[Abyss]

I'm still three weeks back, just saw the face-cutter episode.

Still loving this show.

Re Will's visions...

Spoiler

Hannibal giving Will encephilitis to study how it affects his empathy is just thoroughly fucked and brilliant and even better than the 'he just wants a friend' angle they were playing up.

...and also i don't care how much it costs, i will live on the street and eat dust to afford it, but I want the costumer who does Mikkelson's suits to dress me every day for the rest of my life.


As for Alanna...

Spoiler

she is so fridge-bait by the end of this season it's sick, and mainly because that will trigger all kinds of crazy in Will.

Bare in mind that SPOILER FOR THE BOOK RED DRAGON

Spoiler

in the Red Dragon book, which is the basis for most of the tv series, Graham caught Lechter, then went on to marry some other woman

.

Point being while there's no rush and no requirement to follow the book to the letter - ie: reporter Freddie Lounds is a man in the book - in the long run Alanna is likely toast. Or on toast with a nice light pinot grigo.

[High House Dark]

Abyss, on 18 June 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

I'm still three weeks back, just saw the face-cutter episode.

Still loving this show.

Re Will's visions...

Spoiler

Hannibal giving Will encephilitis to study how it affects his empathy is just thoroughly fucked and brilliant and even better than the 'he just wants a friend' angle they were playing up.

...and also i don't care how much it costs, i will live on the street and eat dust to afford it, but I want the costumer who does Mikkelson's suits to dress me every day for the rest of my life.


As for Alanna...

Spoiler

she is so fridge-bait by the end of this season it's sick, and mainly because that will trigger all kinds of crazy in Will.

Bare in mind that SPOILER FOR THE BOOK RED DRAGON

Spoiler

in the Red Dragon book, which is the basis for most of the tv series, Graham caught Lechter, then went on to marry some other woman

.

Point being while there's no rush and no requirement to follow the book to the letter - ie: reporter Freddie Lounds is a man in the book - in the long run Alanna is likely toast. Or on toast with a nice light pinot grigo.

SERIOUSLY, ABYSS, YOU NEED TO CATCH UP, YOUUU.

AND YEAH, I WANT ALL THE SUITS. A ND THE OFFICE. AND HIS KITCHEN. AND I THINK I'VE SAID THIS ALREADY x50000.

I'm so excited for Thursday. EEEEEEEEEEE!!! Also, nbchannibal is doing a giveaway, and I WANT STUFF.

Lastly, here is a great photo of the majestic Mikkelsen, totally belongs in this thread .........

[Abyss]

High House Dark, on 18 June 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

... HIS KITCHEN. ...

That too. I could live in that kitchen if the costumer didn't bankrupt me.

[polishgenius]

The latest episode was all kinds of brilliant.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Am I the only one who gets REALLY god damn hungry when Hannibal is preparing his food?

[High House Dark]

Cocoreturns, on 19 June 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Am I the only one who gets REALLY god damn hungry when Hannibal is preparing his food?

Hehe, I always eat dinner while watching Hannibal.

So no, you are not alone. c:

[High House Dark]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE TELL ME ALL YOU OTHER ALSO SAW THE FINALE, YES???

Spoiler

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH I LOVED IT. I loved the ending, I loved the middle, I loved the beginning, I loved the WENDIGO (go check out Bryan Fuller's twitter for some REALLY awesome in-the-making shots), I loved Bedelia, I loved Hannibal's smile at the very end and Will's expression ("... the mongoose I want under the house when the snake slithers by..." oohooohoooo).

*continues to flail wildly*

[Dolmen 2.0]

Can I go on record as stating this story telling is the most incredibly memorable thing in existance. I mean creepy but so darn well done. Wow.

[polishgenius]

That was absurdly good. One of the best TV episodes I've ever seen.

Spoiler

The exchange at the end was just perfect. 'Hello, Doctor Lecter'. Cue evil grin.

But really every single scene was brilliant. Brilliant performances, brilliant scripting, brilliant visuals... everything about it was perfect. Seriously. Unbelievably. Good.

[High House Dark]

UGH, and now the wait... production for season 2 begins in August, apparently. I've already been fan-arting all over the place, but I guess I'll have to continue if I want to stay sane. c:

Spoiler

Some people are trying to theorize how Abigail is somehow not dead, but I honestly really think she is dead!!! Seriously, what? I mean, that is one hell of a curveball but... ugh, it wouldn't make sense.

ALSO, episode 1 of Season 2 will be titled "Kaiseki", which is Japanese for a multi-course meal. So now we know the names will be Japanese-cuisine-themed BUT I have to wonder if this clues us into the aforementioned love interest for Hannibal - someone based on Lady Murasaki? I honestly hope it's just someone based on her as the Hannibal Rising lore really grates against me in its sloppiness, inconsistencies, and effort to 'explain' Hannibal's actions. I like Dr. Lecter as someone who can't be explained!

[polishgenius]

Spoiler

Yeah, Abigail is definitely dead, I'm sure. I just can't see how she wouldn't be.

I'm wondering, more and more, what's going on with Lecter's psychiatrist. It seemed clear to me that she knew that Hannibal was feeding her Abigail, but she ate anyway... I'm just not sure if she's known all along or if she previously just suspected.

Also, at first glance Hannibal's intention to make Will a 'friend' would seem to have failed but given how pleased he is in the last scene, I reckon this was exactly what he intended - a person who sees him for who he is (but in a position that his accusations seemingly can't harm Hannibal).

[Abyss]

All caught up, and fuck me sideways like a chicken pot pie wherein the chicken is suspiciously tender if that wasn't some of the best episodic tv (Cable AND Network) is years.

SPOILERS SPOILERS
SPOILERS
SPOILERS
FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON AND THE HANNIBAL BOOKS AND MOVIES AND WHATEVER
SPOILERS
SPOILERS

SPOILERS


WITH A NICE CHIANTI



THE DR GIDEON EPISODE - I cannot get over how thoroughly fucked it was how Gideon sought to draw out the Chesepeake Killer, and in the end he got what he wanted but Lechter sent Will to do the job for him.

THE ABIGAIL EP was pure setup, and perhaps a bit frustrating in the way Alonna kept almost diagnosing encephalitis and the smug way Lechter kept looking like he knew she was gonna say exactly that, and the sheer wtf level of Will's visions.

Also "You made me chicken soup." was such a perfectly delivered line.

THE 2 PART FINALE - AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


Abigail... i actually fall into the Abigail is still alive camp, because that would be SUCH a great twist to have her show up, minus an ear and recovering from serious blood loss. I don't actually think Lechter was serving her to Dr du Maurier (great name btw... nice touch naming her after a popular 'elegant' cigarette). Her being dead is too obvious.

Dr dM - the wildest part was the hint that Bedelia knows what Lechter is really up to. The dialogue was SO well written that it could utterly go either way and work. The revelation regarding her attack was telling... the patient spontaneously swallowed his own tongue.... YEAH RIGHT. Total shoutback to SILENCE OF THE LAMBS.


Will - Hugh Darcy gets huge props for his acting here. The bit where he broke his own thumb to escape was shocking but made perfect sense, especially since we saw him act out Dr Gideon's escape in similar circumstances 2 eps earlier.

I kept expecting Dr Lechter to set someone else up to take the fall for Will... Dr M, Alonna, one of the lab techs, but nope, he went the distance leading to that insanely clever last scene in the cell. I was half expecting Will to be strapped to a cot in a straightjacket, wearing the bite mask.

Overall, the finale was just a brilliant wrap up of the season, tying together EVERYTHING in a way few tv shows ever manage to do.

On some level i'm worried about whether they can top this in season 2, but i'm utterly along for the ride.

[High House Dark]

Abyss, on 24 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

..........Also "You made me chicken soup." was such a perfectly delivered line..........

Honestly, HUGE SPOILERS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD IN THIS THREAD. We're on page 2, so it's ok to no longer use tags, yes?

Anyways....

Fuller confirmed the chicken soup was indeed chicken, and not people. Well, sort of decent for Hannibal, right? Except not. Ginseng and other ingredients in the soup that he mentioned are items that can boost your immune systems activity, which is NOT a good thing to do for someone overcoming an autoimmune infection/disease (like ENCEPHALITIS), as it can make it worse and/or accelerate it.

~the more you know~

[High House Dark]

Also, @Abyss, yeah I agree with you overall. I'm on the fence about Abigail (she's now "Schrodinger's Abigail," lol), but overall good recap of how I felt about the season overall, haha.

My favorite part with Dr. Gideon was you could see how HE was CREEPED OUT by Hannibal - which is hugely telling. See, Dr. Gideon was a surgeon/medical professional, and even though yes, he went around wreaking havoc by killing people left and right, he had his "reasons" (doesn't excuse him). Yet, when he witnesses Hannibal dismiss Will's seizure as "mild," while simultaneously referring to Will as his friend, you could see Dr. Gideon was just... both baffled and thinking, "holy shit, this man is a monster." As a medical professional, he could see right away something wasn't right with Will physically, and yet Hannibal is so dismissive of it.

Just, ugh, the whole contrasting your 'typical' killer with Hannibal thing.. it's so perfect. It's what Harris' novels were mostly about, how Hannibal is NOT human, he doesn't even have reasons, unlike in comparison to other killers/murderers. THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD.

And now we're on the he-ate-us. Sadness. :c

[Abyss]

High House Dark, on 24 June 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

Abyss, on 24 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

..........Also "You made me chicken soup." was such a perfectly delivered line..........

...Fuller confirmed the chicken soup was indeed chicken, and not people. Well, sort of decent for Hannibal, right? Except not. Ginseng and other ingredients in the soup that he mentioned are items that can boost your immune systems activity, which is NOT a good thing to do for someone overcoming an autoimmune infection/disease (like ENCEPHALITIS), as it can make it worse and/or accelerate it.

~the more you know~

I figured the soup was non-Cannibal since he hadn't killed anyone just prior to it, but THAT'S FRIKKIN BRILLIANT!

Honestly, i think i need a season rewatch just to catch all the subtle brilliant bits like this.

High House Dark, on 24 June 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

Also, @Abyss, yeah I agree with you overall. I'm on the fence about Abigail (she's now "Schrodinger's Abigail," lol), but overall good recap of how I felt about the season overall, haha.

HA!

...well, except for her ear....

Quote

My favorite part with Dr. Gideon was you could see how HE was CREEPED OUT by Hannibal - which is hugely telling. See, Dr. Gideon was a surgeon/medical professional, and even though yes, he went around wreaking havoc by killing people left and right, he had his "reasons" (doesn't excuse him). Yet, when he witnesses Hannibal dismiss Will's seizure as "mild," while simultaneously referring to Will as his friend, you could see Dr. Gideon was just... both baffled and thinking, "holy shit, this man is a monster." As a medical professional, he could see right away something wasn't right with Will physically, and yet Hannibal is so dismissive of it.

Tho it was a bit odd how Hannibal was doing the whole 'i don't see anyone' thing with Will, and Gid is just sitting there watching the whole time and doesn't make a play to even escape, much less attack.

If the idea was that Gid realized Lechter was Chesapeake and was cowed by him, it wasn't that clear. If the idea was that he was intrigued, it didn't quite show imnsho.

I just found it wasn't as well depicted as most things in the series where the motivations for what characters, even the killers, do tended to be clear(ish), if twisted.

Quote

Just, ugh, the whole contrasting your 'typical' killer with Hannibal thing.. it's so perfect. It's what Harris' novels were mostly about, how Hannibal is NOT human, he doesn't even have reasons, unlike in comparison to other killers/murderers. THIS SHOW IS SO GOOD. ...

The SILENCE, RED DRAGON and HANNIBAL books all delve into the point that Lechter actually has a very real, albeit sociopathic moral code. He hates 'rudeness' and picks his victims accordingly, something the show took to clever levels.

The 'experiment to see what happens' thing is also very present in SILENCE and HANNIBAL ( not so much in RED). Lechter's entire interaction with Clarice Starling is one long experiment.

Tho i thought the show did a neat twist by working in Crawford's jr agent who got close enough that Lechter took her out and used her to taunt Crawford, which puts a whole other spin on Crawford's decision to send Starling to meet Lechter in LAMBS.

[High House Dark]

Abyss, on 24 June 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

The SILENCE, RED DRAGON and HANNIBAL books all delve into the point that Lechter actually has a very real, albeit sociopathic moral code. He hates 'rudeness' and picks his victims accordingly, something the show took to clever levels.

The 'experiment to see what happens' thing is also very present in SILENCE and HANNIBAL ( not so much in RED). Lechter's entire interaction with Clarice Starling is one long experiment.

Tho i thought the show did a neat twist by working in Crawford's jr agent who got close enough that Lechter took her out and used her to taunt Crawford, which puts a whole other spin on Crawford's decision to send Starling to meet Lechter in LAMBS.

I mean, yes he has a very fucked up "code", but I think it falls in line with who he decides is "fit to live," not whether it's a matter of good or bad. I think "good" or "bad" is completely irrelevant to Lecter, and boring for him (as evidenced by his thoughts on God). i.e., ties into Lecter-as-satan/fallen angel trope - morals just dont interest him. ADDITIONALLY, he doesn't always follow this code as self-preservation always comes FIRST, no matter how much he 'likes' someone.

When I say "reason" for killing, i mean an actual justification (whether or not it excuses the person's actions). And it's why I strongly dislike Hannibal Rising - it tries to ~explain~ Lecter, or say that he transformed into a monster... I prefer the scarier idea that he just always was a monster.

[Abyss]

High House Dark, on 24 June 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

... I think "good" or "bad" is completely irrelevant to Lecter, and boring for him (as evidenced by his thoughts on God). i.e., ties into Lecter-as-satan/fallen angel trope - morals just dont interest him.

Totally.

Tho the scene in the finale where he's crying... actually CRYING to dr duM about Will and Abigail was interesting, because the notion that he would fake that as part of his mask persona it totally in keeping with the character, but the idea that he was being genuine and did was want Will as a friend and Abigail as a daughter of sorts is also valid, in the sense that he could be seeking those sort of human connections, notwithstanding his lack of care for pretty much everyone.

Quote

ADDITIONALLY, he doesn't always follow this code as self-preservation always comes FIRST, no matter how much he 'likes' someone.

When I say "reason" for killing, i mean an actual justification (whether or not it excuses the person's actions).

Absolutely. And entirely consistent with the books. The second he's threatened, his code vanishes.

Quote

And it's why I strongly dislike Hannibal Rising - it tries to ~explain~ Lecter, or say that he transformed into a monster... I prefer the scarier idea that he just always was a monster.

I disliked HANNIBAL (both) and didn't bother with any of the Lechter books and movies that followed it. RED DRAGON was a clever book and decent movie (that didn't need a remake), SILENCE was a great book and cinematic masterpiece of a movie. Nothing since then has come close up until the the tv series.

I was sceptical about the show for that reason, but DEXTER and THE FOLLOWING suggested it was possible to do a serial killer show well, so i gave it a chance and here we are.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 24 June 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

Tho the scene in the finale where he's crying... actually CRYING to dr duM about Will and Abigail was interesting, because the notion that he would fake that as part of his mask persona it totally in keeping with the character, but the idea that he was being genuine and did was want Will as a friend and Abigail as a daughter of sorts is also valid, in the sense that he could be seeking those sort of human connections, notwithstanding his lack of care for pretty much everyone.

I think he's faking it on the basis that on the occasions we've seen him show real emotion (when he's alone for example), it's been the barest hint - like in an earlier episode when he goes to his waiting room for an appointment with Will with a spring in his step then looks visibly disappointed when Will's not there; only to then be pleased when he finds Will and discovers there's an interesting reason for it. Actual tears just don't seem his type of thing.
That's not to say I don't think he regrets killing Abigail (and I think he has) - I think his apology to her in the previous episode is genuine.

But then if DuMarier knows, why would he fake it?

[High House Dark]

Abyss, on 24 June 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

I disliked HANNIBAL (both) and didn't bother with any of the Lechter books and movies that followed it. RED DRAGON was a clever book and decent movie (that didn't need a remake), SILENCE was a great book and cinematic masterpiece of a movie. Nothing since then has come close up until the the tv series.

I was sceptical about the show for that reason, but DEXTER and THE FOLLOWING suggested it was possible to do a serial killer show well, so i gave it a chance and here we are.

Yeah, Red Dragon and Hannibal were meh (the movies). I agree with you on reading Red Dragon, and I'm actually pretty fascinated with Dolarhyde as well.

GAWD I LOVE SILENCE OF THE LAMBS. So good. Claaarrriiicccceee~

polishgenius, on 24 June 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

But then if DuMarier knows, why would he fake it?

Her knowing what Hannibal is, and to what extent she knows this, is up in the air for both the viewer, and I believe for Hannibal as well. I think he suspects that she is suspicious of his true nature (having supposedly seen him do something to the patient that attacked her? and also describing him as a "well made person suit" or whatever it was), but I don't think he knows HOW much she knows. So faking some tears may still be worth it in her presence? Just a guess.

I do love DuMaurier as a character, and am super excited to hopefully see more of her. She's sooo enigmatic!!

This post has been edited by High House Dark: 24 June 2013 - 07:24 PM

[champ]

Dont have much time to post other than adding this interview...

http://uk.ign.com/ar...ext-in-season-2