune to lightsabers and all laser/plasma weapons! He is completely immune to all heat based damage. This even extends to being unharmed by electricity (because it damages by burning). This certainly increases his his chances and effectiveness against the Star Wars and Predator teams. I'm not sure he has much defence against planet destruction though...
Also, I will refer people to someone on the first page mentioning him letting you die, then bringing you back when the hunters are gone. If he can do that then that strategy cannot be underestimated as a "defence".

Gotham's Finest - Note "Gotham's" not "DC's", so no Superman in the team. In part because Superman is stoopid.
Hunters - They'd have a chance, but they'd probably be one of the last to get to you. Given they'd do extensive recon and threat assessment of the universe they're now in. They'd have a great chance against any basic earth based protector (Skynet, Judges, Robocop), but I dunno beyond that. I can't see them getting through Xavier's School on high alert. Yes, yes, master planner mcguffin extraordinaire. But he wouldn't be able to carry enough Achilles heel devices to get through the variety of abilities the school holds. And none of his allies are superpowered. They'd do well in the Star Wars universe I think, and he would be able to get an EMP device to neutralise Vader. I don't think he could take on a Predator elite in a one on one fight (he is not unbeatable in a fight, in every good mythos Bane breaks his back)(but his team could take out one at a time together), he couldn't track you down in their universe very well. I don't know how well he'd fair vs Hellboy Crew. Partly limited knowledge, but also, Hellboy has no Achilles heel, and there would probably be scant information about him and his team around for Batman to get anyway (unless it's after the second movie I suppose).
Defenders - I... don't think they'd have a lot of chance. Few in number vs forces like Skynet... Judge's and X-Men telepath nulls a lot of traps. If Vader doesn't try and blow up the planet (thereby incurring the wrath of Superman...I let the X-Men do it...Although there is much less chance DC universe would see it coming) then he'd have a good chance on sheer numbers provided he doesn't lead the assault and get EMP'd to death. Basically, Batman's forte is in being the hunter, he doesn't have much to combat armies coming after him.

Skynet/Judges/Robocop - Together because they have similar limitations.
Defenders - First and foremost, there is sweet fuck all they can do against the Death Star planet destruction. Barring that, they all basically have small or bigger armies at their disposal. Pretty much limited to fairly modern like tech, but do not underestimate the stuff we can do. They'd have a good chance defending you against Gotham, each other, the Predators (given they'd be using Hunt rules), Hellboy Crew (I think) and possibly X-Men. X-Men's versatility would really come into play (Colossus would be hard to stop and Shadowkat is hard to do anything against).
Hunters - They'd all have a pretty good chance against most. Things like large railguns (which shoot a projectile so fast that the friction ignites the air they fly through and when they hit something they fuck it up in ways physics barely understands) and drones that can shoot 5000 5mm grenades per minute with perfect accuracy are rather hard to stop.
Judges - Notable bonus ability, they can have telepaths. Telepaths of the "I can sense you through walls on the fly" and "I can sense your fears and fuck with your head so much I leave you a weeping mess, from a distance" variety. Also, the Judges are generally pretty hardcore as far as ruthless bastards go. And they regularly see serious action, so they're mostly all essentially veteran soldiers. My comic reading of Dredd is limited, so they may have more up their sleeve too.
Skynet - Remember, this is the system that took over the world. This AI is a the master of gaining control of well protected systems. I could see Skynet running rampant in the Star Wars universe. Also, despite what the movies show, when a well programmed computer is aiming, barring completely unforeseen circumstances, it doesn't miss.

So yeah, there are a fair few good contenders.
Predators would be my top, because in any universe they could hide you well and when not restricted by honour they are very hard to stop/deal with. Especially if they get home field advantage, then other teams that don't have their own ships have pretty much zero chance of finding you, so really only Star Wars would have a shot.
In contention with a lot of people, Vader would be one of my bottom choices. On his home field everyone gets the ability to come after you, everyone here is a good hunter and Imperial security is not exactly top notch vs infiltration. He has easily exploitable and obvious weaknesses and not much in the way of counters to others. Even if you let him use the force on everyone, force sense is notorious imprecise (it is VERY vague), still not much he can do against kamikaze Predator, still vulnerable to EMP, metal Colossus doesn't need to breathe (so force choke is moot), he can't defend much against telepaths, can't stop overwhelming fire, can't do shit to stop Liz Sherman burning him to death. He does have his Storm Troopers yes, but he is an arrogant motherfucker who likes to go after his prey personally without much of a guard force.

PS - Starfleet Command should have been in there instead of fuckin' Marv.

[Mentalist]

Una, on 10 August 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

I should like to have Hugh Jackman as my protector.

Sorry. I can't seem to think much beyond that. But the Arnold Terminator is the only one on that list that I know of who was specifically tasked with a protection mission and I think his charge was still alive at the end of the movie. So there's that.

Along these lines, I was thinking about Marv, because, well, Jessica Alba.

in all seriosness, Skynet. Deathstars use technology. Skynet would hack it. And use it to blow up Whatever place Vader is at.
And if all else were to fail, it would send Arnie back in time to kill Anakin's mother. And then Jar Jar Binks. Then Episode 1 would never happen, and the world would be a happier place.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Lucifer, on 16 August 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I like the cast as listed in the first pic in this thread the most (like the idea of teams, as oppose to just one person).
I like the idea that there is a bounty on your head (and you know it), including your last known whereabouts and all the hunters are coming to collect. They are all competing bounty hunters (with the pictured character as leader), so possible alliances/competition/ignoring/killing off as would be appropriate. They don't necessarily know the others are after you. It is hosted in the universe of the defender and the hunters can bring what they want of their resources from their own universes, and are able to get whatever they could reasonably obtain from the host universe.

Darth Vader and the Star Destroyer - I am addressing first because he has been most popular. And I totally disagree.
Movie Version
The storm troopers are entirely useless, Vader only really uses choke and is a fairly awful sword fighter. Seriously, give me a lightsaber and choke immunity and I'd beat him in a sword fight.
Extended
First up, he is still powerful as Vader, but you can ignore everything he does as Anakin in Clone Wars. According to Lore he loses much of his power when becoming Vader, both from the extensive injuries and cybernetic replacements (only living creatures can use the force) and because he never fully mentally recovers from what happened to him.
Force - The problem here is that you and all the other contestants would very likely be completely force immune. No magic lizard required. You'd be undetectable and immune to direct usage (indirect would be fine). In short, you'd be Yuuzhan Vong. They are the only extra-galactic organic race and they are only connected to the force while they have their sentient home planet (which may be from within the Galaxy). Once they lose that, they are outside the force and untouchable by it as listed. Given how far, far away our galaxy is supposed to be, I'd say it's likely we'd be the same.
Next up, Vader still only really uses chokes and general pushes etc. He very rarely uses lightning because of his suit (more on that later). Also, we'd be immune to lightning as are the Yuuzhan. So he'd be able to throw stuff at you and augment his strength a bit.
Lightsaber - Cuts through a lot of stuff, but not everything. There are many things that can resist it. SIth Alchemy can make other materials lightsaber resistant for example. Most notably though; Mandalorian Iron, which can withstand it very well. And it withstands it entirely by being an amazingly tough metal alloy.
Vader can only block stuff with it as fast as he can move to intercept it. He can see attacks coming just before they happen, but he still has to get the sword in the way, and this can be beaten, otherwise no force user would ever lose a swordfight. Standard operating procedure for dealing with force users is overwhelming firepower (Ala Silencer's suggestion of very fast firing weapons, or lots of weapons firing) or using things sabers can't block, such as flamethrowers. He is at least meant to be a very good, but limited saber fighter. He mostly wins fights through sheer offensive power, aided by extra strength from bionic limbs. He lacks some speed and is fairly...stiff (nimble opponents have been known to dance around him quite well). Maybe not pertinent, but his lightsaber instantly fails if submerged in water (most do unless especially modified to not).
Suit/Armour - This is where Vader's real kryptonite comes in (the force nulling thing is just a weakening, kryptonite actually hurts Superman, not just weakens him). You see, the suit is also his life support system. If it breaks, he dies slowly. And while dying only has the use of one limb (all his others are mechanical and controlled/powered by the suit) and the suit is VERY susceptible to electricity. This is why he very rarely uses force lightning, it may kill him. This is why the Emperor's lightning kills him, it breaks the suit. So anyone who thinks to use an EMP blast or electrical attack on the guy very clearly wearing electronics will kill him with something neither the force, nor his lightsaber can protect him from. Also, if even his mask is off, he will slowly die. His mask does allow him infrared and nightvision and tactical overlays for piloting. His armour affords him a small amount of protection, but it is very little. He specifically keeps it this way so as not to become dependent on it for his defence.
Death Star - I am going with Death Star v1, because that's the only one that gets finished. So no Emperor, which fits the "story" because he wouldn't do as Vader says anyway. It has it's obvious weakness, but luckily most others wouldn't know it. However that weakness suggests the core is very unstable, so still susceptible to sabotage. He would have a hell of a lot of storm troopers at his disposal. Storm troopers would be effective, but not awfully so. While the movie depiction isn't how they're shown in the EU, it is still canon that they lost to the ewoks. They're probably better shots, but still a bad army on the whole. Still, sheer numbers plus fleets of ships and planet destroying power is a plus. It also has bad central control and elements are very hackable (as R2D2 often shows).

Predator Elite - Probably my bet as defenders (their defender universe would be the AvP comics one, so humans have interplanetary flight, but it's not fantastic)
First thing to keep in mind, they hunt for honour, but they do know how to and are willing to put the hunt aside when necessary, they are very pragmatic when required. As a hunter, they'd probably stick to it where possible, as protector, they would ignore it excluding the occasional indulgence (this is a big part of why I think they'd win as a protector)
Elites - These guys are an actual caste, and they are tough. Seriously, to become an elite you have to have killed a xenomorph queen in a hunt. These are all veteran hunters and warriors that are most likely hundreds of years old. They have their own ships, and can access all weapons and equipment their species has (younger less experienced predators are limited in which weapons they're allowed to use). They are also allowed to seed xenomorphs for hunting.
Stealth - A few of you have gotten this wrong. Their stealth cannot be seen through with infrared, it bends more than visible light. In the AvP games the only way to see a stealthed predator with another predator, is tech vision, which analyses EMF. It's not visible via heat vision. This means it is not visible to Vader's mask. It can still be seen through, as it isn't quite perfect, but this mostly only happens when seeing them move. Is the sort of flaw other experienced hunters like Wolverine have a good chance at noticing on a predator. But in the vastness of space, their ships might as well be completely invisible.
Weapons - They do have a lot of martial weapons, and the Elites are VERY good with them (most will specialise with a weapon). However they have a variety of different weapons too. Their slicey nets, the homing discs and of course their plasma casters. There are also handheld versions of the plasma casters. Lastly, do no underestimate the usefulness of a nuclear hara-kiri. They do not have the sort of weapons that would be very good at getting through Vader in an honour fight, but Vader is unlikely to survive killing the first one (especially noting that he cannot run). And finally, they have bombs and ship mounted weapons capable of wiping countries out of existence (most often used for destroying out of control xenomorph infestations). They wouldn't use these as a hunter, but if charged with protecting you, they'd use them against a Death Star coming after you.
Physically - They would probably be a match for Vader's strength as they've been shown to be able to break concrete (and they're about the same height which is nice). They are also surprisingly hard to kill and fairly quick healers (by ordinary standards, not x-gene healing factor kind of fast)
Xenomorphs - Seeding them would be very effective against every other large force listed, except Skynet. I also imagine the Judges being pretty good against them. Their vigilance, ruthlessness and telepath/s would possibly stop them being able to take hold. I said "large force", so that's not including X-Men, Gotham's Finest and Hellboy Crew. Probably not bad against Gotham team, provided it isn't Batman himself that finds the eggs first. I have a great mental image of a chestburster trying to get out of Wolverines chest Would be hilarious to seed onto the Death Star, I want to see a movie of that
So yeah, some running and hiding you while the others take out those hunting you would be pretty effective.

Wolverine and the X-Men
Phoenix is not included, she is not an X-Man and would not follow Wolverine. There is still a pretty friggin' solid roster if you're looking at most of the school though.
Hunters - As hunter's I'd probably look at something akin to the usual team from the original cartoon: Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Jean, Nightcrawler. Add in a few regulars from comic teams: Shadowcat, Colossus. There are plenty of others, but they'd make an excellent hunter team. Jean can get information from people on your whereabouts, spot traps and semi-nullify stealthed enemies. As well as few others having a way to combat mind attacks. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat can bypass a lot of security and easily close with enemies more suited for ranged fighting. Storm and Cyclops are always useful in a fight.
Wolverine and/or Colossus versus Darth Vader. The question of toughness. This is why I mentioned Mandalorian Iron earlier. It is a metal alloy in the Star Wars universe that can withstand lightsabers purely from toughness, no Sith alchemy required. If Mandalorian Iron can, I argue that Adamantium definitely can and Colossus most likely can. This means both Wolverine'ss claws and HIS ENTIRE SKELETON are effectively lightsaber proof. The rest of him could still be hurt, but the surprise at Vader'ss first solid killing strike failing would probably be enough for Wolverine to kill him (Vader's arrogance in duels he thinks he outclasses the enemy is a noted weakness of his). If it wasn't enough, they both have similar combat styles (very agressive and overpowering), and Wolverine is also a master swordsman, I could see either winning. If Colossus can withstand it, he has Vader pretty solidly beat. He's at least as strong and would be impervious to pretty much any damage done to him in a duel with Vader.
Defenders - As defenders you could hide at the school, giving you a huge number of powerful protectors. The main problem I see is the Death Star planet destruction. Though, if they knew it was coming (between Xavier and Cerebro there's a good chance), they would actually have a chance for defence. This defence would actually come in terms of their home field advantage. That being; neither Scarlet Witch nor Magneto would approve of their planet being blown up, and both would have the power to do something about it. That is borderline cheating, but I'd allow it.
Oh, Dr Strange would probably have something to say about blowing up Earth too

Marv and Company
Pff, yeah right.

Hellboy and Crew
This is the group I think I can do the least justice to, unfortunately. I don't know them beyond the movies and it is currently a bit too late for me to research him properly.
The main two things I'll say is that I'd argue his stone hand is lightsaber proof/resistant as it is magically reinforced (and sith alchemy can magically make armour lightsaber resistant). For fairness I'd say it would withstand pretty much anything thrown at it, even if the rest of him isn't as resilient (it's the right arm of the being that created earth after all). Also, as hunters, him and Liz Sherman would make a fairly hard to stop pair even without the rest of the team. Him being able to pummel you while she smothers the entire room in fire (which he is entirely immune to) is hard to counter.
...
Oh shit... Hahahaha! Hellboy in his entirety would be completely immune to lightsabers and all laser/plasma weapons! He is completely immune to all heat based damage. This even extends to being unharmed by electricity (because it damages by burning). This certainly increases his his chances and effectiveness against the Star Wars and Predator teams. I'm not sure he has much defence against planet destruction though...
Also, I will refer people to someone on the first page mentioning him letting you die, then bringing you back when the hunters are gone. If he can do that then that strategy cannot be underestimated as a "defence".

Gotham's Finest - Note "Gotham's" not "DC's", so no Superman in the team. In part because Superman is stoopid.
Hunters - They'd have a chance, but they'd probably be one of the last to get to you. Given they'd do extensive recon and threat assessment of the universe they're now in. They'd have a great chance against any basic earth based protector (Skynet, Judges, Robocop), but I dunno beyond that. I can't see them getting through Xavier's School on high alert. Yes, yes, master planner mcguffin extraordinaire. But he wouldn't be able to carry enough Achilles heel devices to get through the variety of abilities the school holds. And none of his allies are superpowered. They'd do well in the Star Wars universe I think, and he would be able to get an EMP device to neutralise Vader. I don't think he could take on a Predator elite in a one on one fight (he is not unbeatable in a fight, in every good mythos Bane breaks his back)(but his team could take out one at a time together), he couldn't track you down in their universe very well. I don't know how well he'd fair vs Hellboy Crew. Partly limited knowledge, but also, Hellboy has no Achilles heel, and there would probably be scant information about him and his team around for Batman to get anyway (unless it's after the second movie I suppose).
Defenders - I... don't think they'd have a lot of chance. Few in number vs forces like Skynet... Judge's and X-Men telepath nulls a lot of traps. If Vader doesn't try and blow up the planet (thereby incurring the wrath of Superman...I let the X-Men do it...Although there is much less chance DC universe would see it coming) then he'd have a good chance on sheer numbers provided he doesn't lead the assault and get EMP'd to death. Basically, Batman's forte is in being the hunter, he doesn't have much to combat armies coming after him.

Skynet/Judges/Robocop - Together because they have similar limitations.
Defenders - First and foremost, there is sweet fuck all they can do against the Death Star planet destruction. Barring that, they all basically have small or bigger armies at their disposal. Pretty much limited to fairly modern like tech, but do not underestimate the stuff we can do. They'd have a good chance defending you against Gotham, each other, the Predators (given they'd be using Hunt rules), Hellboy Crew (I think) and possibly X-Men. X-Men's versatility would really come into play (Colossus would be hard to stop and Shadowkat is hard to do anything against).
Hunters - They'd all have a pretty good chance against most. Things like large railguns (which shoot a projectile so fast that the friction ignites the air they fly through and when they hit something they fuck it up in ways physics barely understands) and drones that can shoot 5000 5mm grenades per minute with perfect accuracy are rather hard to stop.
Judges - Notable bonus ability, they can have telepaths. Telepaths of the "I can sense you through walls on the fly" and "I can sense your fears and fuck with your head so much I leave you a weeping mess, from a distance" variety. Also, the Judges are generally pretty hardcore as far as ruthless bastards go. And they regularly see serious action, so they're mostly all essentially veteran soldiers. My comic reading of Dredd is limited, so they may have more up their sleeve too.
Skynet - Remember, this is the system that took over the world. This AI is a the master of gaining control of well protected systems. I could see Skynet running rampant in the Star Wars universe. Also, despite what the movies show, when a well programmed computer is aiming, barring completely unforeseen circumstances, it doesn't miss.

So yeah, there are a fair few good contenders.
Predators would be my top, because in any universe they could hide you well and when not restricted by honour they are very hard to stop/deal with. Especially if they get home field advantage, then other teams that don't have their own ships have pretty much zero chance of finding you, so really only Star Wars would have a shot.
In contention with a lot of people, Vader would be one of my bottom choices. On his home field everyone gets the ability to come after you, everyone here is a good hunter and Imperial security is not exactly top notch vs infiltration. He has easily exploitable and obvious weaknesses and not much in the way of counters to others. Even if you let him use the force on everyone, force sense is notorious imprecise (it is VERY vague), still not much he can do against kamikaze Predator, still vulnerable to EMP, metal Colossus doesn't need to breathe (so force choke is moot), he can't defend much against telepaths, can't stop overwhelming fire, can't do shit to stop Liz Sherman burning him to death. He does have his Storm Troopers yes, but he is an arrogant motherfucker who likes to go after his prey personally without much of a guard force.

PS - Starfleet Command should have been in there instead of fuckin' Marv.

Well that was really laid out. not much to add, please do keep in mind we talking four X-men only wolverine included. Magneto is outside the X-men dynamic but part of the X-men universe. still he and Scarlet witch are not who I'd factor in as a "member" of the X-men team even if they cameo every now and again. the big guns are exclusive to the Xavier school so Shadow Cat, Colluses, Wolverine and Storm (for example). It all pins on the tech available to them in the X-men universe.

IMO Skynet is trump defender based off your arguments. only those with no reliability on tech can get close enough to the skynet system to do anything and thats a dicey game. The X-men specialise in it though as do Hellboy and co. but how would these guys find me? only Wolverine and the predators can track me without aid of fancy gadgets. and I rate Skynet could take em. Just replicate a few Omega Red scale terminators and handle business that way while hacking every automated hunter and possibly Vaders Death star and LS systems.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 17 August 2013 - 09:10 AM

[Macros]

Dolmen+, on 17 August 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Lucifer, on 16 August 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I like the cast as listed in the first pic in this thread the most (like the idea of teams, as oppose to just one person).
I like the idea that there is a bounty on your head (and you know it), including your last known whereabouts and all the hunters are coming to collect. They are all competing bounty hunters (with the pictured character as leader), so possible alliances/competition/ignoring/killing off as would be appropriate. They don't necessarily know the others are after you. It is hosted in the universe of the defender and the hunters can bring what they want of their resources from their own universes, and are able to get whatever they could reasonably obtain from the host universe.

Darth Vader and the Star Destroyer - I am addressing first because he has been most popular. And I totally disagree.
Movie Version
The storm troopers are entirely useless, Vader only really uses choke and is a fairly awful sword fighter. Seriously, give me a lightsaber and choke immunity and I'd beat him in a sword fight.
Extended
First up, he is still powerful as Vader, but you can ignore everything he does as Anakin in Clone Wars. According to Lore he loses much of his power when becoming Vader, both from the extensive injuries and cybernetic replacements (only living creatures can use the force) and because he never fully mentally recovers from what happened to him.
Force - The problem here is that you and all the other contestants would very likely be completely force immune. No magic lizard required. You'd be undetectable and immune to direct usage (indirect would be fine). In short, you'd be Yuuzhan Vong. They are the only extra-galactic organic race and they are only connected to the force while they have their sentient home planet (which may be from within the Galaxy). Once they lose that, they are outside the force and untouchable by it as listed. Given how far, far away our galaxy is supposed to be, I'd say it's likely we'd be the same.
Next up, Vader still only really uses chokes and general pushes etc. He very rarely uses lightning because of his suit (more on that later). Also, we'd be immune to lightning as are the Yuuzhan. So he'd be able to throw stuff at you and augment his strength a bit.
Lightsaber - Cuts through a lot of stuff, but not everything. There are many things that can resist it. SIth Alchemy can make other materials lightsaber resistant for example. Most notably though; Mandalorian Iron, which can withstand it very well. And it withstands it entirely by being an amazingly tough metal alloy.
Vader can only block stuff with it as fast as he can move to intercept it. He can see attacks coming just before they happen, but he still has to get the sword in the way, and this can be beaten, otherwise no force user would ever lose a swordfight. Standard operating procedure for dealing with force users is overwhelming firepower (Ala Silencer's suggestion of very fast firing weapons, or lots of weapons firing) or using things sabers can't block, such as flamethrowers. He is at least meant to be a very good, but limited saber fighter. He mostly wins fights through sheer offensive power, aided by extra strength from bionic limbs. He lacks some speed and is fairly...stiff (nimble opponents have been known to dance around him quite well). Maybe not pertinent, but his lightsaber instantly fails if submerged in water (most do unless especially modified to not).
Suit/Armour - This is where Vader's real kryptonite comes in (the force nulling thing is just a weakening, kryptonite actually hurts Superman, not just weakens him). You see, the suit is also his life support system. If it breaks, he dies slowly. And while dying only has the use of one limb (all his others are mechanical and controlled/powered by the suit) and the suit is VERY susceptible to electricity. This is why he very rarely uses force lightning, it may kill him. This is why the Emperor's lightning kills him, it breaks the suit. So anyone who thinks to use an EMP blast or electrical attack on the guy very clearly wearing electronics will kill him with something neither the force, nor his lightsaber can protect him from. Also, if even his mask is off, he will slowly die. His mask does allow him infrared and nightvision and tactical overlays for piloting. His armour affords him a small amount of protection, but it is very little. He specifically keeps it this way so as not to become dependent on it for his defence.
Death Star - I am going with Death Star v1, because that's the only one that gets finished. So no Emperor, which fits the "story" because he wouldn't do as Vader says anyway. It has it's obvious weakness, but luckily most others wouldn't know it. However that weakness suggests the core is very unstable, so still susceptible to sabotage. He would have a hell of a lot of storm troopers at his disposal. Storm troopers would be effective, but not awfully so. While the movie depiction isn't how they're shown in the EU, it is still canon that they lost to the ewoks. They're probably better shots, but still a bad army on the whole. Still, sheer numbers plus fleets of ships and planet destroying power is a plus. It also has bad central control and elements are very hackable (as R2D2 often shows).

Predator Elite - Probably my bet as defenders (their defender universe would be the AvP comics one, so humans have interplanetary flight, but it's not fantastic)
First thing to keep in mind, they hunt for honour, but they do know how to and are willing to put the hunt aside when necessary, they are very pragmatic when required. As a hunter, they'd probably stick to it where possible, as protector, they would ignore it excluding the occasional indulgence (this is a big part of why I think they'd win as a protector)
Elites - These guys are an actual caste, and they are tough. Seriously, to become an elite you have to have killed a xenomorph queen in a hunt. These are all veteran hunters and warriors that are most likely hundreds of years old. They have their own ships, and can access all weapons and equipment their species has (younger less experienced predators are limited in which weapons they're allowed to use). They are also allowed to seed xenomorphs for hunting.
Stealth - A few of you have gotten this wrong. Their stealth cannot be seen through with infrared, it bends more than visible light. In the AvP games the only way to see a stealthed predator with another predator, is tech vision, which analyses EMF. It's not visible via heat vision. This means it is not visible to Vader's mask. It can still be seen through, as it isn't quite perfect, but this mostly only happens when seeing them move. Is the sort of flaw other experienced hunters like Wolverine have a good chance at noticing on a predator. But in the vastness of space, their ships might as well be completely invisible.
Weapons - They do have a lot of martial weapons, and the Elites are VERY good with them (most will specialise with a weapon). However they have a variety of different weapons too. Their slicey nets, the homing discs and of course their plasma casters. There are also handheld versions of the plasma casters. Lastly, do no underestimate the usefulness of a nuclear hara-kiri. They do not have the sort of weapons that would be very good at getting through Vader in an honour fight, but Vader is unlikely to survive killing the first one (especially noting that he cannot run). And finally, they have bombs and ship mounted weapons capable of wiping countries out of existence (most often used for destroying out of control xenomorph infestations). They wouldn't use these as a hunter, but if charged with protecting you, they'd use them against a Death Star coming after you.
Physically - They would probably be a match for Vader's strength as they've been shown to be able to break concrete (and they're about the same height which is nice). They are also surprisingly hard to kill and fairly quick healers (by ordinary standards, not x-gene healing factor kind of fast)
Xenomorphs - Seeding them would be very effective against every other large force listed, except Skynet. I also imagine the Judges being pretty good against them. Their vigilance, ruthlessness and telepath/s would possibly stop them being able to take hold. I said "large force", so that's not including X-Men, Gotham's Finest and Hellboy Crew. Probably not bad against Gotham team, provided it isn't Batman himself that finds the eggs first. I have a great mental image of a chestburster trying to get out of Wolverines chest Would be hilarious to seed onto the Death Star, I want to see a movie of that
So yeah, some running and hiding you while the others take out those hunting you would be pretty effective.

Wolverine and the X-Men
Phoenix is not included, she is not an X-Man and would not follow Wolverine. There is still a pretty friggin' solid roster if you're looking at most of the school though.
Hunters - As hunter's I'd probably look at something akin to the usual team from the original cartoon: Cyclops, Storm, Rogue, Jean, Nightcrawler. Add in a few regulars from comic teams: Shadowcat, Colossus. There are plenty of others, but they'd make an excellent hunter team. Jean can get information from people on your whereabouts, spot traps and semi-nullify stealthed enemies. As well as few others having a way to combat mind attacks. Nightcrawler and Shadowcat can bypass a lot of security and easily close with enemies more suited for ranged fighting. Storm and Cyclops are always useful in a fight.
Wolverine and/or Colossus versus Darth Vader. The question of toughness. This is why I mentioned Mandalorian Iron earlier. It is a metal alloy in the Star Wars universe that can withstand lightsabers purely from toughness, no Sith alchemy required. If Mandalorian Iron can, I argue that Adamantium definitely can and Colossus most likely can. This means both Wolverine'ss claws and HIS ENTIRE SKELETON are effectively lightsaber proof. The rest of him could still be hurt, but the surprise at Vader'ss first solid killing strike failing would probably be enough for Wolverine to kill him (Vader's arrogance in duels he thinks he outclasses the enemy is a noted weakness of his). If it wasn't enough, they both have similar combat styles (very agressive and overpowering), and Wolverine is also a master swordsman, I could see either winning. If Colossus can withstand it, he has Vader pretty solidly beat. He's at least as strong and would be impervious to pretty much any damage done to him in a duel with Vader.
Defenders - As defenders you could hide at the school, giving you a huge number of powerful protectors. The main problem I see is the Death Star planet destruction. Though, if they knew it was coming (between Xavier and Cerebro there's a good chance), they would actually have a chance for defence. This defence would actually come in terms of their home field advantage. That being; neither Scarlet Witch nor Magneto would approve of their planet being blown up, and both would have the power to do something about it. That is borderline cheating, but I'd allow it.
Oh, Dr Strange would probably have something to say about blowing up Earth too

Marv and Company
Pff, yeah right.

Hellboy and Crew
This is the group I think I can do the least justice to, unfortunately. I don't know them beyond the movies and it is currently a bit too late for me to research him properly.
The main two things I'll say is that I'd argue his stone hand is lightsaber proof/resistant as it is magically reinforced (and sith alchemy can magically make armour lightsaber resistant). For fairness I'd say it would withstand pretty much anything thrown at it, even if the rest of him isn't as resilient (it's the right arm of the being that created earth after all). Also, as hunters, him and Liz Sherman would make a fairly hard to stop pair even without the rest of the team. Him being able to pummel you while she smothers the entire room in fire (which he is entirely immune to) is hard to counter.
...
Oh shit... Hahahaha! Hellboy in his entirety would be completely immune to lightsabers and all laser/plasma weapons! He is completely immune to all heat based damage. This even extends to being unharmed by electricity (because it damages by burning). This certainly increases his his chances and effectiveness against the Star Wars and Predator teams. I'm not sure he has much defence against planet destruction though...
Also, I will refer people to someone on the first page mentioning him letting you die, then bringing you back when the hunters are gone. If he can do that then that strategy cannot be underestimated as a "defence".

Gotham's Finest - Note "Gotham's" not "DC's", so no Superman in the team. In part because Superman is stoopid.
Hunters - They'd have a chance, but they'd probably be one of the last to get to you. Given they'd do extensive recon and threat assessment of the universe they're now in. They'd have a great chance against any basic earth based protector (Skynet, Judges, Robocop), but I dunno beyond that. I can't see them getting through Xavier's School on high alert. Yes, yes, master planner mcguffin extraordinaire. But he wouldn't be able to carry enough Achilles heel devices to get through the variety of abilities the school holds. And none of his allies are superpowered. They'd do well in the Star Wars universe I think, and he would be able to get an EMP device to neutralise Vader. I don't think he could take on a Predator elite in a one on one fight (he is not unbeatable in a fight, in every good mythos Bane breaks his back)(but his team could take out one at a time together), he couldn't track you down in their universe very well. I don't know how well he'd fair vs Hellboy Crew. Partly limited knowledge, but also, Hellboy has no Achilles heel, and there would probably be scant information about him and his team around for Batman to get anyway (unless it's after the second movie I suppose).
Defenders - I... don't think they'd have a lot of chance. Few in number vs forces like Skynet... Judge's and X-Men telepath nulls a lot of traps. If Vader doesn't try and blow up the planet (thereby incurring the wrath of Superman...I let the X-Men do it...Although there is much less chance DC universe would see it coming) then he'd have a good chance on sheer numbers provided he doesn't lead the assault and get EMP'd to death. Basically, Batman's forte is in being the hunter, he doesn't have much to combat armies coming after him.

Skynet/Judges/Robocop - Together because they have similar limitations.
Defenders - First and foremost, there is sweet fuck all they can do against the Death Star planet destruction. Barring that, they all basically have small or bigger armies at their disposal. Pretty much limited to fairly modern like tech, but do not underestimate the stuff we can do. They'd have a good chance defending you against Gotham, each other, the Predators (given they'd be using Hunt rules), Hellboy Crew (I think) and possibly X-Men. X-Men's versatility would really come into play (Colossus would be hard to stop and Shadowkat is hard to do anything against).
Hunters - They'd all have a pretty good chance against most. Things like large railguns (which shoot a projectile so fast that the friction ignites the air they fly through and when they hit something they fuck it up in ways physics barely understands) and drones that can shoot 5000 5mm grenades per minute with perfect accuracy are rather hard to stop.
Judges - Notable bonus ability, they can have telepaths. Telepaths of the "I can sense you through walls on the fly" and "I can sense your fears and fuck with your head so much I leave you a weeping mess, from a distance" variety. Also, the Judges are generally pretty hardcore as far as ruthless bastards go. And they regularly see serious action, so they're mostly all essentially veteran soldiers. My comic reading of Dredd is limited, so they may have more up their sleeve too.
Skynet - Remember, this is the system that took over the world. This AI is a the master of gaining control of well protected systems. I could see Skynet running rampant in the Star Wars universe. Also, despite what the movies show, when a well programmed computer is aiming, barring completely unforeseen circumstances, it doesn't miss.

So yeah, there are a fair few good contenders.
Predators would be my top, because in any universe they could hide you well and when not restricted by honour they are very hard to stop/deal with. Especially if they get home field advantage, then other teams that don't have their own ships have pretty much zero chance of finding you, so really only Star Wars would have a shot.
In contention with a lot of people, Vader would be one of my bottom choices. On his home field everyone gets the ability to come after you, everyone here is a good hunter and Imperial security is not exactly top notch vs infiltration. He has easily exploitable and obvious weaknesses and not much in the way of counters to others. Even if you let him use the force on everyone, force sense is notorious imprecise (it is VERY vague), still not much he can do against kamikaze Predator, still vulnerable to EMP, metal Colossus doesn't need to breathe (so force choke is moot), he can't defend much against telepaths, can't stop overwhelming fire, can't do shit to stop Liz Sherman burning him to death. He does have his Storm Troopers yes, but he is an arrogant motherfucker who likes to go after his prey personally without much of a guard force.

PS - Starfleet Command should have been in there instead of fuckin' Marv.

Well that was really laid out. not much to add, please do keep in mind we talking four X-men only wolverine included. Magneto is outside the X-men dynamic but part of the X-men universe. still he and Scarlet witch are not who I'd factor in as a "member" of the X-men team even if they cameo every now and again. the big guns are exclusive to the Xavier school so Shadow Cat, Colluses, Wolverine and Storm (for example). It all pins on the tech available to them in the X-men universe.

IMO Skynet is trump defender based off your arguments. only those with no reliability on tech can get close enough to the skynet system to do anything and thats a dicey game. The X-men specialise in it though as do Hellboy and co. but how would these guys find me? only Wolverine and the predators can track me without aid of fancy gadgets. and I rate Skynet could take em. Just replicate a few Omega Red scale terminators and handle business that way while hacking every automated hunter and possibly Vaders Death star and LS systems.

NEEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

[Dolmen 2.0]

Macros, on 17 August 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

NEEEEEERRRRRRRDDDDDDDDSSSSSSSSS get all the jobs!!!!!!

Fixed for grammatical accuracy.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 17 August 2013 - 10:36 AM

[Primateus]

Didn't Batman get his ass handed to him by Dredd in a crossover from the 90's?

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Dolmen+, on 17 August 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Well that was really laid out. not much to add, please do keep in mind we talking four X-men only wolverine included. Magneto is outside the X-men dynamic but part of the X-men universe. still he and Scarlet witch are not who I'd factor in as a "member" of the X-men team even if they cameo every now and again. the big guns are exclusive to the Xavier school so Shadow Cat, Colluses, Wolverine and Storm (for example). It all pins on the tech available to them in the X-men universe.

IMO Skynet is trump defender based off your arguments. only those with no reliability on tech can get close enough to the skynet system to do anything and thats a dicey game. The X-men specialise in it though as do Hellboy and co. but how would these guys find me? only Wolverine and the predators can track me without aid of fancy gadgets. and I rate Skynet could take em. Just replicate a few Omega Red scale terminators and handle business that way while hacking every automated hunter and possibly Vaders Death star and LS systems.

If I had to pick three (Wolverine is already chosen by default) X-Men for hunting...
I'd take Colossus, Polaris and Psylocke.
They are all great to excellent fighters. We have someone who basically can't be stopped or hurt. We have Magneto's daughter who has his powers (keep in mind it's megnetic field manipulation, not just metal, so they could reshape a lightsaber blade at will), plus some extras (she can look at the world via magnetic waves, thereby seeing Predators). We have an assassin/telepath (making finding you easier, and giving mind ability resistance to this team) who can use psionic attacks (which very few of these defenders have any defence against). And then there is the tireless, quick healing, cut-through-anything-clawed ball of rage that is Wolverine...
Not a team I'd want to face down.
Still rather hard to chase you down through space in the Predator universe. Against any other defenders though, I think I'd bet on this team.

I was running with a slightly different set of rules than you in my long post
One of the rules was that whoever is defending me, it is their universe that we get to hide out in. That accounts for a little home field advantage and allows those who can't carry their base of operations with them like the Star Wars team can to defend you there if they wish. Magneto, Scarlet Witch, Superman and Dr Strange won't be defending you, but they will stop the Death Star from blowing up the entire planet in their respective universes. So basically I am counting them as a trump card to planet destruction, but not counting them as stepping in to stop enemies just coming after you. This was in part to give someone other than Star Wars and Yuatja Elite a chance at all at being defenders.
Two main things about Skynet hacking. It would be very, very difficult to hack into technology that comes from another species and is entirely alien. I'd say Skynet would be up to it given time, but it would need some of the tech to use to try and work it out. Secondly, it still needs access to what it is trying to hack. So as an attacker in the Star Wars universe it'd have plenty of things virtually everywhere to learn the common base level codes and how to manipulate them. It'd then be prepared to run amok when it can get itself aboard the Death Star. As a defender it would have to work much harder. Try and grab computer systems from downed fighters and such to learn from. The main problem is Skynet has no defence vs planet destruction. If the Hunters had to take you alive it would give all defenders a bit more of a chance against the planet destruction lazy approach...

Oh, I forgot to mention Batman's main problem as a defender. He won't kill. And plenty of the hunters will keep coming till him or one of the other "Finest" slip up.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Lucifer, on 18 August 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

If I had to pick three (Wolverine is already chosen by default) X-Men for hunting...
I'd take Colossus, Polaris and Psylocke.
They are all great to excellent fighters. We have someone who basically can't be stopped or hurt. We have Magneto's daughter who has his powers (keep in mind it's megnetic field manipulation, not just metal, so they could reshape a lightsaber blade at will), plus some extras (she can look at the world via magnetic waves, thereby seeing Predators). We have an assassin/telepath (making finding you easier, and giving mind ability resistance to this team) who can use psionic attacks (which very few of these defenders have any defence against). And then there is the tireless, quick healing, cut-through-anything-clawed ball of rage that is Wolverine...
Not a team I'd want to face down.
Still rather hard to chase you down through space in the Predator universe. Against any other defenders though, I think I'd bet on this team.

Yeah the Xmen are saturated with some serious heavy hitters. Contrary to forum opinion I'd actually think of them as the greatest threat outside a Rampaging Hellboy and company. As hunters they can bring in some really good infiltration and retrieval units. The Defense they offer is singular in its brilliance. Shadow cat can actually save you from Planet destruction. Not sure how long she can keep it up for but with a good life support system she can keep you safe while the rest go on the offensive. still rather have Skynet because:

Lucifer, on 18 August 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

I was running with a slightly different set of rules than you in my long post
One of the rules was that whoever is defending me, it is their universe that we get to hide out in. That accounts for a little home field advantage and allows those who can't carry their base of operations with them like the Star Wars team can to defend you there if they wish. Magneto, Scarlet Witch, Superman and Dr Strange won't be defending you, but they will stop the Death Star from blowing up the entire planet in their respective universes. So basically I am counting them as a trump card to planet destruction, but not counting them as stepping in to stop enemies just coming after you. This was in part to give someone other than Star Wars and Yuatja Elite a chance at all at being defenders.
Two main things about Skynet hacking. It would be very, very difficult to hack into technology that comes from another species and is entirely alien. I'd say Skynet would be up to it given time, but it would need some of the tech to use to try and work it out. Secondly, it still needs access to what it is trying to hack. So as an attacker in the Star Wars universe it'd have plenty of things virtually everywhere to learn the common base level codes and how to manipulate them. It'd then be prepared to run amok when it can get itself aboard the Death Star. As a defender it would have to work much harder. Try and grab computer systems from downed fighters and such to learn from. The main problem is Skynet has no defence vs planet destruction.

Skynet in a normal universe can be uploaded onto any system via shuttle, adhesive projectile or satelite uplink. If it can manage the complexities of a quantum space singularity it is superior to any tech in the Star Wars world by virtue of raw processing power, its just not current on the base codes as you mentioned. If aware of its attackers, given prep time etc, launching an infiltration satellite pre-emptively to begin deciphering the death stars matrix is a possibility. If the deathstar just pops up and negates a need for travel then everyones screwed though. then I guess Skynet can assimilate Predator tech which I think may be on Par with the death star but quicker to the earth (I'd hope.) in that event skynet can create its own mass rail gun in response to the death star. As a defender all threats must be accounted for ALA the matrix(many pages can be borrowed from that book on eliminating the human threats via Dark worl tactics). In the Skynet universe the challenge is prep time as you say. If it were me I'd still bet on Skynet running the best and heaviest interference on all fronts. might not mean shit to the X-men team you mentioned above but thats ok. overwhelming the X-men by sheer numbers is a tried and proven tactic. All the guys listed get tired after all...save maybe the predators. those guys don't give a damn. might suicide bomb their way through the front door of everything.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 18 August 2013 - 06:24 PM

[Aptorian]

What X-men are allowed, every mutant who has ever been an X-man? What about non-mutant X-men? Because then you have:

Xavier who, depending upon the writer, is capable of sensing you and stopping you on the other side of the world if you have an organic brain - basically all you organic life forms are belong to him. Probably even Vader.

Forge who could build a star destroyer out of newspaper and a piece of string. Give him a day and he could have designed and built anything you could possibly conceive of that you'd need.

Legion and Cable are both capable of time travelling, teleportation, mind reading, super telekinesis and what ever else you can dream of.

Magneto will pull the iron straight out of your body. Or you know, he could just destroy a continent.

The Juggernaut cannot be stopped. Nuke him if you want, he's still coming.

These are some pretty spooky opponents.

Imagine if in some super desperate situation you had Forge super-charge Warlock and the Techno-virus and you just teleported Warlock within... say a continent of the victim?

Or Magik opened a portal to hell and invited friends over for tea?

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 18 August 2013 - 06:43 PM

[worry]

Nope. You just get Jubilee.

[Tiste Simeon]

Can I just say that this is one of my favourite threads ever? You guys are making me happy in my nerdiness... Sorry for the combo breaker I will get back to lurking now (don't have all the know-how of you lot...)

[Aptorian]

worry, on 18 August 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

Nope. You just get Jubilee.

You have somehow managed to concoct a scenario far more terrifying than anything I could ever imagine.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Aptorius, on 18 August 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

What X-men are allowed, every mutant who has ever been an X-man? What about non-mutant X-men? Because then you have:

Xavier who, depending upon the writer, is capable of sensing you and stopping you on the other side of the world if you have an organic brain - basically all you organic life forms are belong to him. Probably even Vader.

Forge who could build a star destroyer out of newspaper and a piece of string. Give him a day and he could have designed and built anything you could possibly conceive of that you'd need.

Legion and Cable are both capable of time travelling, teleportation, mind reading, super telekinesis and what ever else you can dream of.

Magneto will pull the iron straight out of your body. Or you know, he could just destroy a continent.

The Juggernaut cannot be stopped. Nuke him if you want, he's still coming.

These are some pretty spooky opponents.

Imagine if in some super desperate situation you had Forge super-charge Warlock and the Techno-virus and you just teleported Warlock within... say a continent of the victim?

Or Magik opened a portal to hell and invited friends over for tea?

As above stated, exclusive to the Xavier school. Wolverine being the most extreme case of estrangement which as a school instructor isn't very estranged. We talking Vanilla hey days here, no "one-handed wolverine, Magneto-leads-the-x-men, cyclops-needs-a-hair-cut" cross over non-sense.Very much on the fence about Mr OP himself, Legion. the writers behind him seemed to want in on the world destroyer weight class. So off of your list I'd leave Forge and cable at a stretch oh and ofcourse Xavier himself.

More than enough really.

Oh Gods I forgot Jubilee, heaven help us.

This post has been edited by Dolmen+: 18 August 2013 - 08:25 PM

[Abyss]

Magneto is an Xman these days, and Colossus was the Juggernaut for a while. Throw in i donno Longshot for good measure and the answer, naturally, is Wolverine.

But if we skip all the external elements and just focus on the characters and the question of which one you'd want as your bodyguard against the others, the the answer is still Wolverine, because if all else fails you can go on a hell of a bender before the shit hits.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Abyss, on 19 August 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Magneto is an Xman these days, and Colossus was the Juggernaut for a while. Throw in i donno Longshot for good measure and the answer, naturally, is Wolverine.

But if we skip all the external elements and just focus on the characters and the question of which one you'd want as your bodyguard against the others, the the answer is still Wolverine, because if all else fails you can go on a hell of a bender before the shit hits.

How did you manage to post in this thread and not succumb to instant nerditization? unreal...


Also Colossus was the Juggernaut? How the hell does that get passed on? is it like the flu?

since when was this a thing?

[Lucifer's Heaven]

Dolmen+, on 19 August 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Also Colossus was the Juggernaut? How the hell does that get passed on? is it like the flu?

since when was this a thing?

Hahaha! Yeah he was. I didn't forget about that I just intentionally excluded it. When it comes to both Marvel and DC I prefer the characters who are interesting. I constantly get annoyed at everybody and their mother having "super strength, speed and endurance" and I find characters who are just silly OP really boring. The Juggernaut is a perfect example. He bores me. He doesn't do anything interesting and his power is just "fuck you, I am invincible". Colossus I am okay with, because he can and does take damage even in his metal form. He's plenty vulnerable not in his metal form. And he's an awesome Russian dude (I do actually quite like his personality)
Magneto is a good example of interesting OP. He simply has one ability, complete mastery over magnetism. His power comes from really strong and really interesting use of it (excluding the times when the writer is just stupid). His weaknesses are simply working out vulnerabilities in the defences his powers provide.
This is why I hate Superman. He just does too much too well, and then they gave him an Achilles heel to make it so he could be in danger and others could have a chance. Then they made him vulnerable to magic as well, it's just boring.

I was trying to limit it to characters who were actual members of the X-Men for at least a little while. Not just ran with them for a bit, but official team members. They either took or gave orders. And I try to limit their powers to the average more generally used canon versions of it. So if it's not something they can do most of the time, I ignore it.

Dolmen+, on 18 August 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yeah the Xmen are saturated with some serious heavy hitters. Contrary to forum opinion I'd actually think of them as the greatest threat outside a Rampaging Hellboy and company. As hunters they can bring in some really good infiltration and retrieval units. The Defense they offer is singular in its brilliance. Shadow cat can actually save you from Planet destruction. Not sure how long she can keep it up for but with a good life support system she can keep you safe while the rest go on the offensive. still rather have Skynet because:

I too think of the X-Men as one of the biggest hunter threats. I mostly devoted so much time to Star Wars because I felt like there was so much to disagree with and it needed explaining. Remember people, no matter how bad-ass Vader seems, he was once the whiney, emo little sissy that is Anakin And he has weaknesses, vulnerabilities, arrogance and mental issues out the wazoo.

A point I will make about Skynet vs Yuatja Elite (Yuatja is the name of the Predator race in case you haven't guessed );
It would be a real challenge for Skynet to get a hold of Yuatja tech, especially as protector. At least as a hunter in the Yuatja universe there is a chance of getting the tech off a less experienced Predator.
The issue is that to Yuatja, letting others get a hold of Yuatja technology is a huge cause for shame. So much so it can lead to banishment, which is a massive deal to such an honour bound race. Remember these aliens sometimes commit hara-kiri for honour. If others do get a hold of this technology and if the shamed one doesn't get it back, high members of the society will go do so or destroy it. We are talking Elites and/or Clan Leaders. Clan Leaders are insanely good. To become one an individual has to acquire 3 Xenomorph Queen skulls from hunts, then with up to two hunting partners (who have their own queen trophies) they have to wipe out a xenomorph hive of at least 300 members, by hunting. If successful each of the surviving hunters get to start their own clans. Retrieving/destroying lost tech is one of the times they go pragmatism over honour as well.
So yeah, their tech would be ridiculously top of the line resistant to hacking, and getting some intact to research would be really goddamn hard. These are the Elite, and thermonuclear is considered a perfectly acceptable measure to stop the loss of tech.
Not impossible of course, and Skynet would be able to get in given time if it got some (as is always the case), but it would be harder and take longer than any of the others I'd say.

[Aptorian]

The thing about the Juggernaut is that he's a boring hero but an excellent villain. He can't be stopped in any traditional sense, only delayed. Which is where the challenge comes in. The hulk once punched him into space I believe. Nimrod hit him so hard he flew from some place in Canada to New York City. Spiderman submerged him in to fast drying cement which took him weeks to get out of.

It makes him a perfect villain for big assemblies of the X-men because they can throw pretty much everything they have at him with out it slowing him down much. In a scenario like this you could imagine that Vader could tractor beam him off planet but otherwise he's a pretty serious problem if you have to protect something.

[Abyss]

Dolmen+, on 19 August 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Abyss, on 19 August 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Magneto is an Xman these days, and Colossus was the Juggernaut for a while. Throw in i donno Longshot for good measure and the answer, naturally, is Wolverine.

But if we skip all the external elements and just focus on the characters and the question of which one you'd want as your bodyguard against the others, the the answer is still Wolverine, because if all else fails you can go on a hell of a bender before the shit hits.

How did you manage to post in this thread and not succumb to instant nerditization? unreal...

I'm just THAT good.

Dolmen+, on 19 August 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Also Colossus was the Juggernaut? How the hell does that get passed on? is it like the flu?
since when was this a thing?

Happened during some big stupid Marvel crossover event like three years ago. Jugs was possessed by some Big Bad so Colossus cut a deal with Cytorak to kick his ass.
Might have been the single and only cool moment in that mess, from what little i read of it.