[Migol]

Why was Skinner in Jakuruku going to Ardata? Especially since there's apparently some prophecy saying he'd meet his end there. At first I thought he wanted to confront/reconcile/whatever, but when he got to Ardata he couldn't seem to care less.

Similarly, what was the point of Kallor going there? Just randomly trying to kill the Thaut empire at that moment in time? Again, aside from revenge (and you'd think some targets would rank MUCH higher than the decendants of mages dead for millennia), why go to such a dangerous place (for him)? Especially when the very heaves are literally proclaiming "That thing that devastated your empire/continent a long time ago? it's about to happen again."?

What was the deal with Ina? It felt like her story was "wrapped up" but just a random highly ranked seguleh who works for the enchantress? It felt like there should have been at least a hint of her background somewhere, did I miss it?

Sidenote: Why does Ice keep making all the women in his books suddenly more "stout" or in this case "Washerwomany" than they appear in ericksons? I mean Triss is an azanthanai, and if she has a "base" form we saw it in FoD when she had her memories erased in the Vitr. I don't have anything against "realistic" women or anything, but it's a bit jarring how we get all these little changes that don't seem to impact the story any.

[worry]

Kallor wasn't there for revenge, he was there to commit suicide. After the destruction of Dragnipur (and the apparent breaking of his three curses vs the Elder Gods) he was hoping that the Thaumaturgs could finally nail him with a Jade Giant. The danger there was the point, for him.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i don't quite get skinner's deal either... maybe he though he could usurp ardata? i don't know.

as for the women getting stouter - i believe in T'riss' case, this is just a choice she's made, perhaps to be more low-key. she appears in stonewielder, which ice wrote, and in that one she appears as the image of worship. kiska, who's POV we're in at the time, is flabbergasted by her beauty. i think the change has to do with the choices of t'riss rather than a trend in ICE's writing.

[worry]

ST is right about T'riss. Someone in another thread suggested she's mourning Rake, not sure if there's textual evidence for that but it's a nice thought. IMO, she does it at least in part to confound her own worshipers' expectations...a rebuke of sorts, though a soft one.

Maybe Ardata's daughter was actually another chunk of the Crippled God, and not her actual biological daughter? That's just a random explanation I thought up now, no quotes to back it up. Skinner's storyline finale is absolutely bizarre and mystifying, at least on only one read-through.

This post has been edited by sorrysort: 30 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

[Spoilsport Stonny]

Maybe she finds it easier to get things done by not having everyone staring at her boobs. I can see that as being very distracting. Like the way God shows up at the of Time bandits, dark suit, unassuming.

[Migol]

Ok, Kallor at least makes some sense then (though you think it'd be easier to kill yourself if the curse was lifted...an otatarel sword maybe?).

And I can't really accept that "it's just to make a point to her followers" idea...there were numerous instances where she and Ina seemed to refer to this as being the "true" her (in their thoughts or otherwise), and it'd make no sense to keep an ungainly, unbalanced form in the jungle when it's just her and Ina. The other reason I don't buy this is we've seen it before; for whatever reason Ice just seems to like messing with us (and Erickson's women)...a poverty stricken Scillara still manages to be overweight, a not long ago sultry Stony, and so on. Krul is the best example...a complete change, with no story point. I mean yes, azanthenai can grow whichever form they want, but again, just a jarring change for no apparent reason. I don't know, it just seems like he's trying to put his stamp on the characters in a very peculiar way.

Starting a reread, still not seeing any clue why skinner did any of the trip to begin with.

[korik]

Yes, Kallor was hoping to die and in the process ascend which was the point of the curse anyway..... from the scant information on ascention show death is often a part - i.e. Trake

I concluded that Skinner was after the fragment of the Crippled God that had come to rest on Jakuruku and was embodied as the child (I forget her name)

Ina bothered me as well, there seems to be a lot Seguleh popping up whenever a skilled swordsmen/woman is needed. For a supposedly isolationist people that nobody knows about, they certainly get around.

[nacht]

korik, on 31 May 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

I concluded that Skinner was after the fragment of the Crippled God that had come to rest on Jakuruku and was embodied as the child (I forget her name)

I second this.
Skinner is the king of chains. He is doing the crippled gods bidding to retrieve the pieces in exchange for the crippled gods power.
In addition Skinner is a merc being chased by a bunch of real badasses. So they likely settled on Jackruku as a safe haven (it seems to be a place which other ascendants generally avoid). The thaumaturgs probably gave them sanctuary in exchange for their services.

Maybe the question to ask is "Why not Jackruku"
If there is one thing that characterizes Skinner, it is his arrogance. So I dont think any prophesy would frighten him.

[nacht]

korik, on 31 May 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yes, Kallor was hoping to die and in the process ascend which was the point of the curse anyway..... from the scant information on ascention show death is often a part - i.e. Trake

I concluded that Skinner was after the fragment of the Crippled God that had come to rest on Jakuruku and was embodied as the child (I forget her name)

Ina bothered me as well, there seems to be a lot Seguleh popping up whenever a skilled swordsmen/woman is needed. For a supposedly isolationist people that nobody knows about, they certainly get around.

The seguleh have priests. In addition the Seguleh are a cult/sect (and they follow orders and a strict hierarchy of dominance). Also their ultimately identity is that of being bodyguards (to the tyrant) and his own personal force.
Being the bodyguard for a god is probably a great honor. It could have been requested by a priest

And it does not look like there is any restriction against leaving. It is not like a group of seguleh will chase and execute you if you go freelancing.



Regarding T'riss, she is in disguise. Even Ardata has a hard time recognizing her. So it must have been quite a disguise.
Scillara was pregnant and delivered a baby. I am sure that had effect or her form.
Same with Stony, raped, baby and age. I am sure that has an effect.

So ICE does not care about our stereotypes and does not care to fill in all the details.

This post has been edited by nacht: 31 May 2013 - 05:32 PM

[Defiance]

Kallor could have just slit his own wrists, but beyond the whole desiring ascendancy thing there's the fact that he's a cruel bastard. Committing suicide by pulverizing a continent with jade statues seems like something he'd enjoy.

[least branch]

Migol, on 30 May 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Why was Skinner in Jakuruku going to Ardata? Especially since there's apparently some prophecy saying he'd meet his end there. At first I thought he wanted to confront/reconcile/whatever, but when he got to Ardata he couldn't seem to care less.

Similarly, what was the point of Kallor going there? Just randomly trying to kill the Thaut empire at that moment in time? Again, aside from revenge (and you'd think some targets would rank MUCH higher than the decendants of mages dead for millennia), why go to such a dangerous place (for him)? Especially when the very heaves are literally proclaiming "That thing that devastated your empire/continent a long time ago? it's about to happen again."?

What was the deal with Ina? It felt like her story was "wrapped up" but just a random highly ranked seguleh who works for the enchantress? It felt like there should have been at least a hint of her background somewhere, did I miss it?

Sidenote: Why does Ice keep making all the women in his books suddenly more "stout" or in this case "Washerwomany" than they appear in ericksons? I mean Triss is an azanthanai, and if she has a "base" form we saw it in FoD when she had her memories erased in the Vitr. I don't have anything against "realistic" women or anything, but it's a bit jarring how we get all these little changes that don't seem to impact the story any.

Wasn't Skinner chasing pieces of the Crippled God and that is where the piece that was with Murk and Sour ended up.A.K.A. Celeste.And Ardata was just coincidence
.

[Abyss]

I thought Skinner was there to usurp Ardata, which is why she hired K'azz and co to oppose him, likely in part because she didn't want to do what she ended up doing to Skinner in the end, since it seemed she did love him in some weird immortal disfunctional sort of way.

Kallor was there to force the Thaumaturgs to take another shot at him. It might have worked, but it would have broken the continent, so Osserc interfered.

All we got on Ina was that she was a Seguleh who had decided to follow the QoD. It seemed as tho she was as much worshipper as bodyguard, which would be unusual for a Seguleh. I also wish we had gotten more of her story, but as an aside to the QoD plot it worked well enough.

Spite was there to grab the CG chunk, but her failed effort put the chunk in play at the same time as Skinner and K'azz' groups were wandering around causing trouble. The Thaumaturges invasion and Kallor's invasion are linked, but the timing with the Skinner/K'azz/QoD/Ardata side of the story is either coincidence or convergence.

..that's my take, anyways.