[Ultama]

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

Alkend was an independent player with a non-counting vote? Or do you think someone else on the train placed a vote which didn't count?

#901

[Ryllandaras]

Yes, I was just reading over that post of yours actually. It's as much speculation as mine is. I wouldn't rule out anyone because of their particular position on the lynch train.

[Ryllandaras]

Also, if you're suspicious of Emurlahn, then why aren't you placing a vote that way instead of throwing out Barghast and Okaros?

[Ultama]

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Also, if you're suspicious of Emurlahn, then why aren't you placing a vote that way instead of throwing out Barghast and Okaros?

First, yes you did mention the Mockra vote. apologies.

As for my speculations: they are just that.

If I go with the single alt voting on both trains, I am left with a conclusion that the alt is likely to be Emurlahn or Ultama. I think that I can justifiably argue that I don't think it's the latter.

Back to day 2: I don't know who the puppet master is. Why go after the puppet unless that's the only choice?

Since I have many choices for the puppets and very little clue as to who the master(s) might be, I voted for an extremely low poster. I would very much like to get a lynch in this week. The timer freezes again in 20 hours or so.

Don't like my vote choice? Supply somebody else along with a reason.

I'm also a bit bemused by Fener's thought that the initial alts may not be Vord. I don't think that is likely but it is a possibility.

[Ryllandaras]

Ultama, on 03 July 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 12:32 AM, said:

Also, if you're suspicious of Emurlahn, then why aren't you placing a vote that way instead of throwing out Barghast and Okaros?

First, yes you did mention the Mockra vote. apologies.

As for my speculations: they are just that.

If I go with the single alt voting on both trains, I am left with a conclusion that the alt is likely to be Emurlahn or Ultama. I think that I can justifiably argue that I don't think it's the latter.

Back to day 2: I don't know who the puppet master is. Why go after the puppet unless that's the only choice?

Since I have many choices for the puppets and very little clue as to who the master(s) might be, I voted for an extremely low poster. I would very much like to get a lynch in this week. The timer freezes again in 20 hours or so.

Don't like my vote choice? Supply somebody else along with a reason.

I'm also a bit bemused by Fener's thought that the initial alts may not be Vord. I don't think that is likely but it is a possibility.

I agree with looking for the puppet master, of course. But I doubt you'll find it among Barghast and Okaros somehow.

A second successful lynch will be extremely useful, when we can finally compare two trains. It may turn some of this speculation into a bit more than that. And, with the timer freezing again soon, we will surely have enough time to get that lynch in (unless everyone goes AWOL).

[Ultama]

There are a lot of assumptions being made in my speculations and that of everyone else.

The initial two extra alts are Vord. They may not be. I think they are but...

The initial two extra alts are being controlled by separate players.

Venesara was a player and not an alt. If one person is controlling both of the initial two alts getting one modkilled might not be a bad idea.

The daily report is correct. That's a shaky one imo.

Tiamatha and/or Rashan are not Vord and their CFs have been manipulated. Not bloody likely but...

[Ultama]

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I agree with looking for the puppet master, of course. But I doubt you'll find it among Barghast and Okaros somehow.

A second successful lynch will be extremely useful, when we can finally compare two trains. It may turn some of this speculation into a bit more than that. And, with the timer freezing again soon, we will surely have enough time to get that lynch in (unless everyone goes AWOL).

First, we have two trains to compare.

Second, what exactly is wrong with a low poster hunt at this juncture?

Third, we have had 1 successful lynch in 3 days. What makes you think that we will "surely" get one on day 4?

Fourth, yesterday was a national holiday for at least 3 players. Tomorrow night starts a national holiday for 6+ more players. Which makes the "unless everyone goes AWOL" very much possible.

Fifth, would you care to toss out a name for consideration?

Sixth, why are you deflecting from Barghast with only a singe vote on him?

Seventh, why is it ok for you to float your "let's vote these people" and not for me?

Ryllandaras, on 28 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Those are the ones most suspicious to me from the train. I'd prefer Ultama first, Pran for keeping mainly shtum, Alkend for Vord talk, and then Trake.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Tellan, on 28 June 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Fener, on 28 June 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Trake, on 27 June 2013 - 11:27 PM, said:

Ultama, on 27 June 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

Sorta. I had other issues with you. But then I read Trake reply to your analysis of him. That first sentence was slightly strange. You thought Fener was becoming less likely to be vord due to Fener's reveal info. But then you hammer. At the last possible second. So yes I think ther was something off about it.

I don't think Tellan did that maliciously. If he wanted to be quiet and not reveal he was in control of alts, he wouldn't have voted at all; then the day would have ended a minute later, possibly without a hammer, and there was a chance we wouldn't have known what was going on. In Tellan's position I would have done the same, because CF is better than no CF.

My self-hammer was written out in another tab waiting on me to submit it, I was typing out another bit of info to go on, posted it early when realising the time, saw the hammer had come in, deleted last post and closed my own hammer tab. So if anyone was wondering the deleted post wasn't a self-hammer, that never made it as far as the board. Then realised I wasn't actually dead.

It was definitely not malicious on my part, and as Trake graciously pointed out, I wanted both a CF and to wait as long as possible to allow Fener to tell us what he wanted to. Imo, it was wifom-y to assume Fener really was going to self-vote (sorry, this is mafia and you never know), hence me hammering in the last minute. And of course, if no one hammered, we wouldn't even know at this point that there is some sort of double alt on the train and/or Fener has an LP (the latter I don't think so but whatever).

Popped in to say I really doubt Tiam's claims. Unfortunately, I have nothing to back that up, but then again, I'm not the one telling everyone I'm Alera and whatnot in the first place. >___>

I don't know if I have anything else to say, I've been sort of keeping up with the thread throughout the day, but lemme read back over these last few pages.

Tellan, on 28 June 2013 - 01:03 AM, said:

Tiamatha, on 27 June 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

-snip-

Edit 2: I've been allowed to add a bit more now as I should have told you this bit too:

IF THERE IS A TIE BETWEEN TWO OR MORE, MODS CHOOSE THROUGH RANDOMISER.

^This edit... I mean, that's either a really good move for someone faking it, or it's a sign she's not bullshitting us? I honestly can't tell which, but I thought it was interesting enough to point out at least...

Tellan, on 28 June 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Well, the votes are spread pretty thinly around. I really don't trust Tiam and that whole deal, and if she affects everyone beneficially (i.e., whatever fury and active/passive we vote on applies to all), is it really a big loss if we're wrong? Other than lost time. And, yes, I'm sure somebody could use a boost on something somewhere, I know I would like some buffer, but you may not even get what you vote for either.

Plus, I just don't even think it's true - in past games, dont mods normally announce weird roles entering the fray on later days or something? Or if there has to be something to vote on? Thinking back to the 100 game, they announced the whole Survivor island thing, which was an overnight voting process. As someone else already pointed out, this whole deal sounds like a mechanic, not something that needs an alt.

Basically agreeing with NG and Shelly above me here, and I'd rather not risk waiting to see, especially if we may not get anything conclusive. Also, what are our other possibilities? There's been a bit of discussion on others, but Tiam has gone and drawn a lot of attention to herself. Blech.

I'll probably end up voting Tiam when I get up tomorrow, unless she answers everyone's questions convincingly, or someone else screams "KILL MEEEE."

I went back and looked at the people who directly interacted with Tiam, to see if we might get a possible hint as to who might be the mole master. The first thing that tweaks my interest is Tellan. These quotes are from just before the second interaction sequence with Tiam. They are careful to come across as dulely suspicious of Tiam but still throw in the "wow if they're faking it's really good" compliment in there. Now by itself this isn't much, but I'm going to post Tellan's. Also, careful distancing with a nice long time gap thrown in?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Tellan, on 27 June 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Well this is interesting.

Still combing back through thread, sort of caught up now, but will say that day clearly timed out. My hammer counted, but obviously there were alts on the train that didn't, and it was too late in the day to pile on more votes that might have gotten a lynch. This seems fairly obvious, no? i.e., I hammered, 12 votes, mod 'resolved,' it didn't end in lynch, day ends before anything can really be done about that.

I agree with Gait there's no LP, as others have pointed out, Fener was acting pretty desperately...


EDIT: deleted a random "we" for grammar/clarity

Tellan, on 27 June 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Gait, on 27 June 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 June 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

I see our new guest has finally arrived. I can't help but get a whiff of bullshit here. I especially don't like how they're not immediately explaining themselves.

I agree. I think we should lynch him just to be safe.

I want to agree with this, but a part of me wonders, what if they blow up or something when we try to lynch them? :c I mean, I only know what I've read from the wiki... but this is TDMI 10 and over and all that...

Tellan, on 27 June 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

NOT to distract from questioning Tiam, as I think it's a good point they could be bullshitting the "I'm Alera" thingy, but I also wanted to look at yesterday's events:

Since I didn't feel the Fener lynch-attempt was reasonable after he started tossing us info (as well as the most likely idea that Vord were on the train), I looked over the lynch train and noticed Trake wasn't listed first? Though he did start the pressure:

Trake, on 25 June 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Hood, on 25 June 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

-snip-

What's a Keeper?

Nice catch.
Vote Fener

He's not first because switched votes:

Trake, on 26 June 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

-snip-

What is it with you and Fener? You're not even being subtle about it.
You defend him once, and now you're saying you don't want to lynch him unless you're forced to, without anything backing that up? Just "I wouldn't like it?"
I don't know what you're playing at here, but it looks like you're either really defending Fener, or you're trying to get him lynched. Either way..
Remove vote
Vote Gait

Even if Gait "symping" or defending Fener was suspicious, why go after the 'symp' or 'defender' when the main target is somehow worth defending? (others may have pointed this out already, i think)

He then later switches BACK to Fener once momentum gains.

Trake, on 26 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Liosan, on 26 June 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

so do you think he's fake-symping fener or not?

Probably, yeah. Although I really don't understand why.
I'm not particularly concerned who we vote off, although as you say, Fener has defenders, which makes me lean towards him.
Given the rate of infections, I don't think we can afford to miss a lynch today, either.

And by his own logic, he should've kept his vote on Fener because of his defenders, not switch his vote to one of them.

Distancing? From perhaps, the few votes that followed his first Fener vote? Or just not wanting to look like you started it?

Trake, what say you?

Because here on day one, he's posting in the same time frame as Tiam, but isn't joining in the questioning, instead analysing Fener and the train. Except for cautioning strongly against lynching Tiam, that is.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Problem is...they voted #6 on the train for Tiam. Amazing atmosphere of the thread reading?

Sigh...I should have checked the vote train before posting that speculation. />

[Ryllandaras]

Ultama, on 03 July 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

I agree with looking for the puppet master, of course. But I doubt you'll find it among Barghast and Okaros somehow.

A second successful lynch will be extremely useful, when we can finally compare two trains. It may turn some of this speculation into a bit more than that. And, with the timer freezing again soon, we will surely have enough time to get that lynch in (unless everyone goes AWOL).

First, we have two trains to compare.

Second, what exactly is wrong with a low poster hunt at this juncture?

Third, we have had 1 successful lynch in 3 days. What makes you think that we will "surely" get one on day 4?

Fourth, yesterday was a national holiday for at least 3 players. Tomorrow night starts a national holiday for 6+ more players. Which makes the "unless everyone goes AWOL" very much possible.

Fifth, would you care to toss out a name for consideration?

Sixth, why are you deflecting from Barghast with only a singe vote on him?

Seventh, why is it ok for you to float your "let's vote these people" and not for me?

Ryllandaras, on 28 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Those are the ones most suspicious to me from the train. I'd prefer Ultama first, Pran for keeping mainly shtum, Alkend for Vord talk, and then Trake.

Why are you getting so antsy? So, you believe we have two trains to compare, and yet you also think there's nothing better than a low poster hunt to go with? (That being said, I do think we need two successful lynch trains to compare - with Fener's one, we can't be sure how many votes didn't count, and that's a piece of info I wish we had). Personally, I just don't like low poster hunts unless there really isn't another option. I like to vote on things with a little more basis than that. Deflecting is a bit rich. And we will surely get another lynch in because we have about a 1000 hours in which to do it (possible small exaggeration). If we don't, holiday or no, then we are shameful mafia players.

I never said it was not ok for you to float those people. You can float anyone who floats your boat. It doesn't mean I have to automatically agree with them, just like you don't have to with mine. To me, your stated intention of going after the 'puppet master' just doesn't chime with also going after Bagh/Okaros. Do you really think one of those two is going to turn out to be that? Anything's possible, I'll grant you, but do you yourself believe that?

[Ultama]

Ryllandaras, on 03 July 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

To me, your stated intention of going after the 'puppet master' just doesn't chime with also going after Bagh/Okaros. Do you really think one of those two is going to turn out to be that? Anything's possible, I'll grant you, but do you yourself believe that?

Yes I would like to go after the person or persons controlling the alts. But since I have very little information of my own to go on I have no clue as to who it is I'm looking for. Are we going to find that in Barghast or Okaros? I don't know but it's just as likely as anyone else from what i can see.

In the 5 hours and 45 minutes since day started there has been one vote. Total. Better a low poster than no one.

If you don't like my choice find a better one.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Hmm, Tiam was an ovious lynch, being on that train early could be great distancing.

[Ultama]

Sheltatha Lore, on 03 July 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Problem is...they voted #6 on the train for Tiam. Amazing atmosphere of the thread reading?

Sigh...I should have checked the vote train before posting that speculation. />

Why? Facts get in the way of good mafia speculation.

[Ultama]

Sheltatha Lore, on 03 July 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

Hmm, Tiam was an ovious lynch, being on that train early could be great distancing.

That's why I discounted both Tellan and Alkend as suspects for a puppet alt.

[Tellan]

Sheltatha Lore, on 03 July 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Problem is...they voted #6 on the train for Tiam. Amazing atmosphere of the thread reading?

Sigh...I should have checked the vote train before posting that speculation. />

Not only that, but the "nice long time gap" comment - um, I'm not around the thread all day? I have things to do? I dunno, that kind of thing gets RL/wifom-y. Also, I think "cautioning strongly" against a vote for Tiam is a bit over-the-top when referring to me speculating on the damage lynching a possible 'powerful neutral alt/thing' could cause. I just thought it was something reasonable to consider at the time, but naturally, it looks really stupid now, haha.

[Ultama]

Fener said:

1372804963[/url]' post='1067732']

Gait said:

1372795427[/url]' post='1067677']
I have a theory. Each tile has an alt and when that tile is infested that alt is spawned. If we kill the alt it just spawns back. Each new tile one new alt.
Can work.

Sounds likely. Worth noting that Tiam was a Keeper and Rashan a Warrior - the Tiam lynch may be why the infestation slowed so much today. I'm wondering if the alts respawn with the same role or if they rotate through a range of roles. It may be that the role is tied to the parent tile?

I still don't like the varying timing of Tiam appearing vs timing of Rashan appearing.

Fener said:

1372805067[/url]' post='1067733']

Ultama said:

1372800497[/url]' post='1067715']
And while I am considering other bad news, what is a Vord Keeper?

Tiam could still be a pain in the ass. Somebody needs to guard her?

I'll point you in the direction of the whole Day 1 lynch train on me for why I'm not going to rise to that bait.

Headed for bed.

I would love to see a somewhat substantial reasoning why Tiam and/or Rashan will CF the same class of Vord the next time they're wacked. The idea that their role(s) could change each time is worrying.

And to add to that: What if their spawnr ate is tied to their survival rate? Tiam survived a night and Rashan spawned. What happens if either one survives to next day?

Linear progression is bad enough. Exponential spawning could get way out of hand way fast.

[Monok Ochem]

Monok Ochem, on 28 June 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

Alkend, on 26 June 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Korbas, on 26 June 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Alkend, on 26 June 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Lots and lots of talk about the Vord. I guess that means we're going on a bug hunt (are they bugs? That's what I'm imagining in my head).

Any reason we wouldn't go after the Vord? Their goal is to eliminate us all, everyone has a Vord elimination VC. Makes sense no?

When you put it like that, yeah. But for most the VC is to eliminate the Vord Queen and fuck (not literally) the rest of the Vord. One individual between twenty-something players might take a while to track down. I'm certainly not expecting the factions to remain the bestest of friends if it does end up a long chase.
It might be tough to not have this game go the way such books always go (and I bet in the Alera series too). Loads of squabbling and fighting between various armies/petty nations etc, whilst a bigger threat grows ever stronger in the background.
Very fun-looking setup this!

Mockra, on 25 June 2013 - 12:25 AM, said:

Hi all! Looks to be a fun/confusing one this!

Is this expression common elsewhere? It's not here, so if so, this is nothing, plus I don't have my notes, and can't remember the other really petty things I found. I'm not advocating their lynch really, just tossing anything at all I have put there.

I remember thinking Alkend and Mockra were the same person, and we now know Alkend was Vord, and Mockra tried to jump on the last lynch train after it was too late. It may be nothing, but I'd look at Mockra more closely.

[Ultama]

Monok Ochem said:

1372832408[/url]' post='1067818']
I remember thinking Alkend and Mockra were the same person, and we now know Alkend was Vord, and Mockra tried to jump on the last lynch train after it was too late. It may be nothing, but I'd look at Mockra more closely.

Don't have time to do a comparison/contrast look at Mockra. But I did do a search to look at his posts. And found something that could very well be a blunder on Mockra's part:

Mockra said:

1372728945[/url]' post='1067429']

Nimander Golit said:

1372525617[/url]' post='1067222']I'm definitely (still) in favour of lynching Tiam for the knowledge/certainty.
I would also like to point out, however, that Fener yesterday was the only one I recall who claimed the mods confirmed his vote for the choice of furies to enhance. That, in addition to his cozy back-and-forth with Tiam has me suspicious that he is the master behind these new alts. ie if Tiam turns up Vord, I suspect Fener might be a queen gaining control of generic new vord alts and we should look that way next. I still want to vote Tiam today to verify that she is Vord, though, and see what other info the CF brings us.


IF I am right though, and the infested tiles can each generate new generic Vord, our best defense at the moment is to keep them bottled on the left by reinforcing Elinarch. I don't know how the blue line works with moving and attacking across in relation to the Vord, but it's at least worth a shot to keep Elinarch blocked as much as possible until we have any reason to defend somewhere else. Book-wise, the blue line there is an ocean so it'd make a lot of sense if attacks across it are not possible, which helps defend it even more.
Then again, in the books the Vord randomly showed up in Kalare somehow... so that might not be a permanent solution.

Wasn't Fener supposed to slow/cut down the infestation at Shuar? What happened with that then?
And what makes you think the Vord can regenerate? Have I missed something to do with that? I wouldn't want to not lynch Tiam just because of the suspicion that she might come back.

Nimander's point in red above is about an infested tile spawning "a new generic Vord"

Compare that to the red highlight from Mockra's reply to NG. Nimander didn't say anything about REgenerating. And Mockra's highlighted blue comment shows he didn't type regenerate accidentally. I don't think that until this comment anybody had said anything about the possibility that Tiamatha could survive dying.

Some pressure is definitely called for.

Remove Vote
Vote Mockra


Edit: grammar

This post has been edited by Ultama: 03 July 2013 - 08:02 AM

[Demelain]

Ultama, on 03 July 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Monok Ochem, on 03 July 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I remember thinking Alkend and Mockra were the same person, and we now know Alkend was Vord, and Mockra tried to jump on the last lynch train after it was too late. It may be nothing, but I'd look at Mockra more closely.

Don't have time to do a comparison/contrast look at Mockra. But I did do a search to look at his posts. And found something that could very well be a blunder on Mockra's part:

Mockra, on 02 July 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 29 June 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I'm definitely (still) in favour of lynching Tiam for the knowledge/certainty.
I would also like to point out, however, that Fener yesterday was the only one I recall who claimed the mods confirmed his vote for the choice of furies to enhance. That, in addition to his cozy back-and-forth with Tiam has me suspicious that he is the master behind these new alts. ie if Tiam turns up Vord, I suspect Fener might be a queen gaining control of generic new vord alts and we should look that way next. I still want to vote Tiam today to verify that she is Vord, though, and see what other info the CF brings us.


IF I am right though, and the infested tiles can each generate new generic Vord, our best defense at the moment is to keep them bottled on the left by reinforcing Elinarch. I don't know how the blue line works with moving and attacking across in relation to the Vord, but it's at least worth a shot to keep Elinarch blocked as much as possible until we have any reason to defend somewhere else. Book-wise, the blue line there is an ocean so it'd make a lot of sense if attacks across it are not possible, which helps defend it even more.
Then again, in the books the Vord randomly showed up in Kalare somehow... so that might not be a permanent solution.

Wasn't Fener supposed to slow/cut down the infestation at Shuar? What happened with that then?
And what makes you think the Vord can regenerate? Have I missed something to do with that? I wouldn't want to not lynch Tiam just because of the suspicion that she might come back.

Nimander's point in red above is about an infested tile spawning "a new generic Vord"

Compare that to the red highlight from Mockra's reply to NG. Nimander didn't say anything about REgenerating. And Mockra's highlighted blue comment shows he didn't type regenerate accidentally. I don't think that until this comment anybody had said anything about the possibility that Tiamatha could survive dying.

Some pressure is definitely called for.

Remove Vote
Vote Mockra


Edit: grammar

While I'm a little curious at Ultimas jumping from person to person looking for a case, I think this mockra thing could be a good catch. Lets add a little more pressure.

Vote mockra


I should be on for the next few hours, depending on busy it gets at work.