[QuickTidal]

I have failed in my Olympic boycott and folded after a day...my desire to watch Women's Slopestyle overwhelmed my ire.

And now I feel soiled.

My fiance keeps telling me to simply support Canadian Athlete's, but I'm unimpressed with myself for caving.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 10 February 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I have failed in my Olympic boycott and folded after a day...my desire to watch Women's Slopestyle overwhelmed my ire.

And now I feel soiled.

My fiance keeps telling me to simply support Canadian Athlete's, but I'm unimpressed with myself for caving.

I am similarly conflicted, espe since it's on the screen frikkin EVERYWHERE i go...
...but watching Putin strip naked, chug a bottle of vodka, break the bottle into perfect halves with his teeth and then downhill ski the luge
course using the bottle-halves as skates was pretty damn impressive.

[Blend]

Aside from the odd posting on Facebook by my friends, I've stayed true to my Olympics boycott. Thanks to those same postings, however, I know that Canada is currently kicking some ass on the medal-count front (neck and neck with Netherlands for most medals at the moment).

[cerveza_fiesta]

Yes, it is very hard to stay away from news of the Olympics, since our main public broadcaster, the CBC, has devoted half of the hourly news update on the radio to olympic coverage. I generally boycott the olympics (summer and winter) because I don't really care either way who wins a medal. Not sure if involuntary absorption of olympic coverage by radio counts as breaking my boycott or not. Either way, yay for Canada for doing so well I guess.

One thing that is really striking me this olympic news cycle is just how much play the "gay angle" is getting in the media. This openly gay athlete told to do this, gay protesters arrested, visiting gay mayor from british columbia was refused a meeting with the sochi mayor....blah blah the list goes on. I mean, some of it is legit news, but CBC is playing up every little mote of "gay angle" with the same fervor they might cover a mass shooting or an airplane crash. Come to think of it, god forbid somebody hijacks a plane full of gay people and shoots them all before crashing into a sochi venue!

Joking aside, I do think the gay community has a point, and agree in principle that the russian gov't is a bunch of arseholes for banning gay propaganda and persecuting gays etc.... I'm just surprised to see the "gay angle" still being played up so heavily in the news here. I guess I figured they would have given up the ghost by now, realizing Russia is just going to continue giving everyone a massive fuck-you on the subject now and onward into the future.

Is coverage of the gay angle as big in other countries as it is here? Is it a necessary part of the media dialogue in other nations considering it will have net zero effect on Russia's policy toward anything? I'm not sure it is, but I guess it makes us all feel good to point out flaws in Russian law. Maybe that's the point in the end. Thoughts?

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 11 February 2014 - 04:46 PM

[Blend]

cerveza_fiesta, on 11 February 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Yes, it is very hard to stay away from news of the Olympics, since our main public broadcaster, the CBC, has devoted half of the hourly news update on the radio to olympic coverage. I generally boycott the olympics (summer and winter) because I don't really care either way who wins a medal. Not sure if involuntary absorption of olympic coverage by radio counts as breaking my boycott or not. Either way, yay for Canada for doing so well I guess.

One thing that is really striking me this olympic news cycle is just how much play the "gay angle" is getting in the media. This openly gay athlete told to do this, gay protesters arrested, visiting gay mayor from british columbia was refused a meeting with the sochi mayor....blah blah the list goes on. I mean, some of it is legit news, but CBC is playing up every little mote of "gay angle" with the same fervor they might cover a mass shooting or an airplane crash. Come to think of it, god forbid somebody hijacks a plane full of gay people and shoots them all before crashing into a sochi venue!

Joking aside, I do think the gay community has a point, and agree in principle that the russian gov't is a bunch of arseholes for banning gay propaganda and persecuting gays etc.... I'm just surprised to see the "gay angle" still being played up so heavily in the news here. I guess I figured they would have given up the ghost by now, realizing Russia is just going to continue giving everyone a massive fuck-you on the subject now and onward into the future.

Is coverage of the gay angle as big in other countries as it is here? Is it a necessary part of the media dialogue in other nations considering it will have net zero effect on Russia's policy toward anything? I'm not sure it is, but I guess it makes us all feel good to point out flaws in Russian law. Maybe that's the point in the end. Thoughts?

The point, at least for me, is that human beings are being treated as less than human in a country that is currently in the spotlight for an event that is supposed to promote ideals of equality of rights and international togetherness. Because Russia is front and centre, it's unacceptable that they should so openly treat gays the way they do. It's unacceptable that organizations like Occupy Pedophilia are allowed to exist unimpeded, and, in fact, basically encouraged by their government to do what they're doing (see attached for more info about the group) while the rest of the world competes in their backyard and basically looks the other way. Hosting the Olympics is supposed to make you look good on the world stage, but because of what they're doing and flagrantly pushing into our faces, I think it's unacceptable that Russia should come out of this untarnished - so I do my best to educate folks on what is really going on there, at least for this small denomination of people.

This affects me on a more personal level because I'm gay, it's certainly why I've spent so much time keeping track of what's going on, but it's not just to 'point out flaws in Russian law.' The reason Russia is the target for this is because they're currently in the spotlight. If the Olympics were being hosted in Nigeria, where simply being gay has been made illegal, or Uganda where the President is deliberating whether or not he should pass a similar law, or even India where a decision re laws making it illegal to have sex with someone of the same sex being deemed unconstitutional has recently been overturned by its Supreme Court, then I would be making the same or similar arguments for their situations.

I think the reason it's so prevalent in Canada's news is because we are one of something like 17 countries who have legalized Same Sex Marriage, and, arguably, one of the most advanced countries in terms of equal rights for members of the LGBTQ community. We are proud to be an accepting, multi-cultural country where, though it still exists, discrimination is, in general, frowned upon - and I think in today's world of LGBT rights being a 'sexy' issue, being viewed as progressive in those rights is important.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Blend, on 11 February 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 11 February 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Yes, it is very hard to stay away from news of the Olympics, since our main public broadcaster, the CBC, has devoted half of the hourly news update on the radio to olympic coverage. I generally boycott the olympics (summer and winter) because I don't really care either way who wins a medal. Not sure if involuntary absorption of olympic coverage by radio counts as breaking my boycott or not. Either way, yay for Canada for doing so well I guess.

One thing that is really striking me this olympic news cycle is just how much play the "gay angle" is getting in the media. This openly gay athlete told to do this, gay protesters arrested, visiting gay mayor from british columbia was refused a meeting with the sochi mayor....blah blah the list goes on. I mean, some of it is legit news, but CBC is playing up every little mote of "gay angle" with the same fervor they might cover a mass shooting or an airplane crash. Come to think of it, god forbid somebody hijacks a plane full of gay people and shoots them all before crashing into a sochi venue!

Joking aside, I do think the gay community has a point, and agree in principle that the russian gov't is a bunch of arseholes for banning gay propaganda and persecuting gays etc.... I'm just surprised to see the "gay angle" still being played up so heavily in the news here. I guess I figured they would have given up the ghost by now, realizing Russia is just going to continue giving everyone a massive fuck-you on the subject now and onward into the future.

Is coverage of the gay angle as big in other countries as it is here? Is it a necessary part of the media dialogue in other nations considering it will have net zero effect on Russia's policy toward anything? I'm not sure it is, but I guess it makes us all feel good to point out flaws in Russian law. Maybe that's the point in the end. Thoughts?

The point, at least for me, is that human beings are being treated as less than human in a country that is currently in the spotlight for an event that is supposed to promote ideals of equality of rights and international togetherness. Because Russia is front and centre, it's unacceptable that they should so openly treat gays the way they do. It's unacceptable that organizations like Occupy Pedophilia are allowed to exist unimpeded, and, in fact, basically encouraged by their government to do what they're doing (see attached for more info about the group) while the rest of the world competes in their backyard and basically looks the other way. Hosting the Olympics is supposed to make you look good on the world stage, but because of what they're doing and flagrantly pushing into our faces, I think it's unacceptable that Russia should come out of this untarnished - so I do my best to educate folks on what is really going on there, at least for this small denomination of people.

This affects me on a more personal level because I'm gay, it's certainly why I've spent so much time keeping track of what's going on, but it's not just to 'point out flaws in Russian law.' The reason Russia is the target for this is because they're currently in the spotlight. If the Olympics were being hosted in Nigeria, where simply being gay has been made illegal, or Uganda where the President is deliberating whether or not he should pass a similar law, or even India where a decision re laws making it illegal to have sex with someone of the same sex being deemed unconstitutional has recently been overturned by its Supreme Court, then I would be making the same or similar arguments for their situations.

I think the reason it's so prevalent in Canada's news is because we are one of something like 17 countries who have legalized Same Sex Marriage, and, arguably, one of the most advanced countries in terms of equal rights for members of the LGBTQ community. We are proud to be an accepting, multi-cultural country where, though it still exists, discrimination is, in general, frowned upon - and I think in today's world of LGBT rights being a 'sexy' issue, being viewed as progressive in those rights is important.

Point made. I agree the discussion belongs in the Canadian media's dialogue for the reasons you state. For folks like yourself that have fought long and hard to be recognized as equal, I understand that the coverage has a much deeper meaning, and the volume of national coverage quantifies in a way how far we've come as a society and how sensitive we've become to the issue. It's not only about tarnishing the reputation of Russia in our eyes, but about tarnishing the reputation of the whole event for tolerating a host country that so callously abuses of human rights.


But that's an easy answer in a way. Of course I support the LGBT community and of course I think Russia's name should be dragged in the mud for their policies RE gays, and of course the Olympics should promote moral ideals, but does all the name-dragging and media commentary accomplish anything in the end? I know you are making an effort to educate in this thread, and I'm really not trying to belittle that effort...just discussing something that's bugged me for the last few olympics now.

In Beijing, there was much ado in western media about boycotts and China's human rights / free speech policies, blah blah...so china puts in this big effort to clean up their act (or at least silence dissenters) for the *exact* duration of the games, the IOC does nothing of note, none of the attending countries boycot the games (of course) and afterward China goes back to doing whatever the hell they want. This time around it's Russia and their anti-gay policies, but it seems like Russia isn't even pretending to care how they're viewed and STILL none of the participating countries are boycotting or doing anything that remotely resembles "taking a stand", and Russia is STILL going to continue doing whatever the hell it wants afterward.

I'm trying to formulate an answer to a more fundamental question about what the Olympics is supposed to do. The Olympics is largely viewed as a holy ideal for togetherness, perfection, awesome sportiness and making shit tonnes of money, and of course peace, equality and lots of hugs for everyone. The mainstream media (at least) likes to tag on this *extra* function for the Olympics, where in addition to everything else it does, it is a major driver of political policy and a means of injecting moral concepts into the hearts and minds of morally corrupt societies. The visible evidence of the Olympics functioning in that capacity seems to be lacking however. Each time we go through this, the issues from the last olympics are forgotten, and the new olympics bring about a new host of issues that again, nobody takes a moral stand on.

It's so one-sided. The volume is up to 11 in Canadian media but in Russia they're in a sound-deadened room....and the rest of the local olympic media blitz drowns out whatever little bit of the message trickles through. Who cares if Russia has oppressive anti-gay laws...people are SKIING FAST...know what I mean? It's unfortunate that the Olympics gets the best world media coverage in a closed-off country like Russia, but simultaneously is about the worst possible venue to try and inject message that isn't directly related to sport - and the people that the message *does* reach are watching it on TV on the opposite side of the planet.

I guess it depends if your goal is public awareness on gay rights issues in Canada, or sea change in Russia. The olympics is pretty fantastic at the former but I seriously doubt its effectiveness at the latter.

That came out as pretty pessimistic...sorry

Am I way off base with that attitude? I'll admit I don't have the most nuanced geopolitical views, but I'm trying to be pragmatic. I'd be happy to see my assessment refuted anyway.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 11 February 2014 - 07:53 PM

[Blend]

I certainly don't disagree with you when you say that what Western Media says or does will have little to no effect when it comes to driving social policy, and that the Olympics are also not a driver of these same policies. For me, this is more personal. I boycott the Olympics this year not because I feel like my boycott, or any boycott, is going to drive any real change in Russia, I do it for my own morality. I just can't look the other way for the sake of sport - even if I know the majority of the rest of the world is.

That being said, I think that this issue in particular, because it's such a 'sexy' issue for today's media, has managed to be picked up by a large part of the world's population as one that matters. I will continue to monitor what is going on in Russia post-Olympics, and I will continue to do what I can to educate people about these things - the only way anything will change is if enough pressure to change is put on those that are making decisions. My pressure alone will do nothing, but one can hope that eventually it will become a serious enough issue that other countries may start doing things that will actually push Russia to make changes.

[Stormcat]

Me and all of my friends and family stand solidly with you on this. It isn't much but for everyone who stands up and speaks up it will allow for more people to have the courage to do the same. My boycott might not mean much in the big picture but it means everything to me and my loved ones.

This post has been edited by Stormcat: 12 February 2014 - 01:40 AM

[Gothos]

I recall just two successful olympic boycotts, and that was Moscow in 1980 and Los Angeles in 1984, and it took an escalating arms race between two major global powers/blocs to do it. As much as I recognize the plight of the gay community as much as any other persecuted minority, it's not exactly reaching that kind of scale as threat of nuclear annihilation at the height of the cold war. Expecting countries to boycott an olympic games over this is a folly.
I'm more or less boycotting them, but not really of any conscious choice - I'm not much interested in winter sports and I can't be bothered to watch. I'll hear of results in some disciplines (ski jumping, cross country, biathlon) but not the events. Just don't like sports all that much I guess!

As for CF's question, I don't think there's anything being said in our media about the gay situation in Russia at all. Nothing at all.



PS. LGBTQ? What's the Q and when did they add that?

[Shinrei]

Japanese (language) media hasn't touched on the issue. There's one English language newsite geared mostly towards expats that has brought it up in the context of Prime Minister Abe visiting the games and how relations with Russia appear to be "thawing" after years of cold shoulders. The J-gov doesn't appear to care one way or another.

I myself am watching some parts of the games, I admit.

[Cause]

LBGTQ
I think it's lesbian bi gay trans and questioning, the Q also stands infor anybody who feels the other four categories don't fit them excactly. That's what I seem to recall when I looked it up a while back

I too am boycotting the Olympics which sadly means nothing since I would not watch anyway. I'm normally very cynical about protest since I have always felt they achieve nothing. Now I really want to protest something myself and I feel that my cynicism has bit me in the ass. My boycot means nothing, my goverment won't care if I write them a letter, puttin won't are if I write him a letter, coke woke notice if I stop drinkin tier product, I cut back for health reasons already anyway.

Most people who I have discussed it with are gay and agree with me it's disgusting. I think I feel sympathetic because it reminds me of nazi germany, looking at blends post I don't think that's overly dramatic but else wise most South Africans don't seem to care.

If anyone can tell me a concrete way to protest I'd like to participate. I guess it's given me new appreciation for those very few people in the world who would actually get on a plane and spend their money and a huge chunk of the time to fight something like this. Sadly my cynicism again tells me they are too few, and accomplish too little.

I guess for know the meaningless gesture that my thoughts are with you blend and the lgbtq community of Russia is the best I have got and my own commitment to not judge a person based on their sexual preferences. Whether it genetic or a choice so what!

[Blend]

The Q stands for Queer. Some people don't identify with terms like Gay or Bisexual or Lesbian. Some guys like to sleep with guys, or girls, or guys and girls at the same time, or mostly by themselves, or whatever. Queer is an identifier that doesn't necessarily lump you in with a group of people.

[Blend]

Gothos, on 12 February 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I recall just two successful olympic boycotts, and that was Moscow in 1980 and Los Angeles in 1984, and it took an escalating arms race between two major global powers/blocs to do it. As much as I recognize the plight of the gay community as much as any other persecuted minority, it's not exactly reaching that kind of scale as threat of nuclear annihilation at the height of the cold war. Expecting countries to boycott an olympic games over this is a folly.
I'm more or less boycotting them, but not really of any conscious choice - I'm not much interested in winter sports and I can't be bothered to watch. I'll hear of results in some disciplines (ski jumping, cross country, biathlon) but not the events. Just don't like sports all that much I guess!

As for CF's question, I don't think there's anything being said in our media about the gay situation in Russia at all. Nothing at all.



PS. LGBTQ? What's the Q and when did they add that?

Gothos - where ya from? I thought you were UK? I know I've read things on Huffington Post about the sitch in Russia.

[Gothos]

thought bisexual already covered that?

and I'm from that poor strip of land shoveled between Germany and Russia, Poland.

[Abyss]

Blend, on 12 February 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

The Q stands for Queer. Some people don't identify with terms like Gay or Bisexual or Lesbian. Some guys like to sleep with guys, or girls, or guys and girls at the same time, or mostly by themselves, or whatever. Queer is an identifier that doesn't necessarily lump you in with a group of people.

Tho i think i've also seen it as 'Questioning', meaning 'undecided', ....or just greedy.

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

To be cynical on the recent topic, there is a reason that the LBGQ aspect is being played up on Canadian media, and moreso by Canadian politicians, greater than the humans rights violations prevalent in China were. China is a key trade partner to Canada and a market that we are looking to invest in further in terms of exports. There is less trade between Canada and Russia, and little room for trade expansion as our key exports are resources Russia also has.

To be cynical about the topic in general, I believe much of the uproar is due to how recently the laws regarding distribution of propoganda were enacted. I really don't remember much outcry regarding LGBTQ rights, or human rights in general, when Qatar was awarded the World Cup. There was outcry, but it was mostly about FIFA being corrupt and bribery.

That is not to say that there shouldn't be outcry, or that what is occuring in Russia is in any way acceptable, but in my view some things (eg. the aforementioned media coverage) will tend to focus on certain situautions.

[D'iversify]

Gwynn ap Nudd, on 13 February 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

To be cynical on the recent topic, there is a reason that the LBGQ aspect is being played up on Canadian media, and moreso by Canadian politicians, greater than the humans rights violations prevalent in China were. China is a key trade partner to Canada and a market that we are looking to invest in further in terms of exports. There is less trade between Canada and Russia, and little room for trade expansion as our key exports are resources Russia also has.

To be cynical about the topic in general, I believe much of the uproar is due to how recently the laws regarding distribution of propoganda were enacted. I really don't remember much outcry regarding LGBTQ rights, or human rights in general, when Qatar was awarded the World Cup. There was outcry, but it was mostly about FIFA being corrupt and bribery.

That is not to say that there shouldn't be outcry, or that what is occuring in Russia is in any way acceptable, but in my view some things (eg. the aforementioned media coverage) will tend to focus on certain situautions.

Whilst I very much support the outcry about Russia's new laws, I share your cynicism. At the end of the day, whilst Russia's government is in many cases turning a blind eye to homophobic abuse and violence (but note that it has been arresting and imprisoning those guilty of murder for the most part), homosexuality is still officially legal (except in Chechnya, which is one of Russia's most autonomous regions), which is a better situation than in many countries, such as Uganda, Qatar, parts of Nigeria and Saudi Arabia, which are nominally Western allies. And laws against 'gay propaganda' existed in Britain until the early 2000s (http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Section_28); US anti-sodomy laws were still active in many states until struck down by the Supreme Court in 2003 (http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States).

There is a map here for which countries have what laws: http://en.wikipedia....f_homosexuality

This post has been edited by D'iversify: 13 February 2014 - 11:16 AM

[Cause]

https://www.youtube....e&v=ZrjDznOSEdE

Pretty cool video

Apologies wrong video fixed

This post has been edited by Cause: 13 February 2014 - 01:07 PM

[Gust Hubb]

Another video for you chaps. I am not watching the Olympics (mostly cause I'm not a sports person, but I definitely throw in my support with your views on Russia's lack of human decency).

But since you can't watch the Olympics, don't feel bad; you aren't missing the really good stuff that happened eons ago:

This post has been edited by Gust Hubb: 13 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

[QuickTidal]

Gwynn ap Nudd, on 13 February 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

To be cynical on the recent topic, there is a reason that the LBGQ aspect is being played up on Canadian media, and moreso by Canadian politicians, greater than the humans rights violations prevalent in China were. China is a key trade partner to Canada and a market that we are looking to invest in further in terms of exports. There is less trade between Canada and Russia, and little room for trade expansion as our key exports are resources Russia also has.

To be cynical about the topic in general, I believe much of the uproar is due to how recently the laws regarding distribution of propoganda were enacted. I really don't remember much outcry regarding LGBTQ rights, or human rights in general, when Qatar was awarded the World Cup. There was outcry, but it was mostly about FIFA being corrupt and bribery.

That is not to say that there shouldn't be outcry, or that what is occuring in Russia is in any way acceptable, but in my view some things (eg. the aforementioned media coverage) will tend to focus on certain situautions.

While the above may be true, I don't think laying down as a country and just accepting it, since there is historical evidence that we've let other instances slide, is the right answer. You can be cynical all you like, but citing past instances where the world didn't get involved (on the scale that it is with Russia) is not a reason NOT to do so now. If anything we need to grasp onto these instances/situations where the world ACTUALLY takes notice (unlike with China), and let the righteous outcry fly.