[Tulas Shorn]

I want to see what Eloth has to say before voting. I do think we need to lynch one of them (Karosis or Eloth), though I too would have much rather preferred a Nimander vote before Karosis spunked over everything.

[Karosis]

Tulas Shorn, on 30 May 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

I want to see what Eloth has to say before voting. I do think we need to lynch one of them (Karosis or Eloth), though I too would have much rather preferred a Nimander vote before Karosis spunked over everything.

I would still vote Nimander, but that'd be following Eloth.

[Merrid]

Yah, Nimader has my vote too, once we clear up Karosis.

So, lynch Karosis, speed lynch Nimander? With a TL on board we could have CFs in short order.

Although actually, Nimander has more votes at the moment so if our TL will play ball he may be a better starting point.

Don't forget that we have the very rare chance to lynch people, check they aren't roled scum, bring them back. Speed lynch FTW.

I wonder if our TL thinks people have forgotten...

Vote Karosis

[Gait]

@Karosis: Why did you change your vote to Nimander, if you are so convinced that Eloth is the recruiter.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 13 hours 31 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eloth, Fener, Gait, Karosis, Kessobahn, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Omtose, Sheltatha Lore, Sorrit, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 vote Eloth ( Gait )
1 vote Sorrit ( Kessobahn )
4 votes Nimander ( Sorrit, Sheltatha Lore, Omtose, Aranatha )
2 votes Karosis ( Karosis, Merrid )


Players not voted: Ay Estos, Eloth, Fener, Gait, Kessobahn, Nimander Golit, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 30 May 2013 - 03:30 PM

[Nimander Golit]

Ok Karosis quote case. Day 1 he spams a bit very early, leaves and comes back to join in the role discussion later. Then he hovers around for a while before doing:

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I see no point in waiting around, i've come back to find the thread in a similar position.



Remove Vote



Vote Shelly



We best take advantage of having people around to discuss and pathshaper here to resolve.

The exact same thing Merrid says he wants to lynch me for, an early hammer. I'll point out, I don't think this in and of itself is scummy I just think that y'all shouldn't bitch at me for hammering when mine didn't end up counting anyways. Anyhow, after that he immediately jumps on Eloth:

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Eloth, on 29 May 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Assuming recruit is a NA, then SL was RI. So I see 2 reasons for Sir January to keep him alive. WIFOM or SL was the recruit target. Either way we're forced into lynching him again. If we don't on the assumption that keeping him alive is a well-timed shot at spending another day talking about him, he becomes prime suspect to be recruited night 2. Welcome other ideas on that.

Those 2 one hour shifts yesterday bother me.

We know Shelly is innocent. Fact. He was lynched and wasn't scum. He couldn't have been recruited because he was lynched. What the Fuck is this.

vote eloth

Even if Shelly was recruited tonight then we wouldn't lynch him because he is not scum.

He will proceed to tunnel vision Eloth until jumping onto me. Now something interesting:
Sorrit, who has previously commented very little, jumps into the thread and a) insta distances from Karo and takes advantage of people's hate boner for me to lay down an early vote.

Sorrit, on 29 May 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

I don't like Karo personally. Just finished reading over everything, and I got the impression that he twists words or deliberately misunderstands posts to build cases. I didn't see any merit in voting Shelly obviously, not that my busy-ness has allowed me to do much else than try to keep up.

Other really questionable individuals in my book include Nimander for fishing for town roles and Eloth for dropping votes and acting like it wasn't a big deal (votes without explanations are careless if not suspicious; assuming people know your motivations is like assuming people read the OP).

Right now of those three, I am leaning Nimander (and will review him again to confirm my suspicions).

Vote Nimander.

This sudden interest from an otherwise very low poster leads me to believe that he was recruited last night and is distancing from his master, Karosis.
Karosis then comes on and distances from Sorrit using the words "self preservation" against someone who has taken virtually no heat from anyone except Kesso.

Karosis, on 30 May 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

So I see self preservation from Sorrit and Eloth is still wanting to vote Shelly. So, although I can see where people are coming from in terms of Nimander, I don't think these two players are trustworthy. I could definitely see them as scum 1 and scum 2.

Between these 2 posts Omtose has brought me to 3 votes. The very next post is Karosis going from Eloth/Sorrit suspicions to suddenly hopping on in what would be the dead center of a successful lynch train, a place where scum love to hide and at a time that makes mine the only actual train for low posters and lazy players to quickly observe. The funny thing here is that he sort of defends me WHILE VOTING FOR ME. Just so that if public opinion turns he can say he never actually wanted me lynched in the first place.

Karosis, on 30 May 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

First off I don't mind voting for Nimander for his calmness. For not defending himself.

Remove vote

Vote Nimander

He hasn't defended himself at all, and talked about town roles. Let me go check on something..





Now all of these people spoke of roles before Nimander.

Tennes, on 28 May 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

So you know a recruiter already? You must have a good role!

Sheltatha Lore, on 28 May 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think their recruiting mechanic would be once a night. Because they don't have the traditional NK of scum, they should have something that removes one town every night so that they won't be too weak and this game won't take forever.
Of course that would be OP if used against a normal town, so we have some town roles...
I mean other alternatives are not really acceptable are they? if the recruit action was once every two nights then the scum team would have been the weaker team during night and that is just silly.

Tulas Shorn, on 28 May 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I agree on once per night recruitment ability being likely. There may be other mitigating factors, though - such as some roles potentially taking longer/more than one attempt to recruit? This game strikes me as one which very much needs careful mod/creator balancing in order to work properly, otherwise one or the other side could become OP way too easily.

Aranatha, on 28 May 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

As Shelly says, and as I quoted before as well. Furthermore, we have a vig, a guard and an undisclosed role.
All specifics on what the Timelords do can be found on page 2 or so of the subforum in (I think) the spoiler thread for mafia 97.

Honestly, this is just facepalm territory.

Tulas Shorn, on 28 May 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

I really don't think the scum TL could kill. Leaving aside the fact that the roles (aside from the one undisclosed town role) have been named, it wouldn't make any sense to give them an NK ability. The scum winning conditions are to gain a majority, NOT kill town. As I said earlier, they seem more like a cult than standard scum.

Kessobahn, on 28 May 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

All caught up. I think it's dangerous to make the assumption that the scum faction can't kill. That being said, we only have to wait till a few nights pass to find out. Personally, I don't think that they will have the kill ability as a scum that can move time, has NK's and a partner who recruits... well, that seems a bit over powered for a vig, guard, TL and 1-2 unspecified roles to combat.

These are all about roles in some way. The discussion was there so I don't think discussing roles is a bad thing. Town and scum roles were both discussd and it gives us a clearer head when we are looking for things. That being said I'd still like to see what Nimander has to say. So i'm leaving my vote there for now.

Then out of the blue, with no prompting whatsoever, a fake reveal.

Karosis, on 30 May 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

I guarded Eloth last night and it was succesful.

And finally, most recently, He self votes. Because why not I guess?

Karosis, on 30 May 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Well I don't know Eloth is scum. I am putting what I know with what information I have. I know he tried an action last night. Why would the vig use his vig? I don't know what the undisclosed role is. The only person who would definitely want to do an action last night would be the recruiter. Combine that with Eloth's play yesterday and his accusations today I really do think he is recruiter.


remove Vote



Vote karosis



Good plan merrid.



That leaves a free night of recruitment though.

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

[Nimander Golit]

Also another thing to consider is Omtose's play. He's posted less than 20 times this game, don't know the exact number but its really low, but has sat on both Shelly's train and mine.

Omtose, on 30 May 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 30 May 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

Hello thread. I see there's some people casting aspersions upon my good name. Seems pretty weak frankly. I don't read thoroughly? Perhaps that's true. If I thought I needed to defend myself I would try to make an effort but my internet cut out this afternoon and though I got it back it's become very intermittent. For now I'll trust level heads to prevail and will log in from the library as soon as I can get there tomorrow.

"Doesn't read good", blames internet connection for not defending/posting, self proclaims "good name" and tries to inspire feeling of trust by implying that if we don't we are not "level headed". Subliminal implications and outsourcing blame.

Vote Nimander Golit

And since I see my vote was erased again
vote Karosis

[Tulas Shorn]

Karosis is currently 3rd choice lynch for me. Considering the way it's gone down, I tend to believe his guard reveal (or, at least, can't fathom why one of the two main scum would choose to do it in that way and reveal as something which would be easily tested).

But then there's the choice of lynching Karosis in order to prevent the fool from being recruited...at least for another day (unless of course he has already been recruited? That's only just crossed my mind). But in that case, how do we know that if Eloth is not scum, that they're not someone, like the vig, who we even more want to protect from being recruited?

This is why I think we need to hold off doing anything until we hear what Eloth has to say.

[Aranatha]

Quote

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

And since this player is according to you scum from the beginning, thus roled (and likely the recruiter since recruit Sorrit knows him), he explodes on thread to completely undo his chances at victory while his day 1 target Eloth (also the guy he's framing now) as well as you (whatever you may be in this scenario, but I guess you'll claim RI) are ahead of him in the lynch line-up.


Very convincing.

[Aranatha]

In other news, I have a team building activity day tomorrow. That means probably rock climbing or other active outdoors stuff and that will definately hinder my ability to read and post - quite likely grinding it into non-existence.

[Karosis]

Remove vote



Vote Nimander



I really do have to go but will be back.

[Tulas Shorn]

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

And since this player is according to you scum from the beginning, thus roled (and likely the recruiter since recruit Sorrit knows him), he explodes on thread to completely undo his chances at victory while his day 1 target Eloth (also the guy he's framing now) as well as you (whatever you may be in this scenario, but I guess you'll claim RI) are ahead of him in the lynch line-up.


Very convincing.

I was essentially going to say this same thing. It is not a convincing case considering what's just happened on thread.

[Sheltatha Lore]

When I saw a train building on Karo, I started salivating I was so happy.
But now that Nimander is trying so hard to lynch Karosis I'm having doubts.
The Guard reveal sounds like a lie to me. I think we should wait for Eloth to come on and comment.

[Aranatha]

I agree that Eloth's contribution will be extremely important- but I personally have no clue what they will say and how much it will weigh into my decision making on this subject.

Remove vote.


(if a TL hadn't erased it yet).

And what makes me most suspicious of all, is this constant time manipulation to erase votes on Karosis. Which TL - and why?

[Tulas Shorn]

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I agree that Eloth's contribution will be extremely important- but I personally have no clue what they will say and how much it will weigh into my decision making on this subject.

Remove vote.


(if a TL hadn't erased it yet).

And what makes me most suspicious of all, is this constant time manipulation to erase votes on Karosis. Which TL - and why?

I think it stopped after Karosis revealed he was a guard? Perhaps it was the town TL trying to tell us not to vote this guy (if the TL knows his underlings). Or maybe the scum TL just fucking around trying to get a player in trouble and spread yet more WIFOM. And, if so, I got to say it kinda worked.


Edit: In the same vein, it could be trying to draw attention away from Nimander, which I think may be likely. Though again it brings us round to the question of which TL would be doing it.

This post has been edited by Tulas Shorn: 30 May 2013 - 04:01 PM

[Tennes]

My time is pretty limited today so I'm going to try and get caught up. Two quick thoughts:

1) if scum don't like the way we are voting they may speed up time to get another recruit without us getting a lynch.
2) the Karosis/Shelly spat still stands out from day 1, and in hindsight I think that swayed votes Shelly's way.

[Nimander Golit]

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

And since this player is according to you scum from the beginning, thus roled (and likely the recruiter since recruit Sorrit knows him), he explodes on thread to completely undo his chances at victory while his day 1 target Eloth (also the guy he's framing now) as well as you (whatever you may be in this scenario, but I guess you'll claim RI) are ahead of him in the lynch line-up.


Very convincing.

Why would an innocent player blow up this way then?

[Aranatha]

Nimander Golit, on 30 May 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

And since this player is according to you scum from the beginning, thus roled (and likely the recruiter since recruit Sorrit knows him), he explodes on thread to completely undo his chances at victory while his day 1 target Eloth (also the guy he's framing now) as well as you (whatever you may be in this scenario, but I guess you'll claim RI) are ahead of him in the lynch line-up.

Very convincing.

Why would an innocent player blow up this way then?

If the reveal is true?
After all, he's been after Eloth both days this game - you can't blame him for being wishywashy.

[Aranatha]

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Nimander Golit, on 30 May 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 30 May 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

So lets sum up here. We have a player who has lurked around, contradicted himself, jumped on and off of trains just looking for a kill, and gone out of his way to create WIFOM. He's thrown the thread into complete disarray and, both as a result and in conjunction with my earlier statements, I thoroughly and completely believe that Karosis is original Scum. I will continue to vote his way until the vote holds.

And since this player is according to you scum from the beginning, thus roled (and likely the recruiter since recruit Sorrit knows him), he explodes on thread to completely undo his chances at victory while his day 1 target Eloth (also the guy he's framing now) as well as you (whatever you may be in this scenario, but I guess you'll claim RI) are ahead of him in the lynch line-up.

Very convincing.

Why would an innocent player blow up this way then?

If the reveal is true?
After all, he's been after Eloth both days this game - you can't blame him for being wishywashy.

Wth which I mean that his general tune is consistent.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 12 hours 41 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eloth, Fener, Gait, Karosis, Kessobahn, Merrid, Nimander Golit, Omtose, Sheltatha Lore, Sorrit, Tennes, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 vote Eloth ( Gait )
1 vote Sorrit ( Kessobahn )
4 votes Nimander ( Sorrit, Sheltatha Lore, Omtose, Karosis )
2 votes Karosis ( Merrid, Nimander Golit )


Players not voted: Aranatha, Ay Estos, Eloth, Fener, Gait, Kessobahn, Tennes, Tulas Shorn