[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 24 hours and 50 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
2 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

[Gait]

Tellan, on 30 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

That's nice! No kills, but now were literally just redoing day 1

Alkend, on 30 July 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

Tellan, on 30 July 2013 - 10:20 PM, said:

That's nice! No kills, but now were literally just redoing day 1

interesting that nobody died
i hesitate to draw conclusions but that leads me to wonder if the killers only being able to kill people in certain factions may be correct
in any case that line of mechanics discussion will become a slippery speculation road so i shall say no more.

Tellan, on 30 July 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

This lends credence (imo) to the killers can only kill people in the castle they're besieging... Makes it better for us!

Alkend, on 30 July 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Tellan, on 30 July 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

This lends credence (imo) to the killers can only kill people in the castle they're besieging... Makes it better for us!

i am wary of drawing any conclusions from it though i thought the same thing you did
but itll be wifom all the way down with the possibility of ending up with inno role discussion
barghast's no mechanic discussion DOES apply here
even if we have little else to go on

I don't know whether to laugh at the comedy value or face-palm at the stupidness.

Tellan: "hey, this convoluted thing may be true!"
Alkend: "I got nearly lynched for that convoluted thing so I won't say it may be true but I think it is!"
Tellan: "Yeah, I know right, how awesome!"
Alkend: "I thought it, but I can't say it so I'll holier than thou refer to someone who said so but say I thought it".

Or you know, scum withheld killing to enforce this idea, or to give credence to the recruiting speculation, or hit a BP or whatever.
Fact is, the OP says generals = killers, plural. Imnsho that's what open to them, only. 6 game days with 5 scum to get to parity. Adding something twisted like the above would probably increase the game length by anywhere from 2-4 days, which is going to swing things straight into our favor. There's no way we will not be lynching scum that way, and at some point, there will be too many PIs for scum to deal with.

Equally, adding a recruiter will speed the game up too much - not to mention TMDI is too low for it.

Vote Alkend.


I am going for the theory that you dodged a lynch yesterday and are now trying to plant an idea in our heads, maybe together with your partner.
If so, this clearly falls into the Baldrick category of cunning plans, but hey.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 23 hours and 11 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
3 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

[Korbas]

Hang on, has anyone actually fine back and looked at Alkend's posts for themselves? Because all I'm seeing is a lot of discussion of mechanics, a basic defence against the charge of 'not making waves' and some vague pointing toward Liosan for aggressive play. I understand the desire for a lynch after day one timed out, but I don't really think that 'not enough people have bothered to check when day times out' is the same as 'resistance to the lynch'. Can we actually think about who we are voting, rather than having a knee-jerk reaction to a failed lynch?

For example, I think Desra is much more suspicious. The defence she made was rather over-the-top for what was essentially a single vote. Rashan has said straight up that he won't vote for her, which ribs alarm bells for me. And in addition, in reference to the last post that I made before day timed out, Gait suggested that Barghast could be warning someone that they are talking too much about mechanics. The most likely person the warning was aimed at would be Desra.

[Kalse]

It's not that he just defends a couple of people, maybe I should have expanded. Look at his posts and what they do to the thread. Firstly Barghast and Jalan talking, this is their latest post, then Alkend pops up, he would welcome us discussing roles from town side because "no one should slip up". The last sentence is what stands out, "don't be a kill joy Barghy", telling someone not to do something, he does the same with Liosan, "you are being aggressive" another way of telling someone not to play a certain way. Yet confrontation gives us answers.

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Well, Barghy, looks like you semi-answered (presciently) while I was slowly posting so even though your flippant analysis of the last few games is mostly correct, I must point out that no one was talking about any roles except scum roles. Do you really think it helps scum to get a number of possible scenarios out the for contemplation? Unless we summarily adopt one and pursue it to the exclusion of all else, I say we are merely brainstorming.

more like last 70+ games.

and yes, throwing out number of killers doesn't do anything (unless they don't know each other). But throwing out spec about symps could be helpful to them. and problem with spec is, once ppl start they rarely know when to stop.

Anyhow, my point was quite simply is that rigth now we don't have much to go on. And we won't at least for a few days. That's normal, just as lynching townies is normal, and we should not be making a huge deal out if it. But if I go on talking about this, i'll just start repeating what we've already discussed ad nauseum numerous times.

Alkend, on 29 July 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

You will admit this line of reasoning is at least slightly better than Ye Olde Dragonne Coitus?

woah now
lets not go that far
...
super seriously tho role speculation is an inherent part of any game over tmdi 2, especially one that has some kind of pseudo-faction mechanic that might affect gameplay
nobody is going to slip up and accidentally reveal healer or finder or something
i cant think of a single game where town have lost because of mechanics debate on day one
tldr dont be a killjoy barghy

Then here, Barghast says we should just vote off a low poster

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 29 July 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 18 hours and 46 minutes remaining

19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Liosan ( D'riss )
1 Vote for D'riss ( Liosan )

Players not voted: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

Fener's not playing. SO much for that,

I'll need to look who has the least posts atm.

Alkend, on 29 July 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Fener's not playing. SO much for that,

I'll need to look who has the least posts atm.

when we are only ten hours into day one?

Alkend rubbishes this idea. Again instead of wanting to pressure people into posting he wants to give people a by.

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Hmmm yep Hanas does more than do a drive by post. So much for that one odd post feeling I was getting. Maybe we should do a pressure vote on say Trake. Well I'm probably off for a while now.

Whereas Liosan thinks it a good idea and selects Trake as a potential target.

Alkend, on 29 July 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Hmmm yep Hanas does more than do a drive by post. So much for that one odd post feeling I was getting. Maybe we should do a pressure vote on say Trake. Well I'm probably off for a while now.

you are bizarrely aggressive
cant say i am a fan

This is what irks me. How is Liosan picking a low poster to vote for aggressive. Desra is the one who can be construed as aggressive. It's just a weird post.

[Kalse]

Korbas then points a finger at D'riss. Who is first to comment and rubbish yet another way forward for town/lynch?

Alkend, on 30 July 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

Korbas, on 29 July 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

In terms of specific suspicions, D'riss' comment on recruiting raised flags for me, but that could simply be a reaction to the number of high-TDMI games we've had recently.

in drisss defence the previous warring states had recruiting so i can understand the thought process
but the tmdi and setup here doesnt seem high enough imo

Alkend. Slowing the talk, rather than agree and point a finger at D'riss or say nothing and let D'riss respond he decides to jump on and nip that avenue in the bud.

Next Okaros makes a case sorta..

Okaros, on 30 July 2013 - 12:57 AM, said:

Barghast, on 29 July 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Barghy, are you trying to get us to leave off talking about the numbers? I assume you have a better topic to discuss.

At the moment, Desra's unhealthy fascination with role distribution seems a good topic. Howeve, given town's track record of making idiots of themselves on day 1 (me included), I'm not willing to pursue that avenue too vigorously. yet.

Role distribution I don't think is anything to consider scummy, especially not on day 1. It's healthy and natural and hasn't IMO affected any low TMDI games much that I've ever seen.

But, while we're on the topic of Desra:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

So, I just took some time to read over all the intro stuff careful. Here's my question: do the (what I am assuming is) 2 town factions win together? I am assuming so, otherwise it would be more a faction game than a town vs scum game, but if that's the case, what's the point of having 2 town factions besides the fact that it's two castles?

Could all town maybe just count as one faction, and there are 2 scum factions?

See D'riss this is a valid speculation.

Desra, I'd assume that they would win together as a win by town helps even the playing field by weakening the scum team. Though for the continued story I'm curious how Shin will play it if town wins yet scum is able to eliminate one town faction entirely.

So then what are we thinking number wise? 3 scum, 2 teams of 8 town each? 5 scum, 2 teams of 7 town each?

Considering we only have to kill off the scum general(s), it seems to me that scum would have a slightly bigger than normal team, so I'd lean more towards 5 scum. Any thoughts?

My initial guess is that there will be 2 groups of scum killers (generals) since there are 2 clans of town forces. Maybe a symp for each killer who knows only his boss. Would the 2 killers know each other? Any comms? Are there other scum roles besides these 2?

A more proficient game creating player could perhaps comment on balance at this point.

I am trying to wrap my head around it, and it's tough.

See, if there are 19 players, I think it stands to reason that there are 2 equal teams of town players, and 1 team of scum with uneven numbers - thus, 5 scum, and 7 town per castle (or some similar permutation). The thing that's throwing me for a bit of a loop is the 2 castles thing.

What would be interesting is if the scum were 2 pairs of paired killers and a 'general'. Scum killer pairs can only kill members of town in one of the castles, so having a slightly bigger than normal scum team would be balanced out by the fact that they can only technically kill off half of town each. This could also mean that we need only kill off the scum general to win the game.

This is a really poor idea, because as the OP indicates, the RI PM is:

"You are charactername, a soldier of Arai/Edo castle. You have been charged with overseeing a group of soldiers and are determined to throw back any and all attacks by Fujiwari forces. You are RI."

There's no mention of clan in there. Yeah, there's two castles, but if this were seriously a game with a town divided along clan lines, the PMs would have to indicate that you are a Uesugi or a Miura. So there's no chance of this. Alkend and Lio also added their support to this craziness:

Alkend, on 29 July 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

afternoon folks
@desra, i think you have a point when you say that it's probably two even town factions and then the scum have the uneven number. the two castles mechanic might be a gimmick but i see it making sense that the scum can only target members of the castle they're laying siege to
i guess we will see

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Jalan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Liosan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Desra, on 29 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

So, I just took some time to read over all the intro stuff careful. Here's my question: do the (what I am assuming is) 2 town factions win together? I am assuming so, otherwise it would be more a faction game than a town vs scum game, but if that's the case, what's the point of having 2 town factions besides the fact that it's two castles?

Could all town maybe just count as one faction, and there are 2 scum factions?

See D'riss this is a valid speculation.

Desra, I'd assume that they would win together as a win by town helps even the playing field by weakening the scum team. Though for the continued story I'm curious how Shin will play it if town wins yet scum is able to eliminate one town faction entirely.

So then what are we thinking number wise? 3 scum, 2 teams of 8 town each? 5 scum, 2 teams of 7 town each?

Considering we only have to kill off the scum general(s), it seems to me that scum would have a slightly bigger than normal team, so I'd lean more towards 5 scum. Any thoughts?

My initial guess is that there will be 2 groups of scum killers (generals) since there are 2 clans of town forces. Maybe a symp for each killer who knows only his boss. Would the 2 killers know each other? Any comms? Are there other scum roles besides these 2?

A more proficient game creating player could perhaps comment on balance at this point.

Yeah this makes sense as they are also besieging two castles. I wonder if the killers can only kill town memebers of the castle they are beseging?

Now, I'm not saying that this is 100% definitely a slip, but there's a CHANCE that Desra is scum and already trying to cloud the game and town's information early, but didn't think it through and realize the obvious problem of clan names because Desra's own scum role PM doesn't have the clan name omission (ie it says YOU ARE FUJIWARI NYAGGHHHH).

OR, there is a chance that Alkend or Lio so happily supported the idea because of the same reasons.

A totally weak and improbable case, but if nothing better comes along, I think Desra would be a better choice for the necessary day 1 lynch than anyone else for this reason, and Alkend and Lio being not quite as good as Desra but still better than everyone else choices.

So Desra, Alkend and Liosan fingered by Okaros. Next post is Okaros and does he comment on Desra at all? Does he put a flame to the tinders that Okaros is laying? Or again does he slow the thread, break up the discussion and give us another dead end?

Alkend, on 30 July 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

@Okaros the castles belong to different clans
"laying siege to the one remaining stronghold of the Miura, and one of the outer castles of the Uesugi clan in order to increase their influence in the Kanto region" from the opening
castles/clans/factions are all synonyms

Vote Alkend

Possible scum, possible symp or bad town. I don't see him as a contributor.

[Galain]

Agreed on Alkend as a good place to start. Missed the lynch yesterday, not going to miss this one:

Vote Alkend

Game is very quiet, all our usual high posters are therefore either scum or roled town?

[Trake]

Mockra, on 31 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

Ok. We fail to secure a lynch. No one dies in the night. I tend to understand, at least somewhat, how we failed to rally enough votes in time to get a lynch due to the unusual start and end times of day 1. I think many players are use to having more time into Tuesday once the game starts. Canada and the U.S. are use to having nearly all of Tuesday, even.

We will just have to hope day 1 wasn't indicative of how the rest of the days will go, especially after having just endured watching the entire last week of Mafia 103.

The lack of any deaths during the night is something quite different though, indeed. I see a couple theories as to why there were no deaths at night, and at this point in the game there's no telling, but I was thinking it may have been something as simple or stupid as someone not getting their NA in on time, or just not getting back online in time. We really have no idea, especially lacking the usual day 1 information gleaned from a lynch.

The only real information that I feel even slightly credible is the possibility that there may have been resistance to the Alkend lynch. I'm guilty of not getting a vote in on Alkend in time myself, so I can't really point fingers, but I can attempt to remedy the situation. I'm going with an Alkend vote for now. I'll change as needed depending on new information throughout the rest of the day.

VOTE ALKEND

Just gonna point out that night ends when actions are in. Shin ended night early because of this.
vote Alkend
Back at break

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 18 hours and 50 minutes remaining
19 Players still alive: Alkend, Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Gait, Galain, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Okaros, Rashan, Tellan, Trake

10 votes to lynch, 10 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Liosan ( Alkend )
6 Votes for Alkend ( Okaros, Mockra, Gait, Kalse, Galain, Trake )

Players not voted: Anthras, Barghast, Cast, D'riss, Desra, Eloth, Hanas, Jalan, Korbas, Liosan, Rashan, Tellan

[Jalan]

Galain, on 31 July 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Agreed on Alkend as a good place to start. Missed the lynch yesterday, not going to miss this one:

Vote Alkend

Game is very quiet, all our usual high posters are therefore either scum or roled town?

yes, I think it's odd too.


I'm back for today, glad it won't take forever to catch up, sad there isn't a lot to chew on

[Korbas]

Fair enough, just wanted to make sure that people knew why they were voting. It's frustrating to see people jump on a lynch so quickly when there us so much time left. A bit of discussion would be nice.

[Korbas]

I need to have more of a think about the case on Alkend. I also need some sleep. I'll be back before time out to leave a vote.

[D'riss]

Back and caught up. I agree there is merit in lynching Alkend to see if the non-lynch yesterday was due to some kind of resistance, however with 18 hours left in Day 2 and 6 votes already on him, I think we need to see if there are any other cases for today. I'm going to reread and see if anything else stands out.

[Jalan]

@ D'riss -I didn't feel resistance yesterday as much as what seemed like disinterest, but that's just me.

I will vote along that way today, but not for many hours.

[Hanas]

I see that today is a continuation of yesterday. I am going to go and read back over Alkends posts and see if anything jumps out at me.

[Anthras]

Mockra, on 31 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

The lack of any deaths during the night is something quite different though, indeed. I see a couple theories as to why there were no deaths at night, and at this point in the game there's no telling, but I was thinking it may have been something as simple or stupid as someone not getting their NA in on time, or just not getting back online in time. We really have no idea, especially lacking the usual day 1 information gleaned from a lynch.

underlined the relevant bit.

PS said that we were resolving becuase all actions were in.

So either killers can't attack on night one, BP or lucky heal.

[Galain]

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Mockra, on 31 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

The lack of any deaths during the night is something quite different though, indeed. I see a couple theories as to why there were no deaths at night, and at this point in the game there's no telling, but I was thinking it may have been something as simple or stupid as someone not getting their NA in on time, or just not getting back online in time. We really have no idea, especially lacking the usual day 1 information gleaned from a lynch.

underlined the relevant bit.

PS said that we were resolving becuase all actions were in.

So either killers can't attack on night one, BP or lucky heal.

Or, indeed, the speculated town/target mechanic, or that they chose not to. Or they were Guarded.

For that matter it may be a two part NA - infiltrate a castle one night, try slaughtering the inhabitants the next. Would make the two separate towns make a bit more sense. In this case though the reduced kill volume inclines me to a higher number of killers.

[Rashan]

Anthras, on 31 July 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

Mockra, on 31 July 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

The lack of any deaths during the night is something quite different though, indeed. I see a couple theories as to why there were no deaths at night, and at this point in the game there's no telling, but I was thinking it may have been something as simple or stupid as someone not getting their NA in on time, or just not getting back online in time. We really have no idea, especially lacking the usual day 1 information gleaned from a lynch.

underlined the relevant bit.

PS said that we were resolving becuase all actions were in.

So either killers can't attack on night one, BP or lucky heal.

Or they announced to PS that they didn't want to do a NK? Was it Khell who did that to just fuck with town?

[Anthras]

We just don't have enough info at the moment.

So in an attempt to get more information

Vote Alkend

[Barghast]

Morning. Got to work, will catch up