[Atrahal]

Vote Shadow



I think Shadow is the second killer. Too much points in his direction.

[Hood's Path]

back for today

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Killer thinks I am his symp. He has a hard time figuring Shadow out.

So? Above you are making something of the killers connecting.

And yet below you are saying it doesn't matter because they don't know each other.

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

As Shadow would not know GL was a killer he has no problem making him look scummy through lurking, or setting him up for scrutiny later.

You're simply choosing whatever scenario justifies it.

In this one, I don't know GL so am happy to pressure him, but you think what? That he's figured out I'm his partner or something? Pretty shaky thing to base anything on.

Your assumption GL thought you were a symp is also simply based on what he said on thread. Should we vote off who he thought was a killer and hope he'd identified his partner?

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Vote Shadow



I think Shadow is the second killer. Too much points in his direction.

I'm happy to argue any reasons people have against me, but I've really yet to see a good one.

You're playing on the fact I've annoyed people.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Cast has not mentioned Shadow and avoids pointing fingers that way.

We're basing things from who cast hasn't pointed at?

Well that's great, really narrows it down. That's what, everyone minus you?

[Shadow]

Also, this all relies on the assumption Cast is GL's symp, which you're not providing much info for.

Him saying his boss is in town doesn't seem like a signal to me - it's not aimed at anyone, and it's not the sort of thing a killer is going to pick up on. RL explanations are common. Besides which, I give them a pass, it's outside of the game as far as I'm concerned.

[Hood's Path]

hahaha

Shadow, I bet you could reveal as scum and still talk your way out of a lynch

[Shadow]

Also interesting to note the timing of this.

Cast starts getting mentioned as a possible symp by Korlat.
I mention Atrahal is the obvious connection, due to Cast being hung up on him, and the signal.
Atrahal comes on with a case arguing that Cast is actually my symp.

[Atrahal]

The italic's below are me wondering why GL is trying to figure you out. We know he is the killer, I am wondering if he thinks you are the other killer. He has not put a label on you but in the future post he says you are good for the thread, and contribute a lot.

Shadow, on 07 June 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Killer thinks I am his symp. He has a hard time figuring Shadow out.

So? Above you are making something of the killers connecting.

And yet below you are saying it doesn't matter because they don't know each other.

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

As Shadow would not know GL was a killer he has no problem making him look scummy through lurking, or setting him up for scrutiny later.

You're simply choosing whatever scenario justifies it.

In this one, I don't know GL so am happy to pressure him, but you think what? That he's figured out I'm his partner or something? Pretty shaky thing to base anything on.

Your assumption GL thought you were a symp is also simply based on what he said on thread. Should we vote off who he thought was a killer and hope he'd identified his partner?

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 07 June 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Also, this all relies on the assumption Cast is GL's symp, which you're not providing much info for.

Him saying his boss is in town doesn't seem like a signal to me - it's not aimed at anyone, and it's not the sort of thing a killer is going to pick up on. RL explanations are common. Besides which, I give them a pass, it's outside of the game as far as I'm concerned.

I read Korlat's case, and I agreed upon what he was saying. I haven't reached up to the lynch or break down of who defended whom. I was looking at thread before a killer was outed, with the knowledge that GL is scum.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 07 June 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Also interesting to note the timing of this.

Cast starts getting mentioned as a possible symp by Korlat.
I mention Atrahal is the obvious connection, due to Cast being hung up on him, and the signal.
Atrahal comes on with a case arguing that Cast is actually my symp.

Very true. Or, you will see that every single day this is my posting time, and I wanted to make use of it. I won't have time over the weekend, (a friend's stag do, I am going to be the green lantern, theme is super heroes), and I'd prefer my thoughts to be on thread than in my head.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Right, first thing that sticks out to me upon a read through, is how Shadow ignores GL. Shadow likes to respond to every post, yet when GL says Desra and Kara or Shadow could be a killer/symp, Shadow does not respond to it. He posts 3 posts in a row instead replying to others.

Yeah, there's a pretty obvious reason for that. He was simply giving his vague opinions on the thread so far, the others were part of an actual ongoing discussion.

The other posts I were responding to were things actually relevant to my case and to the case on me.

[Atrahal]

Shadow, on 07 June 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Right, first thing that sticks out to me upon a read through, is how Shadow ignores GL. Shadow likes to respond to every post, yet when GL says Desra and Kara or Shadow could be a killer/symp, Shadow does not respond to it. He posts 3 posts in a row instead replying to others.

Yeah, there's a pretty obvious reason for that. He was simply giving his vague opinions on the thread so far, the others were part of an actual ongoing discussion.

The other posts I were responding to were things actually relevant to my case and to the case on me.

I disagree. I also did not formulate a "proper" case. I read enough to determine that I think you are the second killer. That is my opinion, I don't expect anyone to follow. If/when I die they can see I cast suspicion on you. If they use that to their benefit then good for me and good for them. I would possibly be amenable to a Cast vote today but you are my first choice.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

The italic's below are me wondering why GL is trying to figure you out. We know he is the killer, I am wondering if he thinks you are the other killer. He has not put a label on you but in the future post he says you are good for the thread, and contribute a lot.

Do you mean, earlier in the same post you quoted?

Galayn Lord, on 05 June 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

The defence then slowly but surely devolves into a pissing match. I'm not sure I'm buying the case on Shadow, although Atrahal is bugging the hell out of me. Too much being said by him that makes me thing he's a symp.

Skintick's case I could get behind--yeah, he's a low-poster, so am I, but I've at least tried to avoid posting useless crap. He's also made promises of content that never materialized.

Shadow contributes, and he gets people talking (even if said talking usually involves yelling at Shadow). Though his lynch could get us some info, perhaps, he's gotten himself involved in os many antaqgonistic convos I have a hard time figutring him out. I also happen to agree with him about Karat, so there's that.

For reference.

In context, he is catching up on day two, and at this particular moment, my defence of Tiam's case. It would look pretty weird if he didn't make any comment on it, so his reasons for doing so are pretty obvious.

He gives a very vague, middle of the road opinion.

"I'm not sure I'm buying the case on Shadow"

"His lynch could get us some info"

"I have a hard time figutring him out"

Interpreting a typical coasting scum post as him trying to figure out his killer (on thread?) is weak.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

I disagree. I also did not formulate a "proper" case. I read enough to determine that I think you are the second killer. That is my opinion, I don't expect anyone to follow. If/when I die they can see I cast suspicion on you. If they use that to their benefit then good for me and good for them. I would possibly be amenable to a Cast vote today but you are my first choice.

You disagree that there is a difference between:

Vague catch up opinion post:

Galayn Lord, on 03 June 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

In a perfect world, stating the obvious wouldn't be helpful to town. It'd be redundant and a waste of time. Given our predilection to put such a low value of fellow town's common sense, pointing out the obvious becomes an exercise that may potentially be valuable to town.



Shadow and SR, on one side, you and Karat on the other. From where i'm standing, either pair could be a killer/symp combo.

And:

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Shadow, on 03 June 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Not actually answering questions = suspicious.

On a more serious note, Desra's OMGUS on me has totally de-railed any discussion from his post that kindly pointed out for the symp that this game would be looking particularly for them. I'd be interested in hearing what others feel about that, as I do feel it is a legitimately scummy move, since it is pointless do to as town, but could benefit scum.

I also don't like that Desra's response to pressure is just avoidance of the issue:

Desra, on 03 June 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Actually yes. I do assume that if I am lynched on day one then town is fucked. Because I am that fucking good. Ask your mom. She couldn't stop screaming my name as I was putting it in ass. Did you know that she goes from ass to mouth with no urging. Fucking dirty girl.

Followed by OMGUS.

Wait so you are totally ignoring the actual scummyness of players attempting to signal by saying that they have only read a couple of books. Nicely done sir. Nicely ignored.

Directly referring to me?

And use the fact that I respond to one and not the other as some form of evidence?

And for what?

It's day one, GL has barely posted. If I'm a killer, why am I ignoring him? Are you suggesting a connection? But then you yourself say that I later have "no problem making him look scummy", which you say doesn't matter. Is that not contradictory?

Also, way to disown your case.

[Atrahal]

Why does my vote on you Irk you so Much? Why are you so defensive? Why aren't you using the information of a killer CF and finding us scum rather than defend, defend and be clever? The more you scramble, the more you cherry pick my posts one by one the more you convince me to leave my vote.

[Shadow]

Atrahal, on 07 June 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Why does my vote on you Irk you so Much? Why are you so defensive? Why aren't you using the information of a killer CF and finding us scum rather than defend, defend and be clever? The more you scramble, the more you cherry pick my posts one by one the more you convince me to leave my vote.

All I've done is respond to each point your case has made. Would you rather I just ignored it?

Why are you trying to claim it is a bad thing that I have responded to your case, instead of actually developing your case in response to my criticisms of it? You made a case on me, I have pointed out where it is bullshit. This is the normal response, and it's how I've responded to any other case made on me.

Quote what I cherry pick. Quote where I am being unfair to your case. If you think that is what I am doing, why aren't you doing this?

This is a weak attempt to circumvent the fact that your case does not make very much sense, and to try and dismiss the defence without actually having to address its points.

[Korlat]

I appreciate you taking my suspicions of Cast and seeing where else you can take it, Atrahal. The 'my boss is intownso...' right after Galayn's post is something I missed.

However, I see one immediate problem with you linking Cast and Shadow together, and that's the fact that Cast immediately went after Shadow and voted for them as soon as they got on today.

[Atrahal]

Korlat, on 07 June 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I appreciate you taking my suspicions of Cast and seeing where else you can take it, Atrahal. The 'my boss is intownso...' right after Galayn's post is something I missed.

However, I see one immediate problem with you linking Cast and Shadow together, and that's the fact that Cast immediately went after Shadow and voted for them as soon as they got on today.

I see that yes. Was it before or after you put him as a potential symp?

[Shadow]

As for looking for scum, you'll notice I'd already commented on Cast as symp. And had a look over GL's interactions.

The problem is, the symp is what we need to go through to look for the other killer, and there aren't many people who have much connection to GL.

I think Hanas as symp could actually be our best bet. That night vote is just ludicrous.

Hanas, on 06 June 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 06 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

On the bright side, seems like we have the most incompetent killers in the history of mafia, which betters our chances somewhat.

Incompetent? I'm leaning more towards non-existent. This reminds me of the all symp game.
Vote Night