[Shadow]

In short:

With 2 kills per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 3 lynches as opposed to 2.
With 1 kill per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 4 lynches either way.

In both cases, we gain an extra lynch from having no kills, but only if we lynch as opposed to no lynch.

I only said I didn't like maths being posted at times it is not relevant.

[Desra]

Atrahal, on 05 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Exact posts as they happen. Is Shadow suggesting GL was lurking? Did GL hammer to look more like town, to avoid looking scummy because he was mentioned, to get a lynch, There is an 8 - 10 minute Gap between Shadow posting about GL and GL voting.

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Remove vote

Vote Silchas Ruin

For lynch, catching up now.

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 04 June 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

I've seen the WIFOM shit too often. However, I'd rather keep playing than die obviously.

I'd rather not go through again.
Vote Silchas Ruin

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 14 minutes remaining

15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara

8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal, Tholen, Karatallid, Tiamatha, Skintick, Shadow, Hanas )
1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )
1 Vote for Shadow ( Korlat )

Players not voted: Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Silchas Ruin, Venesara

Tholen, on 04 June 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

While I agree with Desra that a no-lynch isn't the end of the world... we'll just be in the same boat tomorrow with no actual train to analyze, but who knows. Maybe the killers will take each other out .

That self-vote to self vote removal is...interesting. You state you are worried about WIFOM...and then you go and create it. Iirc there was a scum who wouldn't self vote last game, then self voted the next day and removed. Just sayin.

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Silchas, you're right about WIFOM.

No lynch doesn't benefit town here. It's not a total catastrophe either, but it's a poor start.

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Noteworthy that GL was around.

Galayn Lord, on 04 June 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

vote Ruin

Galayn Lord, on 04 June 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Noteworthy that GL was around.

I stil am, though afk. I don't see Ruin as scum, but town needs a lynch.

When I am reading that it seems as if Shadow is saying that GL was around earlier and so might still be around now. Which with so little time left in the day would be a good guess. GL's end of day lurking and hammer are suspect.

[Shadow]

I was particularly making note of GL being around because he hadn't voted with very little time on the clock and the possibility of us failing to lynch, and had also not indicated that he would be around.

[Cast]

@Desra Tiam had the most impact in swinging the lynch train. He brought us to 4 votes with 2 hours to go, otherwise we may not have had a lynch.

Tiamatha, on 04 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

We really need to make sure we lynch; I'm worried about the 2 deaths per night rate of loss, so we need to take a shot at scum every chance we get. I will support a lynch of SR, though if we had more time, I would prefer people to agree upon a low poster. Remove VoteVote Silchas Ruin

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 2 hours remaining15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.1 Vote for Cast ( Shadow )1 Vote for Shadow ( Korlat )5 Votes for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal, Tholen, Karatallid, Tiamatha, Silchas Ruin )1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )Players not voted: Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Skintick, Venesara

[Karatallid]

Tiamatha, on 04 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

We really need to make sure we lynch; I'm worried about the 2 deaths per night rate of loss, so we need to take a shot at scum every chance we get. I will support a lynch of SR, though if we had more time, I would prefer people to agree upon a low poster.

Remove Vote

Vote Silchas Ruin

It's pretty funny that she's saying we should lynch a low poster, when she is, in fact, the lowest poster.

[Karatallid]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

In short:

With 2 kills per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 3 lynches as opposed to 2.
With 1 kill per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 4 lynches either way.

In both cases, we gain an extra lynch from having no kills, but only if we lynch as opposed to no lynch.

I only said I didn't like maths being posted at times it is not relevant.

Right, and how is it any more relevant now than when I did it on Day 1? It's just figuring out when D-Day is to see how long we have to muck about, which is why I did it on Day 1.

[Desra]

Cast, on 05 June 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

@Desra Tiam had the most impact in swinging the lynch train. He brought us to 4 votes with 2 hours to go, otherwise we may not have had a lynch.

Tiamatha, on 04 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

We really need to make sure we lynch; I'm worried about the 2 deaths per night rate of loss, so we need to take a shot at scum every chance we get. I will support a lynch of SR, though if we had more time, I would prefer people to agree upon a low poster. Remove VoteVote Silchas Ruin

Path-Shaper, on 04 June 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 2 hours remaining15 Players still alive: Atrahal, Cast, Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Karatallid, Korlat, Shadow, Silchas Ruin, Skintick, Tholen, Tiamatha, Venesara8 votes to lynch, 8 votes to go to night.1 Vote for Cast ( Shadow )1 Vote for Shadow ( Korlat )5 Votes for Silchas Ruin ( Atrahal, Tholen, Karatallid, Tiamatha, Silchas Ruin )1 Vote for Atrahal ( Cast )Players not voted: Desra, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hanas, Hood's Path, Skintick, Venesara

I agree that Tiam did take it to the dreaded half way point. But it was the jump by Kara from shadow's train that precipitated. As to which one had more impact on the eventual train I am unsure.

[Shadow]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

In short:

With 2 kills per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 3 lynches as opposed to 2.
With 1 kill per night, lynching as opposed to not lynching gives us 4 lynches either way.

In both cases, we gain an extra lynch from having no kills, but only if we lynch as opposed to no lynch.

I only said I didn't like maths being posted at times it is not relevant.

Right, and how is it any more relevant now than when I did it on Day 1? It's just figuring out when D-Day is to see how long we have to muck about, which is why I did it on Day 1.

Because now we have people who have claimed a no lynch would've benefited us.

I'm not just posting it to show when D-day might be, because we're not in a situation where that information might have bearing on the game.

[Cast]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Tiamatha, on 04 June 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

We really need to make sure we lynch; I'm worried about the 2 deaths per night rate of loss, so we need to take a shot at scum every chance we get. I will support a lynch of SR, though if we had more time, I would prefer people to agree upon a low poster.

Remove Vote

Vote Silchas Ruin

It's pretty funny that she's saying we should lynch a low poster, when she is, in fact, the lowest poster.

Indeed.

[Shadow]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

5 - Scum love lists, so I must be scum. Let's watch how many people use this as a be all end all reason to vote me out. I put it at 50/50 odds this post gets me voted out.

I don't like this sort of pre-emptive, half jokey worry.

[Karatallid]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

5 - Scum love lists, so I must be scum. Let's watch how many people use this as a be all end all reason to vote me out. I put it at 50/50 odds this post gets me voted out.

I don't like this sort of pre-emptive, half jokey worry.

Colour me shocked. Only not.

[Tholen]

Here and caught up.
2 comments on this quote string:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

Desra, on 05 June 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

of course you would say that

Were you offended that no one liked your idea of letting day time out and there was a last chance pile on of votes? That seemed somehow significant to me

No not really. I still think that it was the smart thing to do any time you have the potential for more town loss then a normal day things should be looked at. But hey since there were no n/k's then town actually came out ahead.

Math for those who are retarded

Lynch + 2 kills = 3 town deaths.

Yesterday

mod kill + lynch = 2 town deaths


So town came out ahead.

well, I was alright with no lynch to be honest, the train on SR was composed of nothingness

I actually wanted a comment on the pile-on. It seemed to come from nowhere and I can't decide if it was good 'ol "must lynch for town sake" or scum thinking about not missing an easy lynch

1. I hate it when people assume that the Lynch will be town. We had no way of knowing Silchas would be town. It's easy to use hindsight and "woohoo" we came out ahead, but if we always did that we'd no vote to D-day without a lynch. we HAVE to lynch. Thats our power. The only time you assume a lynch is town is when you do a WCS and that's not what Desra was doing. If we didn't get that lynch yesterday, we'd have fuck-all to talk about today other than the fact that Silchas got out of a lynch and how last game the scum did the same thing. Instead, we have a lynch and look how much discussion it's garnered. That's a productive town lynch. It's why we do that.

2. I got the same feeling as HP. I think it was a little bit of both. Contrary to what ...(can't remember who) someone said, I think the gaylord vote is the least suspicious. It's clear he didn't want to lynch Silchas as evidenced by his post about a self voter from last game. Also, the fact that he got the lynch in with 33 seconds to spare doesn't have the look of someone who is paying close attention to the thread and is waiting to hammer. I actually am more suspicious of the Skintick, Shadow, Hanas votes. At that point they came on in quick succession when it was clear who was going to be lynched. In my experience thats the time when scum usually hop on, when the target has basically been chosen, and their momentum will help push a lynch through to completion. Of the three skintick is the most suspicious to me because as someone pointed out, he has provided fuck-all for content...but just happened to be able to get on and vote. That stinks in my eyes.

[Tholen]

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 05 June 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

5 - Scum love lists, so I must be scum. Let's watch how many people use this as a be all end all reason to vote me out. I put it at 50/50 odds this post gets me voted out.

I don't like this sort of pre-emptive, half jokey worry.

Colour me shocked. Only not.

You set yourself up though for this exact scenario Kara. A built in escape hatch. If someone called you out, you can do exactly what you just did. If you know people are suspicious of lists, or think that has merit... why form your post in the form of a list? I, personally, think the scum = list thing is retarded, but the way you set this up...you have only yourself to blame.

[Hood's Path]

@ Tholen - so you don't think when Shadow said GL was lurking, then he pops up (as quoted previously by others) to vote that he was lurking, it was merely coincidence?

I can't help but think scum is right in that group


also, I agree about Kara's post

[Tholen]

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Hanas, on 05 June 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:08 AM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 11:41 PM, said:

Shadow, on 04 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Hanas, on 04 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

13 players. 2 killers. 1 guard. 1 healer.
No NKs
Very good guessing. 1 or both killers abstaining. Or mod shenanigans.
Day 2 looks to be fun. Where's the popcorn?

Yeah, really unsure what to make of it.

It's possible they kill on alternate nights for example. It has been the case before anyway, not sure how likely it is.

Co-ordinated withhold? Or just both independently deciding to, it's a feasible strategy.

Really unsure.

Would you care to speculate on how the coordination took place? Just when I was thinking you might not be scum.

Via signal presumably. Would be worth checking back to see if there is anything that didn't look suspect at the time that could suggest something like that. Dunno, just throwing possibilities out there really and it's one of them. Dunno what's scummy about it tbh?

I'm hesitant to jump on the possibility of roled players being successful, because it's a risky thing to put weight on for town, and there are other possibilities.

I try very hard to not make assumptions in mafia. I believe paranoia is a virtue. I once spent an entire English period arguing with the professor that there is a clear difference in meaning between "to boldly go" and "to go boldly". But even I have trouble seeing any ambiguous language in

Path-Shaper, on 03 June 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

The set-up consist of 2 independent killers and a symp. The killers don't know each other.
Town has a guard and a healer.
Day is 36 hours. Night is instant, so make sure to provide provisionals.

that would allow room for killers coordinate.

I'm not suggesting some sort of hidden communication mechanic, as you point out, the OP is pretty clear.

I meant that it is possible that they managed to co-ordinate on thread via subtle signalling. Unlikely, but possible.

You are ridiculous. There was no fricking coordination going on. To even bring it up is dumb. (see I can dictate what a good meaningful post is too!!!). The amount of things that could have happened is many. Healer healed, guard guarded, killers both killed the same person that was healed, there is only one kill per night and that person chose shin, or any combination of these which would all be more likely than the killers having a secret communication on thread without anyone catching it and deciding that both would withhold. C'mon man.

[Tholen]

Hood, on 05 June 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

@ Tholen - so you don't think when Shadow said GL was lurking, then he pops up (as quoted previously by others) to vote that he was lurking, it was merely coincidence?

I can't help but think scum is right in that group


also, I agree about Kara's post

I don't know if he was lurking or not and I'm not gonna sit here and defend him. My main point was that I found the votes by Skintick, Shadow and Hanas to be MORE scummy than a deadline hammer. As far as I'm concerned that hammer helped town move on and didn't send us to a wasted day of discussing if we should lynch Silchas.

[Desra]

Tholen, on 05 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Shadow, on 05 June 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

I'm not suggesting some sort of hidden communication mechanic, as you point out, the OP is pretty clear.

I meant that it is possible that they managed to co-ordinate on thread via subtle signalling. Unlikely, but possible.

You are ridiculous. There was no fricking coordination going on. To even bring it up is dumb. (see I can dictate what a good meaningful post is too!!!). The amount of things that could have happened is many. Healer healed, guard guarded, killers both killed the same person that was healed, there is only one kill per night and that person chose shin, or any combination of these which would all be more likely than the killers having a secret communication on thread without anyone catching it and deciding that both would withhold. C'mon man.

Not to mention that it would be a neat trick to have coordination between two players who don't know each other and so don't know what to look for in order to coordinate movements. By neat trick I mean impossible.

[Shadow]

As for my vote, I mentioned earlier in the day that I would try and be back on before time out. Lynching was better than not lynching in that situation, as I said at the time, so I voted.

[Tiamatha]

I have time now to work back through the thread and see what i can find. I would like to answer one accusation however.

While it is true that I'm a low poster, I consider myself to be of the highly content filed variety. When I post, I post tl;dr . It is interesting to note how despite all the talk from Kara about my low posting, Kara has not quoted me. I assume this is because to quote me would quench the low posting arguments, which often involve demonstrating a list of useless one liners.

If you would like me to break my posts up into more manageable chunks, I can do so and up my post count if it makes you feel better. Otherwise, do a low poster hunt properly and go after the true offenders, Gaylain Lord and Skintick. I'll stick with Skintick for now myself (and look to see if his few posts left anything incriminating in my reread).

Vote Skintick

[Shadow]

Very unlikely yes, impossible no.

Was simply throwing out possibilities. As I said when I made the post, I didn't really know what to make of the lack of kills, and jumping to speculation about successful roled action is something I feel town always needs to be very careful about.